Joy Division

[Library Jon]

After seeing Peter Hook in Philadelphia, a few weeks ago, I am very interested in picking up everything Joy Division. So far, I have the deluxe versions of "Unknown Pleasures", "Closer," and "Still." What else do I need to buy to truly have it all? I am aware that there were only two true albums and a bunch of singles back then. There are a bunch of compilations listed on Wikipedia. I assume that most of them overlap the same material. So if anyone could point me in the right direction, it would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Library Jon

[Rufus]

Never a fan so can't really help you , one of those bands that the singing was just intolerable for my ears!

However, I can reccomend plenty of New Order stuff !

[GuitarGeek]

After seeing Peter Hook in Philadelphia, a few weeks ago, I am very interested in picking up everything Joy Division. So far, I have the deluxe versions of "Unknown Pleasures", "Closer," and "Still." What else do I need to buy to truly have it all? I am aware that there were only two true albums and a bunch of singles back then. There are a bunch of compilations listed on Wikipedia. I assume that most of them overlap the same material. So if anyone could point me in the right direction, it would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Library Jon

Depending on what extras are on the deluxe editions, you may actually have most of the essential stuff. Off the top of my head, I would say the main thing you might "need" is the Substance compilation, which has the majority (if not all) of the band's non-album material.

I have the Body And Soul boxset, which basically bundled both the studio albums, all the singles, An Ideal For Living, a CD's worth of live material. There's a few songs from Still and a few "selected highlights" from their radio appearances. It's a nice set to have, not just for having most of the music in one package but also for the essays in the enclosed booklet.

[Mythos]

Unknown Pleasures is one of the greatest albums ever made! Although whenever I compile a top ten list it is always either 80's music or Prog music, I can't mix them...

[GuitarGeek]

Unknown Pleasures is one of the greatest albums ever made! Although whenever I compile a top ten list it is always either 80's music or Prog music, I can't mix them...

BOTH of the albums are amongst the greatest ever. They had some great singles too, namely Atmosphere, Love Will Tear Us Apart and Transmission. The B-sides on all three all killer too.

I saw a great documentary on Joy Division a few months ago, I think it was just called Joy Division, and there's a great bit where they play an excerpt of John Peel playing, or at least attempting to play Atmosphere. Apparently, the original single (which was actually a French import) was mastered at 33 and a third! So there's a bit of him playing the song at the wrong speed, and then sort of sheepishly admitting that he's only done it half the times he's tried playing the record, that makes a comment about the French "sending us records that don't play at the right speed".

[klothos]

Never a fan so can't really help you , one of those bands that the singing was just intolerable for my ears!

However, I can reccomend plenty of New Order stuff !

Yup

the only difference between me and you is that I kinda liked Joy Divison......but I really like New Order ( and I sing "Blue Monday" in my cover band )

[PeterG]

Never a fan so can't really help you , one of those bands that the singing was just intolerable for my ears!

However, I can reccomend plenty of New Order stuff !

+1 Exactly my view as well. I thought the singing was awful and the music was just boring.

What a lot of Americans don't realise is that in their day Joy Division were not popular and most people didn't even know of them. The first most Brits knew of Joy Division was when New Order members answered questions about them in interviews due only to Curtis' suicide, and lets face it the mystery around them is only due to his suicide. There has been a helluva lot of revisionist bollox written about Joy Division that does not tally with the facts. Back then far more popular and far more well known by the public were The Stranglers, The Fall, The Cure, PiL.

[JJ88]

I was lucky enough to get a cheap second hand 'Heart and Soul' set. Don't need anything else. I really like them, perhaps the definitive 'post punk' group. I am less enthusiastic about New Order.

I believe that you can have charisma as a singer without being technically great. Ian Curtis had that.

[Rufus]

I was lucky enough to get a cheap second hand 'Heart and Soul' set. Don't need anything else. I really like them, perhaps the definitive 'post punk' group. I am less enthusiastic about New Order.

