Get Down, Get Funky

[PeterG]

Indeed Trurl, in fact this thread started off with a lot of soul-pop and funk-pop bands not much R & B there at all.
R & B was around before R 'n R, and as an example I can say that what the Jamaicans based ska on was a blend of Chicago R & B and their own mento and calypso.

R & B started as an Afro-American music in the 40s actually, coming out of the rural blues music when many blacks moved from southern rural areas in the 30s and 40s up into northern industrial towns and cities to find work. To be heard in the clubs they had to boost the sound with electric axes and drums. The beat got faster and adapted to the city rhythms. .

The term rhythm and blues was introduced in 48 by Jerry Wexler. In 49 Billboard changed the name of the Harlem Hit Parade list to R & B.
Earliest artists were Big Joe Turner och Roy Brown.

In the 50s Ruth Brown, Fats Domino, Lloyd Price and Chuck Berry, but even Elvis had hits at the top of the R&B list, Jailhouse Rock and All Shook Up.

In the 60s the term became reborn when British bands like The Rolling Stones, The Animals and The Pretty Things called their version of American blues and rock songs simply R & B.

So, I have no idea why soul and funk bands on here are being called R & B.

[Modry Effekt]

Well, Parliament/Funkadelic is the picture in the dictionary under "funk". (Yeah, James Brown invented it, but George Clinton explained what it was )

I was still talking about Suzi Quatro - Your Mama Won't Like Me

Don Covay - If there's a will there's a way

[Modry Effekt]

Jeff Beck Group - Going Down

[trurl]

I was still talking about Suzi Quatro - Your Mama Won't Like Me

Oh, sorry- well it is though! It's not bad.

[PeterG]

Stones are to R&B as Yardbirds/Zep/Cream et al are to the blues

Exactly. I think some people don't really know what R & B actually is.

[GuitarGeek]

+1


....on the other hand, I dont exactly call what Ciara, Lil Wayne, Missy Elliot, and Black Eyed Peas do as R&B, either (those are just "R" -- because I can't find any "B" in any of it)

Yeah, I remember telling someone at work I was mostly into like Motown and stuff like P-Funk when it came to R&B, and she said "Oh, you're into the old school R&B", and I said, "Yeah, I guess if you have to call it something, that's what it is".

I've said this many times, but I think somewhere in the mid 80's, sometime around 85 or 86, things started going south. Up until about that time, I think there was some good R&B, even things like Jump from The Pointer Sisters or Ashford & Simpson's Solid As A Rock, but right around the time of that first Whitney Houston record came out, things changed, somehow. The songwriting started becoming more mediocre, and drum machines, samplers and synths had already replaced most of the musicians on a lot of the records. There was just nothing to listen to anymore in the genre after awhile.

[Modry Effekt]

Words of true PeterG.Animals were absolutely funk.

Eric Burdon & War - Spill The Wine

[trurl]

Well, it was hip-hop, pure and simple. Out with the musicians, in with the djs and beat boxes. Not making a value judgement, that's just how it went down. It was like an urban punk movement, on steroids. It consumed every vestige of existing urban (ok, black) music that existed before it, like the Borg or something.

[PeterG]

THIS IS R & B. Chuck Berry 1955. Listen to what the German compere says right at the beginning of the clip "Rytm und blues"
No one was calling music Rock 'n Roll in 55 because it wasn't R n R,granted it laid the foundations for R 'n R to evolve, but that other element was still missing to make it R 'n R i.e. The white boys with their rockabilly!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvKDr8AgvK8

[Modry Effekt]

THIS IS R & B. Chuck Berry 1955. Listen to what the German comperesays right at the beginning of the clip "Rytm und blues"
No one was calling music Rock 'n Roll in 55 becasue it wasn't R n R,granted it laid the foundations for R 'n R to evolve, but that other element was still missing to make it R 'n R i.e. The white boys with their rockabilly!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvKDr8AgvK8

Chuck Berry is still on road.Visited my hometown 25.10.2013 at age of 87.Respect.He was my first guitar hero and most likely would be last as well.

[PeterG]

.He was my first guitar hero

Coincidentally, mine too. And when I was 13 we were given some school homework, to write a short biography about a famous person and include a photo if possible, but it was none of yer Gandhi, Churchill, Jesus, Nelson, Caesar for me me lad...No, I wrote about Chuck Berry and included a photo from a newspaper

[klothos]

I
The term rhythm and blues was introduced in 48 by Jerry Wexler. In 49 Billboard changed the name of the Harlem Hit Parade list to R & B.
Earliest artists were Big Joe Turner och Roy Brown.

In the 50s Ruth Brown, Fats Domino, Lloyd Price and Chuck Berry, but even Elvis had hits at the top of the R&B list, Jailhouse Rock and All Shook Up.

In the 60s the term became reborn when British bands like The Rolling Stones, The Animals and The Pretty Things called their version of American blues and rock songs simply R & B.

So, I have no idea why soul and funk bands on here are being called R & B.

