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Thread: Kansas:The Classic Albums Collection 1974-1983

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    Kansas:The Classic Albums Collection 1974-1983

    Forgive me for starting another Kansas thread, but I seemed to have killed the other one. I got this box set as a birthday present to myself(thanks to an Amazon gift card sent by a friend). I wanted to get some opinions on the work of Kansas from 1974-1983(the years covered by the box set) from fellow Wheatheads(meaning just Kansas fans). I am particularly interested in what people think of the works of Kansas from 1979 to 1983, since most people say that they went downhill then(I'm basing this on reviews from sites like Allmusic and Vintage Prog). Carry on, my wayward proggers. Btw, what other Classic Albums collections should I get?

  2. #2
    Not sure what opinions you are looking for, to review or rank the albums? To say where we thought they started going downhill? My own opinion is that every album from Kansas through Monolith are great and Audio-Visions is good with some great songs on it. While the two with Elefante have some good songs, they strayed too far for me to remain a hardcore fan and I much preferred Steve Walsh' vocals to Elefante's (such a shame that Walsh's singing voice has deteriorated over the past 20 years though, maybe they need to bring Elefante back!)

    Of their first 6 studio released, I'd be hardpressed to pick a favorite because they all have mammoth epics while also having some lesser songs that ruin the consistency. I'd probably pick Leftoverture as their best but I don't necessarily listen to much of it often because it is also their most overplayed set of songs. With that said, I'd go with the 30th anniv rerelease of Two for the Show as my favorite of all of their works because of the inclusion of all the bonus tracks.

    Comparing Kansas to other prog bands, I'd put them in the second tier. They didn't have the ground-breaking impact of Yes, Genesis, King Crimson and didn't really push the boundaries like those bands or Van der Graaf, but otherwise they rank just as highly in my opinion as most prog from England, and they did it while also pumping out some rock anthems to make the band accessible to the mainstream FM audience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flowerking View Post
    Not sure what opinions you are looking for, to review or rank the albums? To say where we thought they started going downhill? My own opinion is that every album from Kansas through Monolith are great and Audio-Visions is good with some great songs on it. While the two with Elefante have some good songs, they strayed too far for me to remain a hardcore fan and I much preferred Steve Walsh' vocals to Elefante's (such a shame that Walsh's singing voice has deteriorated over the past 20 years though, maybe they need to bring Elefante back!)

    Of their first 6 studio released, I'd be hardpressed to pick a favorite because they all have mammoth epics while also having some lesser songs that ruin the consistency. I'd probably pick Leftoverture as their best but I don't necessarily listen to much of it often because it is also their most overplayed set of songs. With that said, I'd go with the 30th anniv rerelease of Two for the Show as my favorite of all of their works because of the inclusion of all the bonus tracks.

    Comparing Kansas to other prog bands, I'd put them in the second tier. They didn't have the ground-breaking impact of Yes, Genesis, King Crimson and didn't really push the boundaries like those bands or Van der Graaf, but otherwise they rank just as highly in my opinion as most prog from England, and they did it while also pumping out some rock anthems to make the band accessible to the mainstream FM audience.
    You can review and/or rank the albums. I don't care. To me, the way that Kansas mixed British and American influences was quite groundbreaking.

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    I like the Proggy stuff on the first five albums. I like the live album. After that I lose interest, though I can see how some might enjoy some of the later stuff. Not much more to say than that. You have the box set, listen to it and make up your own mind.

    I have no idea about other classic album collections, I prefer to get the albums that I like by bands and avoid the ones I don't. I find collections often omit the material I like the most.

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    I like the Proggy stuff on the first five albums. I like the live album. After that I lose interest, though I can see how some might enjoy some of the later stuff. Not much more to say than that. You have the box set, listen to it and make up your own mind.

    I have no idea about other classic album collections, I prefer to get the albums that I like by bands and avoid the ones I don't. I find collections often omit the material I like the most.

    Bill
    I have made up my own mind. I just wanted to see what others thought. These collections put out by Sony do contain full albums.

  6. #6
    I've only owned Kansas collections--the original Greatest Hits from the '80s and now the 3-disc version of the Essential Kansas collection--and my feeling has been that everything up through Audio-Visions is a solid and unified body of work, but that the Elefante-led Kansas was really a different band. Not just because of the change in singers, but also the overall changes in songwriting and production. Would anyone guess that Drastic Measures was a Kansas album if they'd never seen the album cover? Vinyl Confessions at least has the violin on it, but it still seems like a different thing.

