Phil Collins: New music/tour/Genesis shows 'possible'

[Brian Griffin]

There's absolutely NO WAY they can play a concert that can even remotely approach what Steve has tastefully done with GR2.

If for nothing else than by virtue of it being "them" actually playing, it would not only approach, but likely surpass it for me personally

YMHYV

BG

[Patelena396]

If for nothing else than by virtue of it being "them" actually playing, it would not only approach, but likely surpass it for me personally

YMHYV

BG

I agree. Hackett did a nice job, but nothing would match the actual musicians performing he material. Plus, I think the idea of them not doing a good job performing the material is seriously underestimating how well they would do. Except for the Collins drumming factor that is. The bottom line though is the idea of a reunion of a Gabriel fronted Genesis is slim to none at this point. I will be more than happy with a Phil, Mike and Tony reunion. I love the old classics, but I don't need to wallow in them. I want new music.

[N_Singh]

I agree. Hackett did a nice job, but nothing would match the actual musicians performing he material. Plus, I think the idea of them not doing a good job performing the material is seriously underestimating how well they would do. .

Could not disagree more with your first point on a general level. Who has performed the best version of Autumn leaves? The great songs are always open to interpretation. The fact that we only look for authenticity in terms of the original performers performing the songs is indicative of the fact that music and songs have really going down downhill.

But hey, if people are hankering for invisible touch and in too deep, I hope they enjoy it.

[JJ88]

Mike must be doing fairly well with the Mechanics stuff. He continues to tour and is soon releasing a best of album that contains new material. As for the stadiums vs theater thing, I am not sure that the Mechanics were ever a full blown stadium band and stadium shows were more of an occasional thing or in support of a bigger band. I would agree that M&TM was a commercial project, but I certainly think they recorded some very good stuff. Paul Young and Paul Carrack were about as good as two singers could be and the band created some quality pop rock IMO. I definitely don't think they warrant a slag off. I am not as happy with the two new singers, but I understand Mike moving forward with a fresh start. Paul Carrack has moved on and Paul Young passed away. Regardless of what one thinks of the last Mechanics album, at least Mike made an attempt to record some new material. I didn't think it was a terrible album, but Paul and Paul were missed.

I meant an arena not a stadium, my mistake, sorry. They've certainly had their share of good songs- I like 'Silent Running', 'The Living Years' and a few other things- and I agree about the quality of those two singers, but they did quite a few dull ballads and unconvincing 'rockers'. This is a band that, for me, at their worst (something like 'Get Up', for instance) define the term 'dad rock' mentioned on another thread. I much, much prefer Genesis' own excursions into pop/rock in the 80s.

I love Genesis and most everything related to them...but I draw the line there. They are an act where I feel I know what a new album is going to sound like. Phil's solo stuff, even later on, has more surprises- one of his last recordings 'Tearing and Breaking' written with John Martyn (a good friend of Phil's) had an interesting repeated vocal arrangement, with Phil doing all the harmonies. The much-maligned 'No Jacket Required' has some good moments- 'Long Long Way To Go', 'Take Me Home' etc.

I remain mystified, Rufus, as to why you slag off Genesis' later output yet like Mike and the Mechanics?? I've always found a lot to like on all the later albums...the one I find the biggest struggle is CAS, to be honest, but even that had its moments.

[Patelena396]

Could not disagree more with your first point on a general level. Who has performed the best version of Autumn leaves? The great songs are always open to interpretation. The fact that we only look for authenticity in terms of the original performers performing the songs is indicative of the fact that music and songs have really going down downhill.

But hey, if people are hankering for invisible touch and in too deep, I hope they enjoy it.

I don't think anyone said that they are hankering for Invisible Touch or In too Deep (though I will admit to a certain fondness for ITD). I am not sure why you would go there conclusively as I think Collins, Banks and Rutherford are capable and would deliver some more challenging material. For every Invisible Touch, there is a 'Domino', 'Fading Lights', 'Driving the last spike'. Etc. With all due respect, the 30 year argument of pulling out Invisible Touch as a definitive argument is as stale as can be.

[Jondon4]

Hackett described a year ago during a Q & A the efforts he went through to get the others to join him in revisiting their music and did the Genesis revisited albums because he got tired of waiting for them. He was quite open about the fact that he hoped it would convince them to get back together for a reunion.

