And I'll Scratch Yours

[N_Singh]

That's great, but you didn't answer the question.

You mean why people would rather play 1 stadium show instead of 30 club dates? Of course most rock stars would. You are right. Most working musicians I know would be perfectly happy to play 30 club dates, if they are younger. Or, perhaps, if they are 83 years old like Sonny Rollins or Jim Hall, perhaps a small tour in symphony-worthy halls.

I recognize that there are significant problems *romanticizing* small club/bar dates. I remember Bono noting that that they weren't going to repeat the mistakes Joe Strummer had made. So, they went in opposite direction. Extreme opposite direction.

Let me tell you a story I heard from my teacher about the plight of the working musician. He is very good/life long friends with a fellow master jazz guitarist (so famous that mainly only jazz guitarists know who he is, really---needless to say, he is an incredible player) who is from Philadelphia. When he was a teenager, this master guitarist got the guitar chair in Buddy Rich's big band. No small feat, that. You don't get to play in that band if you can't play. Eventually, said guitarist made his way to LA, to find work in the pit orchestras for TV and studio work.

It didn't work out so well, so this great musician would up back in Philadelphia, broke, tending bar for a while at local joint. One day, when he's working, he hears a knock on the back door. There is no window, so before he opens it, he inquires who it may be. The voice from the other side of the door answers back: "it's Joe Pass; I'm playing here tonight". This fellow great guitarist exclaimed back: "Bullshit! I know Joe Pass, he wouldn't play a dump like this!"
In fact, upon opening the door, it was, indeed, Joe Pass. And he was indeed playing "a dump like this"

[Scott Bails]

You mean why people would rather play 1 stadium show instead of 30 club dates? Of course most rock stars would. You are right. Most working musicians I know would be perfectly happy to play 30 club dates, if they are younger. Or, perhaps, if they are 83 years old like Sonny Rollins or Jim Hall, perhaps a small tour in symphony-worthy halls.

But that's a ridiculous way to tour and run your career.

Your assertion was that it's "shameful that stadium/arena rock shows still exist, that the totality of the musical experience is reduced to treating fans like cattle, to be herded into huge pens for maximum profit."

Why is it shameful? It's NOT shameful - it's efficient. It's the best way to play to your fans without touring for five years.

You may not like it, for various reasons, but it's far from "shameful."

[Reginod]

This from Tangram deserves repeating:

Wow.

Jeez, because the 60 plus year old man decides to slow down... It's only entertainment and a business. No need to go off. There are few who are productive at that time of their lives and they have the resources to do what they want. If you don't want to contribute to the "retirement fund", don't go to the shows. Their are many groups famous or not, that tour without new material. If you don't like the show, don't go. If you don't like the work don't buy it. There are plenty of young hungry groups around. Life's too short to get bent about someone you don't know and who doesn't do anything that effects your life.

[N_Singh]

This from Tangram deserves repeating:

Well, of course, this goes without saying. Retirees can do what they want, and we can support them or not.

We just get a whole bunch of PG threads here on this board (naturally, given that I would imagine that many people here were among his earliest supporters), and inevitably the question always comes forth: what happened to him, why is he so inactive, yadda yadda yadda. Every PG thread has this as a focus, inevitably.

I was pointing out that his situation is a bit different than the remnants of Grand Funk Railroad playing the County Fair or your local bar, trying to supplement their social security income with a $200 payday.

He is basically a venture capitalist who starts and flips media companies, a "tech entrepreneur", a digital mogul, ("the leading European platform provider for the distribution of online music"). And has been for a while. I would imagine being a venture capitalist is more lucrative and time consuming than putting out a new album. Do you think someone who's net worth is $60-80 million accrued that from royalties from Car/Scratch/Melt/Security, et al? Probably not.

[trurl]

There's a way to do huge shows that make them work, too. The Who could rock a stadium. So could Zeppelin, and that was in the days before huge multimedia shows. From what I've seen, U2 and PG both have designed shows that deliver the goods in a huge arena like that. Playing in an arena is not a sin, only playing in an arena when you're a club or shed-worthy act.