    Monolith and Audio-Visions might not be quite up to the same level as the earlier albums, but there are enough strong songs on both to make them worthwhile purchases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    These collections put out by Sony do contain full albums.
    OK then, that's good. I'm not sure what other bands they have done, but if they are full albums and they interest you in any way, I'd say go for it!

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    Forgive me for starting another Kansas thread, but I seemed to have killed the other one. I got this box set as a birthday present to myself(thanks to an Amazon gift card sent by a friend). I wanted to get some opinions on the work of Kansas from 1974-1983(the years covered by the box set) from fellow Wheatheads(meaning just Kansas fans). I am particularly interested in what people think of the works of Kansas from 1979 to 1983, since most people say that they went downhill then(I'm basing this on reviews from sites like Allmusic and Vintage Prog). Carry on, my wayward proggers. Btw, what other Classic Albums collections should I get?
    Monolith: A big step down to my ears, although it does have some good songs. The tour was incredible though. Kansas at their live peak.

    Audio Visions: A mixed bag. Some really great songs and some mediocre stuff. Worth owning for sure though. Livgren’s religious stuff vs. Walsh’s straight forward stuff. I always liked “No One Together”, “Hold On’, and “Got To Rock On”.

    Vinyl Confessions: The best of the two Elefante albums, although I don’t think it is great. The single “Play The Game Tonight” is a great tune as is “Crossfire” and a few others.

    Drastic Measures: Kansas weakest studio album to my ears. Not terrible, but not all that good either.

    Power: I love this album. It gets mixed reviews from a lot of Kansas fans, but I really dig it and think from a writing perspective it may be Steve Walsh’s best overall work with the band. I like pretty much every song on it.

    In The Spirit Of Things: This could have been a great album, but record company interference (bringing in outside songwriters) really spoiled the overall concept. For me there are 4 great tracks on this on: “Ghosts”, “Rainmaker”, “The Preacher” and “Bells Of St. James”. The rest is pretty dull.

    “Live At The Whisky”: This was where you really started to hear deterioration in Walsh’s voice, but musically this version of the band (with Ragsdale and Robert) was on fire. I just re-visited this video recently and it brought back what a manic front man Walsh was at one time. I kind of miss that live…

    Freaks Of Nature: Another album that had a lot of potential, but was kind of a letdown for me. I really think if they had allowed Ragsdale more input on the writing that this would have been better. Listening to Ragsdale’s solo album “David And Goliath” from around the same period it just seems like the band kind of played it safe. Anyway, a decent effort, but not a great Kansas album.

    Regarding other classic album box sets, the Blue Oyster Cult box is worth every penny and a great collection and remastered beautifully.

    Steve Sly

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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveSly View Post
    Monolith: A big step down to my ears, although it does have some good songs. The tour was incredible though. Kansas at their live peak.

    Audio Visions: A mixed bag. Some really great songs and some mediocre stuff. Worth owning for sure though. Livgren’s religious stuff vs. Walsh’s straight forward stuff. I always liked “No One Together”, “Hold On’, and “Got To Rock On”.

    Vinyl Confessions: The best of the two Elefante albums, although I don’t think it is great. The single “Play The Game Tonight” is a great tune as is “Crossfire” and a few others.

    Drastic Measures: Kansas weakest studio album to my ears. Not terrible, but not all that good either.

    Power: I love this album. It gets mixed reviews from a lot of Kansas fans, but I really dig it and think from a writing perspective it may be Steve Walsh’s best overall work with the band. I like pretty much every song on it.

    In The Spirit Of Things: This could have been a great album, but record company interference (bringing in outside songwriters) really spoiled the overall concept. For me there are 4 great tracks on this on: “Ghosts”, “Rainmaker”, “The Preacher” and “Bells Of St. James”. The rest is pretty dull.

    “Live At The Whisky”: This was where you really started to hear deterioration in Walsh’s voice, but musically this version of the band (with Ragsdale and Robert) was on fire. I just re-visited this video recently and it brought back what a manic front man Walsh was at one time. I kind of miss that live…

    Freaks Of Nature: Another album that had a lot of potential, but was kind of a letdown for me. I really think if they had allowed Ragsdale more input on the writing that this would have been better. Listening to Ragsdale’s solo album “David And Goliath” from around the same period it just seems like the band kind of played it safe. Anyway, a decent effort, but not a great Kansas album.