[Patelena396]

Hackett described a year ago during a Q & A the efforts he went through to get the others to join him in revisiting their music and did the Genesis revisited albums because he got tired of waiting for them. He was quite open about the fact that he hoped it would convince them to get back together for a reunion.

Not saying it is a bad thing, but Steve H has always been the one who seemed to be most interested in a reunion of the Gabriel era band. In fairness though, he may be the one who has the most to gain from such a reunion. Steve has a fine and respectable career going, but he never reached the popularity that Gabriel & Collins era Genesis had. Whereas the other members are find of the progressive era of the band, they don't seem quite as eager to revisit it.

[Scott Bails]

Bottom line is that even if they were to get together, Hackett's "Revisited" setlist I'm sure is much more satisfying to a prog fan than anything Banks/Collins/Rutherford would come up with.

And all of the music was performed in the correct key.

[Patelena396]

Bottom line is that even if they were to get together, Hackett's "Revisited" setlist I'm sure is much more satisfying to a prog fan than anything Banks/Collins/Rutherford would come up with.

And all of the music was performed in the correct key.

Hackett's Revisited was fine and all that I needed in terms of a trip back. I would welcome and prefer new music from Collins, Banks and Rutherford. Commercial or otherwise. .

[2ndsout]

Everybody seem so Stingy in this thread towards Collins, but I don't see anyone criticizing Gabriel over the SO album.... Just saying, for what it's worth when it comes to Solo Material- for every Invisible Touch, there is an equal Sledgehammer and Big Time.

Just saying.


I am sure that those in the Gabriel camp are just as tired of those tracks as some of the old school Genesis fans are tired of Invisible Touch, In Too Deep, etc.


Just food for thought- because as you know, SO does have many stronger tracks then just Sledgehammer and Big Time, but anyone who was raised on MTV, that is all they know by Gabriel as the only thing broadstream crowds know by Genesis is Invisible Touch, or Collins being known for Sussudio, et. al.

[JKL2000]

I found the documentary about that tour fascinating though.

Is that the one where that concert designer or whoever he is proposes his big idea to the band, of them being on a huge platform that goes up like a ferris wheel, with "storyboards" and everything prepared, and then Tony says he's afraid of heights so it's nixed right away? I thought that was pretty hilarious (though I felt for the guy), and interesting.

[Progatron]

what he said at the Genesis pre-tour press conference for the 07 tour: "I left the band, Genesis is these two guys" (pointing to Tony and Mike). By saying that at that conference, he was basically doing two things:
1) he was being humble and acknowledging, and announcing/emphasizing that this 07 reunion with Tony and Mike is strictly a tour, not a claim that Genesis have officially switched to the Tony/Mike/Phil lineup

That's true, although it is now six years on, and who knows how his mind may have changed?

PC brought up Australia and SA and didn't bring up USA, it sounds like he'd be happy enough with simply continuing the 07 tour the way it was (without Hackett)…by simply taking the same show to two new places. It's conceivable for Phil/Mike/Tony/Steve to get together to sell to the Genesis management the idea of a tour of strictly pre-ATTWT material with Hackett in it (with or without PG) because it looks like the recent Hackett tour proved that there would be significant audience interest in such design

Two things here: First, I found it strange that he claimed to have never played Australia or South America. Certainly he didn't mean with Genesis, since they have played both continents. Perhaps he meant he's never played there with his own band? As for doing a tour with either strictly pre-ATTWT material or at least a good chunk of it, utilizing Steve, there's absolutely no doubt that there would be major audience interest, and tickets would sell out even at high cost. And I'm positive Banks would be on board. But my question still stands: Would Phil and Mike want to play that material again?

[progeezer]

I'll never stop listening to Trespass through W & W and have no desire to listen to anything at all after W & W, so, frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.

I'll leave you all to your salivating.

[Patelena396]

I'll never stop listening to Trespass through W & W and have no desire to listen to anything at all after W & W, so, frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.

I'll leave you all to your salivating.

