Should Camel re-record the Snow Goose?

[Rael-Imperial]

I read with great interest in October’s Prog magazine an article about Camel; one of my favourite bands from the 70s and thankfully still going.

One aspect of the interview with Andy Latimer was the re-recording of the Snow Goose album, where he will be keeping to the original as much as possible but adding some new material. He says he's "trying to improve it".

I bought this on vinyl back in the 70s (showing my age now), replacing it later with the CD version. I think classic prog albums like the Snow Goose should be left alone (except possibly re-mastered in 5-1 sound etc). You wouldn’t want to hear the Dark Side of the Moon or Sgt Pepper’s with additional new bits thrown in – just wouldn’t be the same.

I think Andy Latimer should spend the effort producing a Snow Goose 2 album with the odd reference back to material in the 1st album. I can’t see me buying a re-worked version after cherishing the original for nearly 40 years.

So what do other Camel fans think? Am I being a bit harsh?

I will be playing an early 70s Camel track in my Gairloch radio program, “A to Z through prog infested waters”, Monday the 25th Nov at 10pm (UK time) and repeated the following Friday at the same time. You can listen at
www.2lr.co.uk

Cheers,
Alan

[flowerking]

I would prefer that Andy spend his time first recording the Snow Goose live performance for release on DVD and working on new albums. But I wouldn't oppose a new rendition of the Snow Goose being released. Rick Wakeman did this recently with Journey to the Centre of the Earth and I thought his new version had some nice additions. I would probably prefer the old Snow Goose to the new, but I would support Andy if he were to do a new version by buying it and playing it occasionally.

[ChrisXymphonia]

I think Andy Latimer should spend the effort producing a Snow Goose 2 album with the odd reference back to material in the 1st album. I can’t see me buying a re-worked version after cherishing the original for nearly 40 years.

You are a bit behind on things as he has already spent the effort and the album has been released now, while it was first available for sale at the recent series of gigs he did celebrating his return from 'retirement' and the legacy of The Snow Goose and Peter Bardens.

[Sunlight Caller]

Well it's done and dusted, and I bought a copy at the recent Barbican show. I was not especially in favour of a new version, and to be honest it is very faithful to the treasured original, and the additional segments fit seamlessly and do not upset the flow in the slightest. I bought it out of love and support for the band and as a celebration of the return of Andy to the live stage, anything we can do to keep them functioning as a unit seems a small price to pay. They did record / video the show too, so a DVD must be in the offing, and I'll snap that up too, as it was a sensation, emotionally charged occasion.

[JKL2000]

It's odd that it still isn't available direct Fromm Camel Productions yet. I guess they're waiting till the tour is over. Have been holding out to order from them.

[Iceman]

As you've probably gathered you've dropped the ball on this as it has already been recorded and was made available to buy at the recent concerts. Just checked the website and it's now available to buy - http://www.camelproductions-store.com/cds-18-c.asp.

I haven't heard it yet but attended the London concert and it was noticable where changes to the original recording have been incorporated. Well worth a listen to if the live version is anything to go by.

[calyx]

the additional segments fit seamlessly and do not upset the flow in the slightest.

I don't really agree. None of them sounds really necessary, and most are rather clumsily inserted - usually it's "play the familiar theme", then "insert the new bit" (very harmonically static and only vaguely related to the track in question) and then "play the familiar theme once more". I don't realy see the point, frankly. But to be honest, it's pleasant all the same, and a couple of them I quite like.

Now, the issue of whether there's a point in re-doing the album... I haven't read the interview referenced above, but I don't really see an artistic justification to doing this. The only justification, and it's probably not a minor one, is that this new version allows Camel to regain ownership of their most famous album, the original version of which probably earns them a small fraction per CD sold compared to the new version. Sadly for them, it will probably never sell anywhere near as much. On a more mundane level, it was nice to have something for sale on the recent tour, and I happily came away with my copy and enjoy listening to it (the t-shirts were outrageously priced on the other hand - 25 pounds apiece ?!?). It's a nice way to wait for the next proper album.

[battema]

Got it from Ken G over the weekend. I am comparing it less to the original than some of the later works, in that the production quality is rather improved IMHO (especially the sound of the drums).

As a document to what Camel can do in 2013, it's great. Never going to replace the original but it is a nice alternate viewpoint on a classic album. If it also acts as a revenue generator toward future recording work, then all the better.

[Rand Kelly]

In response to the header: That ship sailed or in this case Snow Goose,lol.

[HONDO]

I don't really agree. None of them sounds really necessary, and most are rather clumsily inserted - usually it's "play the familiar theme", then "insert the new bit" (very harmonically static and only vaguely related to the track in question) and then "play the familiar theme once more". I don't realy see the point, frankly. But to be honest, it's pleasant all the same, and a couple of them I quite like.

Now, the issue of whether there's a point in re-doing the album... I haven't read the interview referenced above, but I don't really see an artistic justification to doing this. The only justification, and it's probably not a minor one, is that this new version allows Camel to regain ownership of their most famous album, the original version of which probably earns them a small fraction per CD sold compared to the new version. Sadly for them, it will probably never sell anywhere near as much. On a more mundane level, it was nice to have something for sale on the recent tour, and I happily came away with my copy and enjoy listening to it (the t-shirts were outrageously priced on the other hand - 25 pounds apiece ?!?). It's a nice way to wait for the next proper album.