    Regarding other classic album box sets, the Blue Oyster Cult box is worth every penny and a great collection and remastered beautifully.

    Steve Sly
    You should repost this on the other Kansas thread. Let's see if we can revive that puppy. I was only interested in talk of the 1974-'83 era. I thought that the other Kansas thread went into the post Sony years rather well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sputnik View Post
    OK then, that's good. I'm not sure what other bands they have done, but if they are full albums and they interest you in any way, I'd say go for it!

    Bill
    There are also complete albums collections from Blue Oyster Cult(have it), Judas Priest(have it), ELO(don't have it), and Cheap Trick(don't want it, because it's only available as an important). I believe there is also one by Bob Dylan and Paul Simon. I wish they would make one for Toto.

    Quote Originally Posted by profusion View Post
    the Elefante-led Kansas was really a different band. Not just because of the change in singers, but also the overall changes in songwriting and production. Would anyone guess that Drastic Measures was a Kansas album if they'd never seen the album cover? Vinyl Confessions at least has the violin on it, but it still seems like a different thing.
    To me, Vinyl Confessions does not seem that different from the previous albums. Okay, so they are no epics or instrumentals, but it's still Kansas. I did read somewhere that most of VC was written with Steve still in the band.

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    Vinyl Confessions: The best of the two Elefante albums, although I don’t think it is great. The single “Play The Game Tonight” is a great tune as is “Crossfire” and a few others.
    VC is a very special album to me, so I'm biased. Regardless whether Steve Walsh is not singing on this album, I think it is one of their best sounding albums. It still has a bit of proggy-ness here and there. The guitars are fantastic on this album. I really, really love this album, and I'd rank it above Monolith and AV without hesitation. Favorite track is Fair Exchange. That is a beast of a song. So there, I'm the odd duck who loves the Kansas album most Kansas fans dismiss.

    In The Spirit Of Things: This could have been a great album, but record company interference (bringing in outside songwriters) really spoiled the overall concept. For me there are 4 great tracks on this on: “Ghosts”, “Rainmaker”, “The Preacher” and “Bells Of St. James”. The rest is pretty dull.
    My thoughts about this album are almost exactley your comments above. When I got re-aquainted with Kansas in the mid/late 90s I had no idea about this album (In The Spirit....). I was aware that they'd regrouped with Steve Walsh and no Kerry Livgren, and that Steve Morse had joined them. On paper that looked like a match made in Heaven. The Dixie Dregs' insane guitarist with Kansas. Imagine the music these guys are gonna produce. NOT! What a huge disappointment. So, I'd been reading about In The Spirit of Things on a Kansas message board (The Friends Of Kansas Message Center, I have no idea how I stumbled into that place but it's pretty much where I got "prog mania" and started buying prog albums). ITSOT was highly, highly recommended by everyone. Well, I was suprised to find ITSOT in bargain bins (not used, brand new) for a few dollars. Really? I think Rainmaker had some serious potential to be one of their best prog epics. If only they would've built the concept around that epic (when I say the concept I don't mean the story, I mean the concept of actually recording a "prog" album in 1988). Needless to say, I basically hated the damn thing. I've bought that CD twice and gotten rid of it twice over the last 12 years or so.

    Freaks Of Nature: Another album that had a lot of potential, but was kind of a letdown for me. I really think if they had allowed Ragsdale more input on the writing that this would have been better. Listening to Ragsdale’s solo album “David And Goliath” from around the same period it just seems like the band kind of played it safe. Anyway, a decent effort, but not a great Kansas album.
    FON seems to be a fan favorite. I had some mixed feelings about it but overall I think it's a strong Kansas album. It's the best Kansas album without Kerry Livgren (and ironically one of the best songs on the album is written by Kerry). There's some filler on this album, the guitars a bit too up front and the keyboards are buried, but it's a damn, fine album. It's got enough quirkyness to keep long time fans of the proggy Kansas interested.

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    I thought that Drastic Measures was the Kansas album that most fans loved to dismiss. Btw, can we keep this discussion to the Kansas of '74-'83? I didn't mean to kill the other Kansas thread. I just wanted to talk about the Kansas album from '74-'83(especially the years '79-'83), because I didn't think that the other thread talked about those years enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    Btw, what other Classic Albums collections should I get?
    I really love the Chicago-box, spanning their first 11 studio-albums. They're all you need really.