I guess it boils down to to my de facto usual PE explanation: it depends on how the user classifies R&B much in the same way how a user classifies "Progressive Rock"

For myself, when I think R&B, I think Sam Cooke, Sam & Dave, Curtis Mayfield, Johnny Taylor, Rufus Thomas,Tomato-era Albert King, The Supremes, Harold Melvin and The Blue Notes, The Chi-Lites, some Average White Band, The Delfonics, Marvin Gaye, etc AND up to/including most large band funk outfits from the 70s and 80s, including Cameo, Lakeside, Parliament/Funkadelic, etc....even disco-funk like GQ and go-go funk like EU or Trouble Funk...Why do I do this? Because, as diverse as all those acts are, I DO hear elements of BOTH "Rhythm" and "Blues" in all of it....With that said, I guess guys like Chuck Berry can fall into this category.....but when I hear Black Eyed Peas or most Nu-R&B/"Booty Music" songs, I rarely hear Blues in any of it....the closest I hear is standard gospel vocal licks and inflections (such as, a one-syllable word like "love" into a 9-syllable word all up and down the register "Luu-o-uuu-oh-a-o-ah-oooo-ve" -- but no "B" for Blues

[PeterG]

Yea, soul was basically what R & B developed into in the 60s. Love black American 60s soul.

[Modry Effekt]

Coincidentally, mine too. And when I was 13 we were given some school homework, to write a short biography about a famous person and include a photo if possible, but it was none of yer Gandhi, Churchill, Jesus, Nelson, Caesar for me me lad...No, I wrote about Chuck Berry and included a photo from a newspaper

Cool.

[Modry Effekt]

Kraan - Jerk Of Life live 1974

[Rickenbacker]

Kraan - Jerk Of Life live 1974

Interesting, but not sure if that qualifies as "funky" music you could get down to. 'Least in *my* book. Can't imagine that music being used for the Soul Train line dancers, for ex.

[klothos]

Yeah, I remember telling someone at work I was mostly into like Motown and stuff like P-Funk when it came to R&B, and she said "Oh, you're into the old school R&B", and I said, "Yeah, I guess if you have to call it something, that's what it is".

I've said this many times, but I think somewhere in the mid 80's, sometime around 85 or 86, things started going south. Up until about that time, I think there was some good R&B, even things like Jump from The Pointer Sisters or Ashford & Simpson's Solid As A Rock, but right around the time of that first Whitney Houston record came out, things changed, somehow. The songwriting started becoming more mediocre, and drum machines, samplers and synths had already replaced most of the musicians on a lot of the records. There was just nothing to listen to anymore in the genre after awhile.

Blame Reagonomics: one of the first thing Reagan did in the 80s was budget-cuts for the Arts in public schools: No more Federal and State funded saxophones, trumpets, drums, etc.......so, if a poor kid cant make music on an instrument, whats he got left? Answer: a turntable and a microphone...notice how through the whoile decade of the 80s til the mid 90s there is a decline in funk/soul/R&B "bands" and the rise of DJs and rappers.


Rap is also an umbrella term: A lot of the Nu-R&B falls into this category - of which a good bulk is production, contrived subject matter, and questionable talent-skills --- but there really are excellent rap artists out there that have more in common with "The Blues" than many of the so-called Blues Nazi Shuffle-after-shuffle rich guy weekend bands out there do. Why? Because - just like Robert Johnson and Leadbelly - they are writing music that is pure heart...as a matter of fact, I will go on to say that if Robert Johnson was born 150 years later, he wouldnt be sitting on a corner with a slide pocket-knife and beat-up guitar singing about the shitty world around him -- he would have a computer with looping tools and a microphone rapping about the shitty world around him........Some rap, particularly Gangsta Rap, IS the modern blues......

And for those that think there is no talent in rap, take a listen to the way these flows are being spit: this is like listening to a kick-ass polyrhythmic drummer (If you dont want to listen to the whole thing, at least fast forward to 2:55 or so and start there to get a taste)

[Rickenbacker]

Well said, klothos. & I *hate* when I hear this:

there is no talent in rap,

[Modry Effekt]

Beck Bogart & Appice - Superstition - 1973

[PeterG]

There is some extremely experimental and interesting and great rap music there. Anyone who can't admit that is an ostrich.

[Modry Effekt]

Leon Thomas - L-o-v-e

[Modry Effekt]

Leon Thomas - One 1979

[GuitarGeek]

so, if a poor kid cant make music on an instrument, whats he got left? Answer: a turntable and a microphone...notice how through the whoile decade of the 80s til the mid 90s there is a decline in funk/soul/R&B "bands" and the rise of DJs and rappers.

Yeah, but even in the context of DJ's and turntablists, there's still some interesting music here and there. I always liked that turntable solo on Herbie Hancock's Rockit, for instance. And I remember ages ago seeing a clip of Grandmaster Flash from the late 70's or very early 80's where he was doing some pretty cool stuff that actually required some honest to God skill.

The problem was, when it got to the point where all you had to do was read a couple owner's manuals to acquire the "skill" to do what probably took Grandmaster Flash months (or maybe even years) to be able to pull off effectively.

But is always noted, there's good stuff, if you have the time, money and inclination to look for it. The thing is, it used to be you didn't have to look for it, it was right there in the mainstream where anyone could bump into it.

[Modry Effekt]

Snafu - Drowning In The Sea Of Love

[Yodelgoat]

Mister Graham and Co does it for me better than anyone...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=Is665CtmBUc