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Thread: Kayak - What albums are worthwile?

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    Member Hour Candle's Avatar
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    Kayak - What albums are worthwile?

    Kayak - The band that everyone keep telling me to check out. 'They're fantastic in their strongest hour, but beware of the pop songs', a friend keeps saying. I'm a Camel fan, so I know Ton Scherpenzeel from there. But among all these albums.. Which albums are worthwile and not too 'popish'?

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    Progga mogrooves's Avatar
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    I know only the first three, and would recommend See See The Sun; the pop element is there but it's not a dealbreaker....
    Hell, they ain't even old-timey ! - Homer Stokes

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    Quote Originally Posted by mogrooves View Post
    would recommend See See The Sun; the pop element is there but it's not a dealbreaker....
    That. If you like that one, the next few are good too.

    But then, I'm a fan-- I have every album, except their live in the studio Eyewitness (I'll be getting that soon too). I like them all. But you need to be clear about what they're about: excellent quirky pop along the lines of, say, Supertramp. Art Rock in the big tent sense, with occasional progressive touches spicing up what the focus has always really been about with them-- quality songs. Later they delved into (and continue to delve into) musical theatre/concept albums. Again, the focus is always on melodicism, the quality of the tunes. Then they flesh that out with fine musicianship and a quirky, creative sensibility, which is more apparent on the older material-- the later material is still very fine, but decidedly more conventional.

    That's my take anyway. Quite a few fans here, I'm sure they'll chime in. Enjoy the Kayak world!

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    I'm a huge Kayak fan so I figured I'd respond. I should say that a statement like "beware of the pop songs" sounds funny to me because as far as I'm concerned a good pop song is nothing to be afraid of, but I know here in the land of PROG, pop is so evil.

    I have not found a Kayak album that I enjoy ALL of, but they got closest with "Royal Bed Bouncer" and "The Last Encore". Those may be too poppy for you -- depends on your definition of pop. Despite this problem, Kayak is still a top favorite group for me. Those two albums are just so Kayak.

    Their debut album, "See See The Sun", has its moments and I would bet that most people here will recommend it to you, but I find that album to be lacking in originality; at least most of it (the song "Mammoth" is an exception -- very original and wonderful).

    Their second album ("Kayak's Second Album") has some great stuff too but also some stuff that I don't think works too well.

    "Royal Bed Bouncer" and "The Last Encore" came next.

    After that, they did a few albums that you would probably find too poppy, but who knows. Eventually they did the album "Merlin" which is half of a GREAT album. Side 1 is a set of songs about Merlin the magician and is superb. BUT, even I can't deal with most of the rest of that album -- it's pop but it's bad pop (save for the last song which is gorgeous).

    In the 2000s they have released some fine music but I wouldn't suggest it to most Prog fans.

    I would suggest that you go to youtube or Spotify and listen to some samples.

    Favorites:

    "Mammoth" (from "See See The Sun"): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AWabT5cDEw
    Here's the whole "See See The Sun" album you can tryout: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np1iU_k-WBo
    "Trust in the Machine" (from '2nd'): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY_xBvwLh4s
    "Royal Bed Bouncer" (from the album of that name): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yX7o3ApZwMk
    "Chance for a Lifetime" (from "Royal"): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T81YEb54WeE
    "If This is Your Welcome" (from "Royal"): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kW9mpZ8wgD4
    "Irene" (from "Starlight Dancer"): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrDdpUjfDRY

    "Full Circle" (from the 2000 release "Close to the Fire" -- this link is a live version): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zzJozIHUsQ
    "Close to The Fire": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82DTW1fv3yA

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    Member Hour Candle's Avatar
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    Sorry, the pop thing isn't at all a dirty word (some friends can run up that hill!). If it's intelligent and nicely done, I love pop (hey, please don't shoot..). I don't mind at all. Good musicianship and a melody to love - that's it really. And I did check some Kayak vid's on You tube and plenty of them were really awesome!! I started by ordering Merlin (1981), used but in mint condition. Please - keep the recommendations coming

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    ^^^^You've got the right mindset for it

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    I have all the studio albums by the first iteration of the band. None of them are bad but Periscope Life is the...least good. The first three are definitely the best, with See See the Sun being the proggiest and probably my favourite. By Royal Bed Bouncer the music was pretty much straight on “pop-prog,” but still really good (“Said No Word” is a gem).

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    The first two are pretty good. The next three are the best - Royal Bed Bouncer. Starlight Dancer, and The Last Encore, but there's a caveat - you MUST get the Dutch versions of the last two. US and other versions had different tracks, different mixes, and the result wasn't pretty. After the Last Encore, singer/drummer/Mellotronist Max Werner left the band, and they just were never the same again. But basically #2-5 are sublime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Calabasas_Trafalgar View Post
    After the Last Encore, singer/drummer/Mellotronist Max Werner left the band, and they just were never the same again. But basically #2-5 are sublime.
    Actually, that's not true. Max sang on "Starlight Dancer" (which was after "The Last Encore") and then stayed with the band through to 1981s "Eyewitness" but not as singer (mostly); more as drummer, while Ed Reekers sang (mostly) on those albums. I say mostly because Max did do vocals on "No Man's Land" from the "Phantom of the Night" album -- although I'm not a big fan of the song.

    In 2000 he was back as vocalist on the "Close To The Fire" album but then left the band again. I don't believe he toured with the band for that album.