    I also love the Le Orme-box. Many people complained about the compression, being too loud, etc, but I think they've just done a really good job.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveSly View Post
    Monolith: (etc)

    Freaks Of Nature: Another album that had a lot of potential, but was kind of a letdown for me. I really think if they had allowed Ragsdale more input on the writing that this would have been better. Listening to Ragsdale’s solo album “David And Goliath” from around the same period it just seems like the band kind of played it safe. Anyway, a decent effort, but not a great Kansas album.
    You forgot about Somewhere To Else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    I thought that Drastic Measures was the Kansas album that most fans loved to dismiss. Btw, can we keep this discussion to the Kansas of '74-'83? I didn't mean to kill the other Kansas thread. I just wanted to talk about the Kansas album from '74-'83(especially the years '79-'83), because I didn't think that the other thread talked about those years enough.
    I think within the first five Kansas-albums, "Masque" is the dud. Don't really enjoy that one save the two or three obvious tracks. I love all other four actually, especially Song and Point. I partial to Monolith, yet I quite like Audio-Visions. Not a big fan of the two Elefante-albums though. All in all, a lovely box, but although I own this box more than 2 years now, I admit I haven't even listened to the second (extra) disc of "Two For The Show".

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    You forgot about Somewhere To Else.
    and you got he title wrong .

    Btw, can we keep this discussion to the Kansas of '74-'83?
    Yeah. I'm not gonna go through the whole discography but I'll just say, the cream of the crop are:

    Song For America
    Leftoverture
    Point Of Know Return
    .
    ,
    .
    .
    .
    Masque and the first album are fine albums but both have some filler. Both albums also have some HUGE epic tracks that make them essential to the Kansas canon.

    .
    .
    .

    Monolith: I still have it but it's not a favorite. Hard to describe waht I think about it. It's got some great songs, and it's got some adventurous stuff on it, but overall it lacks something. You could tell they were getting stale.

    Audio Vision: Got rid of it. Besides a few great songs most of it is forgettable, bland, stale, etc.

    Two For The Show: I had the original CD release years ago, then ditched it when 2FTS was remastered and expanded. I think it's a GREAT live album. Normally I don't count live albums among a band's discography, and I'd never recommend a live album as a starting point, but for a newbie I'd recommend it. If that's the only Kansas album you ever buy then you've got one of their best.

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    Drastic Measures: Wow, what a difference one year made. A truly awful, horrible album. The majority of the songs were written by John and Dino Elefante, and the album sounds like it was recorded in an airplane hangar. I got rid of it years ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunhillow View Post
    I really love the Chicago-box, spanning their first 11 studio-albums. They're all you need really.

    I also love the Le Orme-box. Many people complained about the compression, being too loud, etc, but I think they've just done a really good job.
    I'm only interested in Complete Albums Collection by Sony, but skipping Chicago and Cheap Trick because they are imports.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunhillow View Post
    I think within the first five Kansas-albums, "Masque" is the dud. Don't really enjoy that one save the two or three obvious tracks. I love all other four actually, especially Song and Point. I partial to Monolith, yet I quite like Audio-Visions. Not a big fan of the two Elefante-albums though. All in all, a lovely box, but although I own this box more than 2 years now, I admit I haven't even listened to the second (extra) disc of "Two For The Show".
    Why don't you like Masque? I think it's great. Although, I don't listen to it that much. My dad keep telling me how great it was for years, but I could never find the CD. I did eventually find it when the remasters started coming out. I haven't listened to Two For The Show all the way through. Just selection tracks. That's cool the way that Dust In The Wind ends with an acoustic guitar solo, then it leads into a piano solo, and concludes with Lonely Wind. That all should've been one long track.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    Two For The Show: I had the original CD release years ago, then ditched it when 2FTS was remastered and expanded. I think it's a GREAT live album. Normally I don't count live albums among a band's discography, and I'd never recommend a live album as a starting point, but for a newbie I'd recommend it. If that's the only Kansas album you ever buy then you've got one of their best.
    Thanks, Vic. I ought to listen to that soon. Btw, thanks to everyone for allowing me to redirect this thread.