[battema]

There's a way to do huge shows that make them work, too. The Who could rock a stadium. So could Zeppelin, and that was in the days before huge multimedia shows. From what I've seen, U2 and PG both have designed shows that deliver the goods in a huge arena like that. Playing in an arena is not a sin, only playing in an arena when you're a club or shed-worthy act.

One of the most bizarre experiences I've seen recently was Sigur Ros at a fairly large venue (same place PG played a few months before, actually). The opener was Tim Hecker, a mostly-laptop jockey who does fantastic music that was utterly lost in the background noise at the venue. In a couple of weeks I'll see NIN at a huge arena, and Godspeed You! Black Emperor is opening...same deal IMHO.

[JKL2000]

A con is that Lou Reed took my favorite Gabriel song and made it weird, dark, grungy and unpleasant.

You kind of have to lay some of the blame on Gabriel for thinking "I know, I'll have a 71-year-old Jewish man who recently underwent major surgery cover 'Solsbury Hill,' that'll work perfectly."

No offense to geezer - with him, it would work!

BTW, the other day I was using the app "I Heart Radio," and Gabriel's Solsbury Hill came on, and it said "Explicit Lyrics." WTF?

[Kai]

BTW, the other day I was using the app "I Heart Radio," and Gabriel's Solsbury Hill came on, and it said "Explicit Lyrics." WTF?

Well, they are explicit. After all, he does say them aloud and doesn't just imply them, doesn't he.

Seriously, unless "turning water into wine" can be, through some torturous twist of interpretation, taken to mean that Gabriel is trying to present himself as a Christ figure in a way that might offend someone's religious feelings, I really don't see anything about the lyrics that would warrant such a notice. But then the American system of tagging songs with warning signs and especially the logic by which they are assigned has always seemed rather alien to me.

[JKL2000]

Oh and I also find it amusing that people are getting angry at Peter Gabriel for an album that contains zero Peter Gabriel...

I'd like a new Gabriel album as much as the next man, but I'm not going to get upset if he doesn't feel he's ready to release anything yet. Some musicians (and artists, and writers, and film directors etc etc) are prolific and some aren't. What's the big deal?

I think it's that it starts to seem like he's trying to milk us like a cow's teat. Also, I think it comes down to the quality of the covers, and most people here seem to prefer the quality of the covers on Hacket's album to those on Gabriel's.

IMO, the setlist of the Genesis Revisited II show put the emphasis on Hackett's guitar playing, which worked extremely well. Hackett was center stage throughout, and it was great to watch his technique. That's one aspect Gabriel can't ever really match, again IMO.

[JKL2000]

Well, they are explicit. After all, he does say them aloud and doesn't just imply them, doesn't he.

Seriously, unless "turning water into wine" can be, through some torturous twist of interpretation, taken to mean that Gabriel is trying to present himself as a Christ figure in a way that might offend someone's religious feelings, I really don't see anything about the lyrics that would warrant such a notice. But then the American system of tagging songs with warning signs and especially the logic by which they are assigned has always seemed rather alien to me.

And we all know what "pirouette" really means, eh? Nudge, nudge.

[syncopatico]

BTW, the other day I was using the app "I Heart Radio," and Gabriel's Solsbury Hill came on, and it said "Explicit Lyrics." WTF?

Maybe it's because of the wordless 'Gabrielese' at the end of the song: they must have assumed he was saying something naughty there in-between the squeals/grunts/groans!

[AWG]

Maybe it's because of the wordless 'Gabrielese' at the end of the song: they must have assumed he was saying something naughty there in-between the squeals/grunts/groans!

maybe it was pulling up the Loe Reed version? He changes the word "nut" to "slut" (as in 'my friends would think I was a...")

[ronmac]

maybe it was pulling up the Loe Reed version? He changes the word "nut" to "slut" (as in 'my friends would think I was a...")

Wow, now we have to picture Lou Reed dressed like a slut.

[Zonefish]

Wow, now we have to picture Lou Reed dressed like a slut.

Just like Holly from F.L.A.

[JKL2000]

Just finally had to have a listen to a little of Reed's "cover" of Solsbury Hill. IMO, it's not a cover. It's the words from the song sung to new music. Not terribly musical compared to the original.

So was this Reed's last recorded work?