I believe that you can have charisma as a singer without being technically great. Ian Curtis had that.

I enjoy watching any live footage of Curtis as his 'epileptic ' stage performance is entertaining to say the least . Listening to him is not so entertaining IMO !

[PeterG]

Indeed, while some singers might have charisma yet far from perfect or beautiful voices, they still have interesting voices and are interesting to listen to - Neil Young. Bob Dylan, Tom Waits, Geddy Lee being some examples.

Curtis however, IMO did not have an interesting voice nor was he intersting to listen to. He usually just sounded bored or tired or angry.

[Rufus]

Indeed, while some singers might have charisma yet far from perfect or beautiful voices, they still have interesting voices and are interesting to listen to - Neil Young. Bob Dylan, Tom Waits, Geddy Lee being some examples.

Curtis however, IMO did not have an interesting voice nor was he intersting to listen to. He usually just sounded bored or tired or angry.

I think he was too much under the influence to have any insight to what or how he was singing . Didnt they have to use the roadie to fill in on a regular basis ?

[3LockBox]

What a lot of Americans don't realise is that in their day Joy Division were not popular and most people didn't even know of them. The first most Brits knew of Joy Division was when New Order members answered questions about them in interviews due only to Curtis' suicide, and lets face it the mystery around them is only due to his suicide. There has been a helluva lot of revisionist bollox written about Joy Division that does not tally with the facts. Back then far more popular and far more well known by the public were The Stranglers, The Fall, The Cure, PiL.

Isn't this the case with a lot of artists, musical or otherwise (ahem... The Doors anyone?)

A few of the songs were good, like Love Will Tear Us Apart with its dance beat rhythm section and simple keyboard melody in juxtaposition with Curtis' disembodied, dark brooding vocals. But this approach was the band's halmark on just about every song, so its hard for me to listen to an entire album of Joy Division.

[Rufus]

Isn't this the case with a lot of artists, musical or otherwise (ahem... The Doors anyone?)

A few of the songs were good, like Love Will Tear Us Apart with its dance beat rhythm section and simple keyboard melody in juxtaposition with Curtis' disembodied, dark brooding vocals. But this approach was the band's halmark on just about every song, so its hard for me to listen to an entire album of Joy Division.

Yeah, Paul Young sang it much better !!!

[JIF]

Yeah, Paul Young sang it much better !!!

Seriously?

[Library Jon]

Any talk related to New Order or Joy Division is welcome here. Would anyone like to share any stories? Favorite albums? Least Favorite albums?

Library Jon

[Oreb]

Love both the JD albums. Fond memories of hanging out at Anthem Records (the import record shop in Sydney at the time) and hearing Unknown Pleasures over the shop stereo. Bought it then and there, joined a handful of others waiting for the place to open on the day 'Closer' was expected in...

At the time we were taken up with local heroes The Birthday Party and Cold Chisel (not as cool, we thought at the time, but still good...)

NME and Melody maker - anti-prog rags though they were - were very handy for the post-punk stuff like JD, The Pop Group, Magazine and (for the first three albums) PiL.

[GuitarGeek]

There's certain lines that leap out at me from the songs...

"I'm waiting for a guide to come and take me by the hand"

"Mother please forgive me
I'm doing the best that I can
I'm ashamed of the things I've been put through
I'm ashamed of the person I am"

"Why is it something so good
Can't function no more"

"What ya gonna do when the novelty is gone"

"Don't walk away...in silence"

Don't tell me Ian Curtis was "too under the influence" to have any real insights. The guy had epilepsy, so I don't think "under the influence" was much of an option for him.

I've never heard of them using a roadie onstage "most of the time". There's a story of him not wanting to go onstage once, late in the band's career, and they got the singer from one of the other bands on the bill to do the vocals, but the audience rebelled, so they forced Ian onstage. Depending on which version of the story you hear, the concert ended a few minutes later when Ian had a seizure (something that apparently happened more than a few times).