  18. #18
    Kansas' music hit me at a very impressionable age and were a gateway to prog. I can understand how some people would find them less significant than Yes, Genesis, etc. But I give Livgren, Walsh, Steinhardt et al credit for sincerity and finding their own rock voice among powerful voices. In my book, Zappa, Kansas and Echolyn are cornerstones of American music.

    I especially like following Livgren's spiritual journey through the songs. He had one of the most uncanny vocalists of the 70s at his disposal and used it (cf "The Wall" and the live version of "Lonely Street"). The arrangements are some of the most beautiful in all of rock ensemble writing ("Closet Chronicles," "Miracles out of Nowhere"). And I'd put "Magnum Opus" up against any other rehearsal-intensive virtuoso prog tour de force out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunhillow View Post
    I think within the first five Kansas-albums, "Masque" is the dud. Don't really enjoy that one save the two or three obvious tracks. I love all other four actually, especially Song and Point. I partial to Monolith, yet I quite like Audio-Visions. Not a big fan of the two Elefante-albums though. All in all, a lovely box, but although I own this box more than 2 years now, I admit I haven't even listened to the second (extra) disc of "Two For The Show".
    Different strokes I guess......I have the exact opposite opinion as "Masque" is one of my all time favorite Kansas albums. "Mysteries and Mayhem / The Pinnacle" may be their finest moment ever to my ears.

    Steve Sly

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    Quote Originally Posted by undergroundrailroad View Post
    Kansas' music hit me at a very impressionable age and were a gateway to prog. I can understand how some people would find them less significant than Yes, Genesis, etc. But I give Livgren, Walsh, Steinhardt et al credit for sincerity and finding their own rock voice among powerful voices. In my book, Zappa, Kansas and Echolyn are cornerstones of American music.

    I especially like following Livgren's spiritual journey through the songs. He had one of the most uncanny vocalists of the 70s at his disposal and used it (cf "The Wall" and the live version of "Lonely Street"). The arrangements are some of the most beautiful in all of rock ensemble writing ("Closet Chronicles," "Miracles out of Nowhere"). And I'd put "Magnum Opus" up against any other rehearsal-intensive virtuoso prog tour de force out there.
    I have posted this here before, but Kansas was also my "gateway" band to prog. They were my first prog album purchase and my first prog concert. They were absolutely essential to discovering everything else for me.

    Steve Sly

  21. #21
    If this is the same "series" I think your talking about.. I've purchased several of them and have been very pleased with the sound quality.. mind you if you are one of those folks who need liner notes etc.. then I would stay away from these.. cardboard covers etc.. but again.. for he price they are hard to beat..

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    Quote Originally Posted by happytheman View Post
    If this is the same "series" I think your talking about.. I've purchased several of them and have been very pleased with the sound quality.. mind you if you are one of those folks who need liner notes etc.. then I would stay away from these.. cardboard covers etc.. but again.. for he price they are hard to beat..
    These do have liner notes and instrument/production credits. Where they are lacking is photos. For example, most of the photos in the booklet of the Kansas box set come from the time of the first album.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    These do have liner notes and instrument/production credits. Where they are lacking is photos. For example, most of the photos in the booklet of the Kansas box set come from the time of the first album.
    Different series.. than what I got.. my Kansas box came with first 5 albums.. price came out to $3 a disc.. same with Jean Luc Ponty, Stanly Clarke, Al Dimeola and one other I cannot think of right this moment.. These were bands that I didn't have any of their CD's and found it to be a quick way to grab some classics..

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    Quote Originally Posted by happytheman View Post
    Different series.. than what I got.. my Kansas box came with first 5 albums.. price came out to $3 a disc.. same with Jean Luc Ponty, Stanly Clarke, Al Dimeola and one other I cannot think of right this moment.. These were bands that I didn't have any of their CD's and found it to be a quick way to grab some classics..
    Oh. My has all the albums that Kansas made for CBS, remastered. They are similar sets by BOC, Cheap Trick, Paul Simon, and ELO.

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    Kansas' music hit me at a very impressionable age and were a gateway to prog. I can understand how some people would find them less significant than Yes, Genesis, etc. But I give Livgren, Walsh, Steinhardt et al credit for sincerity and finding their own rock voice among powerful voices. In my book, Zappa, Kansas and Echolyn are cornerstones of American music.
    Very well put. I'd also include Happy The Man as a cornerstone of American Prog.

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