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    Quote Originally Posted by clarkray View Post
    Actually, that's not true. Max sang on "Starlight Dancer" (which was after "The Last Encore") and then stayed with the band through to 1981s "Eyewitness" but not as singer (mostly); more as drummer, while Ed Reekers sang (mostly) on those albums. I say mostly because Max did do vocals on "No Man's Land" from the "Phantom of the Night" album -- although I'm not a big fan of the song.
    Good call. A rare case where the singer for a band does a "reverse Phil Collins" and goes behind the drums.

    Quote Originally Posted by clarkray View Post
    In 2000 he was back as vocalist on the "Close To The Fire" album but then left the band again. I don't believe he toured with the band for that album.
    I saw Kayak at the Paradiso in Amsterdam just after "Close to the Fire" came out, and Max Werner was there singing about half the songs, with a new singer covering the Edward Reekers material.

  11. #11
    They remind me ELO much more, than Camel.

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    Member BobM's Avatar
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    I bought Phantom of the Night when it first came out and because of it didn;t follow up with anything else from the band. Probably one of those "poppier" albums warned about above.
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    Ton Scherpenzeel of Kayak has made a solo-album, and it's at Progstreaming right now: http://www.progstreaming.com/_wb/pages/play-album.php?activeAlbum=00593%20-%20Ton%20Scherpenzeel%20-%20The%20Lion`s%20Dream

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    Member Burble's Avatar
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    I think Royal Bed Bouncer is the pinnacle. Poppy songs with bizarre, weirdo twists - great playing, super tape-saturation '70s production standard - - what's not to love? One of my very favorite albums, actually. See See the Sun is probably my second favorite. I haven't heard the Second Album, but past that, stuff like Starlight Dancer lacks the quirkiness that made me like them. I like some of Periscope Life, but I haven't listened to it for awhile. The later stuff is all too slick for me. I'd say try Royal Bed Bouncer and then work your way backward or forward depending on whether you like the quirk or the slick.

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    P.S. Ton Scherpenzeel doesn't really show off a lot, but if you listen real deep, he's a total badass. Those Dutch guys are something. Between him and Van der Linden and van Leer, they really kind of smoke the Emerson - Wakeman - Banks crowd in a lot of ways.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Burble View Post
    P.S. Ton Scherpenzeel doesn't really show off a lot, but if you listen real deep, he's a total badass.
    He was very show-offy on “Reason for It All,” the first song from their first album! Beyond that, it was fairly rare (maybe the piano intro to “Relics From a Distant Age”).

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  17. #17
    Here is Kayak in one of their best songs, despite the slightly corny subject matter. This is was a song from 1981 Merlin album which had a suite of songs following the concept on one side and a set of more commercial songs on the other side. After their reunion around 2000 they developed the concept side into a full album called Merlin - Bard Of The Unseen but more importantly they devised a theatre rock show around and toured it for 2 seasons here in the Netherlands to great success. Saw that show twice including the finale at the prestigious Carre Theater in Amsterdam. It was also the tour that introduced vocalist Cindy Oudshoorn to the fold and that has been a stroke of genius IMHO. She is not only a great vocalist but also takes care of a lot of the tour managing side of things IIRC. Saw Kayak last year at a special show where they cooperated with an symphonic wind orchestra and that was one of the best shows I had seen in years from them wasn't it for the fact that just a few weeks before that one I saw them on their Journey Through Time tour in a club venue which was maybe even better. This is a tour they have doing now for two seasons (Saturday they will be playing in my neck of the woods and am not going to miss it) where they combine the usual hit songs (yes, they had quite a few over here) with songs from their backcatalogue that haven't been played in a long time live and in some cases even never have been performed.

    Ok, here is the song Merlin then, recorded in 2008 at the Paradiso, Amsterdam with the late Pim Koopman on drums:


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    I like this band, a bit of a guilty pleasure. I've bought all their albums through the years. Of their newest albums my favorite is 'Close To The Fire':


  19. #19
    Merlin - Bard Of The Unseen is brilliant!
    "The world will soon be right again,
    Innocence and undying love will reign."
    - Transatlantic

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by dnieper View Post
    Good call. A rare case where the singer for a band does a "reverse Phil Collins" and goes behind the drums.


    Max Werner originally played drums and keyboards. He is credited with drums, percussion and keyboards on his first solo-album. In a television-show on Royal bed bouncer, he admitted he hated his own voice so much, he started drinking heavily, so he couldn't remember his singing after a concert. When Charles Louis Schouten (drummer on Starlight dancer) left the band, Max Werner only wanted to stay with the band as a drummer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Burble View Post
    P.S. Ton Scherpenzeel doesn't really show off a lot, but if you listen real deep, he's a total badass. Those Dutch guys are something. Between him and Van der Linden and van Leer, they really kind of smoke the Emerson - Wakeman - Banks crowd in a lot of ways.
    I remember an interview with Andy Latimer, stating Ton Scherpenzeel was the best keyboard-player Camel ever had.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burble View Post
    whether you like the quirk or the slick.
    Lol, good concise distinction

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    éí 'aaníígÓÓ 'áhoot'é Don Arnold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisXymphonia View Post
    Ok, here is the song Merlin then, recorded in 2008 at the Paradiso, Amsterdam with the late Pim Koopman on drums
    That was cool to watch - thanks for posting.

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