I guess my initial response is to say "your loss", but it does beg the question as to why? I see you praising some bands on here who aren't completely dissimilar to some of the stuff that Genesis did after W&W. Why be understanding of other bands who mix Prog with pop, but be so distainful of later Genesis? I ask because I see a fair amount of that on PE and it never made sense to me. Seriously, not trying to be a smart aleck as I am legitimately curious. Why heap praise on a band like District 97 who very successfully blends pop and Prog with a singer who was on American Idol, but write off and entire era of a band fronted by Phil Collins? There seems to endless bashing of the Genesis hits on here, but the band never stopped making more progressive and IMO, very entertaining tunes. Gotta admit that I am befuddled by people slagging off a whole era of Genesis, but falling all over themselves to praise other bands who wear their pop Prog badge proudly. I too like some of these bands, but I also like later Genesis. I am sure some people will say that it is the songwriting of the newer bands, but I am sure even the members of many of the bands in question would be hard pressed to challenge the songwriting talents of a guy like Tony Banks. Anyway, just always a bit mystified by the proud, IMO indignant, stance by some Prog fans to state at any possible opportunity, that they won't listen to latter day Genesis, Period. My personal opinion is that the "Phil Collins ruined Genesis" stigma is strong with some people. It has continued for 30+ years. For me, hense your comment, I will absolutely and happily salivate at the idea of Phil, Tony and Mike writing and recording new material.

[Yanks2014]

but I don't see anyone criticizing Gabriel over the SO album.... Just saying, for what it's worth when it comes to Solo Material- for every Invisible Touch, there is an equal Sledgehammer and Big Time.
Just saying.

I think those are two great songs, especially "Big Time". Terrific album all around, even if it's PG's most accessible album in his catalog.

[arise_shine]

I think this is great news. I personally would love a chance to see Genesis live (missed them in ought-seven). But only if Phil can actually drum and/or sing. And keep a thick skin from all the nasty commentary from random Internet punters like us.

[Yaman Aksu]

That's true, although it is now six years on, and who knows how his mind may have changed?



Two things here: First, I found it strange that he claimed to have never played Australia or South America. Certainly he didn't mean with Genesis, since they have played both continents. Perhaps he meant he's never played there with his own band? As for doing a tour with either strictly pre-ATTWT material or at least a good chunk of it, utilizing Steve, there's absolutely no doubt that there would be major audience interest, and tickets would sell out even at high cost. And I'm positive Banks would be on board. But my question still stands: Would Phil and Mike want to play that material again?

My post was pretty much just to contribute a few quick words about what PC has said and leave it at that for my part -- I don't count myself among fans on alert, let alone high alert, about *any* of the various possibilities, and accordingly I doubt I'll write more posts about this. Not really waiting for what PC has more to say, either. My Genesis listening has been a little amount throughout say the last 10 years but I did see one show at that 07 tour (mostly because it was going to be my first Genesis concert) which turned out to be a lot of fun, and the fact is, before or after that tour I looked at only little amount of media/internet content about that tour, such as PE -- and somehow I stumbled on that press conference I was talking about (and watched only some of it). Some youtube videos from that 07 tour, and the one show I went to, were all fun. I haven't listened to all of Hackett's recent versions but I enjoyed the ones I heard except the unpleasant Kershaw vocal performance on Lamia (I only know its live Hammersmith version) which I think is unfortunate for Rothery since that's the only one song he's playing on -- I'll check out its non-live version on the studio CD when I buy it. In recent years the Genesis I've heard the most is W&W and ATTWT (probably 4-5 spins each in last 10 years), which I had very little experience with before. I enjoyed both of those albums a lot, except a few of the melancholic parts….so if a new tour brings some tunes (from those two albums) not played live since say the 80s, that would really be the most interesting aspect for me really in a new tour. Otherwise I can go get the Rome DVD --- which I haven't even seen in its entirety -- or I can go back to some other past recording from them (live or otherwise). BTW, finally, I also have no idea if or when they played Australia or South America. Cheers.

[Progatron]

I also have no idea if or when they played Australia or South America. Cheers.

Yep, Australia on the Invisible Touch tour, where they made the unusual choice of resurrecting "Your Own Special Way", utilizing a string section at the Sydney Entertainment Center. And South America on at least one tour, in 1977 with Steve.

I didn't notice the poor vocals from Kershaw, I should watch that again. He previously sang with Tony Banks on his Still album. I remember his hit song "Wouldn't It Be Good" from many years ago, always liked that one.