And I'll take Ian Curtis over Tom Waits, who perpetually sounds like he's a half hour past last call and seriously in need of a liver transplant.

[Superfly]

Closer would easily be in my top 50 albums of all time, not to mention the incredible album art. If you're really interested in the band, I recommend Peter Hook's book; Unknown Pleasures - Inside Joy Division. Quite a captivating story, told with humor and insight from a man who was there. Demystifying Ian Curtis a bit in the process.

[GuitarGeek]

Closer would easily be in my top 50 albums of all time, not to mention the incredible album art. If you're really interested in the band, I recommend Peter Hook's book; Unknown Pleasures - Inside Joy Division. Quite a captivating story, told with humor and insight from a man who was there. Demystifying Ian Curtis a bit in the process.

I'll have to look for that book. I've seen the Joy Division documentary (which I mentioned earlier in the thread) and the Control biopic (which I believe Stephen Morris said was mostly made up, but at least it was more truthful than 24 Hour Party People, the film about Tony Wilson and Factory Records).

[per anporth]

What a lot of Americans don't realise is that in their day Joy Division were not popular and most people didn't even know of them. The first most Brits knew of Joy Division was when New Order members answered questions about them in interviews due only to Curtis' suicide, and lets face it the mystery around them is only due to his suicide. There has been a helluva lot of revisionist bollox written about Joy Division that does not tally with the facts.

Really, this is just complete nonsense.

Jon Savage, in his review of Unkown Pleasures for Melody Maker (contemporary circulation 200 000+), wrote that "Unknown Pleasures may very well be one of the best, white, English, debut LPs of the year." It also got a rave review in the NME (circulation 250 000+). "Transmission" reached #4 in the UK Indie chart in 1979, whilst "Love Will Tear Us Apart" reached #13 in the UK official chart (1980). Closer (1980) reached #6 in the in the UK official album chart.

These are the facts.

[Mythos]

BOTH of the albums are amongst the greatest ever. They had some great singles too, namely Atmosphere, Love Will Tear Us Apart and Transmission. The B-sides on all three all killer too.

I saw a great documentary on Joy Division a few months ago, I think it was just called Joy Division, and there's a great bit where they play an excerpt of John Peel playing, or at least attempting to play Atmosphere. Apparently, the original single (which was actually a French import) was mastered at 33 and a third! So there's a bit of him playing the song at the wrong speed, and then sort of sheepishly admitting that he's only done it half the times he's tried playing the record, that makes a comment about the French "sending us records that don't play at the right speed".

I think I have that single, I recall having a JD single that is at 33 instead of 45...!

[Mythos]

Any talk related to New Order or Joy Division is welcome here. Would anyone like to share any stories? Favorite albums? Least Favorite albums?

Library Jon

Here is a Joy Division story: back in the very early days of their life, their label (FACTORY) also had a (very cool) band named The Durutti Column and their first album had sandpaper on both sides of it, well Ian Curtis glued the sand paper top the album cover, so if you are lucky enogh to own one of these - you own something that was touched by Ian himself...

http://www.noiseaddicts.com/2009/05/...st-punk-cover/

I saw one for sale for around $100 back in the 80's, here is one on ebay for $635...!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DURUTTI-COLU...item35c736c41b

[GuitarGeek]

I think I have that single, I recall having a JD single that is at 33 instead of 45...!

If it's the Atmosphere/Dead Souls single (the single was actually given a German title, I believe) and it's the original French issue, I believe it's quite the collector's item these days.

Anyway, finding out the legendary John Peel occasionally played records at the wrong speed made it easier for me to accept my old Spinal Tap moments during my attempts at being a "hip swinging DJ".

[Scrotum Scissor]

I find both of the first two to be somewhat uneven, but what's good there is mesmerizingly so. Side 2 of Closer stands next to almost none as far as serious "art/post-punk" gloomy contemplation goes.

I never really cared for Still, but I like the Peel Sessions and actually think that version of "Love Will Tear Us Apart" is the better one.