I went to the Barbican show and purchased both a CD and a tour T-shirt for 25 pounds, I thought that was a good deal. There was a merch table just outside the main venue in the lobby and was selling both as a package deal. I would have paid double that just to support this amazing come back and any future endeavours that Camel may have.

[Sunlight Caller]

I don't really agree. None of them sounds really necessary...

I can't really disagree with you either! "Seamless" was probably just me being enthusiastic! I'll never play it as much as the original, but it is a well crafted, beautifully sounding production, and as I said before, it's good to support the band.

I also didn't pick up a T-shirt, but regret it now, and £25 is pretty standard price at London gigs, so it's not too unreasonable. There's always the next tour

[Dodie]

Am I being a bit harsh?

In this particular case, yes, you are.
Mind you, I wouldn't really compare 'The Snow Goose' to 'Sgt. Pepper' or 'Dark Side of the Moon', as I don't think the album functions that way.

Also, I think it's fairly typical for some folks to have strong views against this without having actually heard it yet. I bought my copy when I saw Camel play in Manchester last month, and I've listened to it several times. Andy Latimer's done a nice job of expanding some of the pastoral moody sections (I don't think his remarks in Prog should be taken quite so much out of context), and the flavour of the best bits of the original is all there (only with arguably improved keyboard sounds and a slightly less fussy style of drumming, perhaps).

I enjoy it a lot, as I've always enjoyed the original version a lot too. When there are several authorised live versions (whether complete or partial) out there, why not a new studio version featuring the modern-day incarnation of the band? Nobody is trying to replace the old one, and I'm exceedingly happy to be able to support Latimer making any kind of new recording.

Moreover, anyone thinking Latimer is going to get rich by doing this is, frankly, kidding themselves. I see the new 2013 Snow Goose album rather as a gently cathartic way for Latimer to get back into recording in the studio with Colin Bass, Denis Clement and Guy LeBlanc, and that the CD is a benign warm-up for the new album promised for next year (all being well). And, it has to be said yet again, that the gig I attended was stunningly fantastic, and I've got no problem listening to this band playing the material as well as having the old original at my fingertips. It's not like I have to choose between them.

Lastly, Snow Goose 2 really doesn't seem a good idea - Paul Gallico's short story hardly lends itself to a sequel. :-)

[Splicer]

Greedo shoots first.

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

I guess since "Camel" is only one original member now, he can do anything he likes.

I think The Snow Goose without Bardens and Ward is pointless, but Andy is free to do as he pleases

[Patelena396]

I guess since "Camel" is only one original member now, he can do anything he likes.

I think The Snow Goose without Bardens and Ward is pointless, but Andy is free to do as he pleases

If it is not pointless for Latimer to tour as Camel and play 'The Snow Goose' live, why is it pointless for him to re-record it in the studio? Perhaps it was a way for him to get the juices going again. Regardless, I agree with you that he can do as he pleases.

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

If it is not pointless for Latimer to tour as Camel and play 'The Snow Goose' live, why is it pointless for him to re-record it in the studio?

Because Bardens and Ward gave the work its soul and Latimer was a *part* of that soul, not the whole soul of the work. Without Bardens and Ward the work will not retain its original soul.

[Reginod]

I wouldn't mind hearing it, and wouldn't balk at owning it, and may indeed even pick it up at some point, but I'm not especially enthusiastic about it, either, and it isn't a priority. It's Latimer's thing, and its a done deal, and he can indeed do what he pleases (as can any of these older guys still kicking around) so what I think about it was never relevant.

I'm more interested in Camel doing a new new album. As I understand one is in the works so that is cool.

It would also be cool if they would come play somewhere that I could attend but I guess that probably won't happen.

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

of the album in question (the original that is)
which is the best sounding of the remastered versions? Decca version London version or Universal version?

[Squigelyfox]

Because Bardens and Ward gave the work its soul and Latimer was a *part* of that soul, not the whole soul of the work. Without Bardens and Ward the work will not retain its original soul.

And Ferguson. Don't forget Doug!

[Patelena396]

Because Bardens and Ward gave the work its soul and Latimer was a *part* of that soul, not the whole soul of the work. Without Bardens and Ward the work will not retain its original soul.

With all due respect, that is conjecture or opinion on your part. It might not have the same soul, but it doesn't mean that it s without soul or at least a different sense of soul.

[trurl]

I think they should.

[Rufus]

I think they should.

It would a good idea!

[Squigelyfox]

With all due respect, that is conjecture or opinion on your part. It might not have the same soul, but it doesn't mean that it s without soul or at least a different sense of soul.

Exactly! I quite agree.

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

With all due respect, that is conjecture or opinion on your part. It might not have the same soul, but it doesn't mean that it s without soul or at least a different sense of soul.

I didn't say it would be "without soul". You twisted what I said.

[arise_shine]

Camel, and every other artist out there for that matter, should solely do what I want them to do. What they want to do or are capable of doing or what other fans want them to do are irrelevant.