[progeezer]

I guess my initial response is to say "your loss", but it does beg the question as to why? I see you praising some bands on here who aren't completely dissimilar to some of the stuff that Genesis did after W&W. Why be understanding of other bands who mix Prog with pop, but be so distainful of later Genesis? I ask because I see a fair amount of that on PE and it never made sense to me. Seriously, not trying to be a smart aleck as I am legitimately curious. Why heap praise on a band like District 97 who very successfully blends pop and Prog with a singer who was on American Idol, but write off and entire era of a band fronted by Phil Collins? There seems to endless bashing of the Genesis hits on here, but the band never stopped making more progressive and IMO, very entertaining tunes. Gotta admit that I am befuddled by people slagging off a whole era of Genesis, but falling all over themselves to praise other bands who wear their pop Prog badge proudly. I too like some of these bands, but I also like later Genesis. I am sure some people will say that it is the songwriting of the newer bands, but I am sure even the members of many of the bands in question would be hard pressed to challenge the songwriting talents of a guy like Tony Banks. Anyway, just always a bit mystified by the proud, IMO indignant, stance by some Prog fans to state at any possible opportunity, that they won't listen to latter day Genesis, Period. My personal opinion is that the "Phil Collins ruined Genesis" stigma is strong with some people. It has continued for 30+ years. For me, hense your comment, I will absolutely and happily salivate at the idea of Phil, Tony and Mike writing and recording new material.

I don't mean to be too succinct here, Pat, but rather than write a dissertation let me just state the obvious without losing my objectivity (a lost art in these parts): Bands like D97 and many others you and I both find appealing to our ears, appeal to my ears. Genesis prog-pop doesn't.

[Patelena396]

I don't mean to be too succinct here, Pat, but rather than write a dissertation let me just state the obvious without losing my objectivity (a lost art in these parts): Bands like D97 and many others you and I both find appealing to our ears, appeal to my ears. Genesis prog-pop doesn't.

Fair enough.

[Yaman Aksu]

He previously sang with Tony Banks on his Still album. I remember his hit song "Wouldn't It Be Good" from many years ago, always liked that one.

I really enjoy the ones on Still he sings on and also his own one or two tunes from the 80s I've heard. All of which happen to be studio recordings. Something happens to his voice in live performance, the ones I've heard at least. For example, at Live Aid and recent Hackett show. My opinion is that there is a certain slightly unpleasant quality to his voice that is not unpleasant during a studio session but becomes more noticeable during a live performance -- that's just my opinion about how he sings.

[bill g]

Everybody seem so Stingy in this thread towards Collins, but I don't see anyone criticizing Gabriel over the SO album.... Just saying, for what it's worth when it comes to Solo Material- for every Invisible Touch, there is an equal Sledgehammer and Big Time.

Just saying.


I am sure that those in the Gabriel camp are just as tired of those tracks as some of the old school Genesis fans are tired of Invisible Touch, In Too Deep, etc.


Just food for thought- because as you know, SO does have many stronger tracks then just Sledgehammer and Big Time, but anyone who was raised on MTV, that is all they know by Gabriel as the only thing broadstream crowds know by Genesis is Invisible Touch, or Collins being known for Sussudio, et. al.

Yes, I see your point, and I'll grant you that. Plus Gabriel has been by far the least interested in a reunion, with Mike Rutherford 2nd. Tony was the only one other that Hackett of course that seemed willing. Gabe's solo output I think is good, but I don't listen to it as often as, say, Tony's, because for me there is more subtle compositional complexity, and curious chord changes with Tony's albums and I typically get more mileage out of them.

[Patelena396]

Yes, I see your point, and I'll grant you that. Plus Gabriel has been by far the least interested in a reunion, with Mike Rutherford 2nd. Tony was the only one other that Hackett of course that seemed willing. Gabe's solo output I think is good, but I don't listen to it as often as, say, Tony's, because for me there is more subtle compositional complexity, and curious chord changes with Tony's albums and I typically get more mileage out of them.

At one point before his health issues , Phil seemed pretty on board with the idea as well. The 07 tour happened as a result of the initial idea of a lamb tour.

[ThomasKDye]

Genesis prog-pop doesn't.

You know, any time there's a thread about post-Anoraknophobia Marillion I fight the temptation to go in and say "Marbles was the worst piece of shit I ever heard. I'll pass."

Why do others not fight that urge?

[Yanks2014]

You know, any time there's a thread about post-Anoraknophobia Marillion I fight the temptation to go in and say "Marbles was the worst piece of shit I ever heard. I'll pass."
Why do others not fight that urge?

Because that was a rather tame comment? Just curious, you really feel that way about "Marbles"? And if so, does that include "Ocean Cloud"?