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Thread: BTF Italian prog vinyl reissues?

  1. #1

    BTF Italian prog vinyl reissues?

    Any thoughts on these? I am interested specifically in Dedalus - s/t (an original LP of this would be several hundred dollars more than I have )...but would love to hear any comments on their vinyl reissues in general. Any good?

  2. #2
    Great album.I have both CD and vinyl reissue.Listening CD at the moment,couldn't find LP yet.

  3. #3
    Dedalus AMS/BTF LP sounds very good to my ears.I strongly recommend it,also for pretty stunning artwork.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Modry Effekt View Post
    Dedalus AMS/BTF LP sounds very good to my ears.I strongly recommend it,also for pretty stunning artwork.
    Thanks so much for the feedback! Yeah...I love the cover of this one and thought it would be a nice one to have on LP. Have checked out the whole album on Youtube a couple of times and it's pretty killer!

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by webbcity View Post
    Thanks so much for the feedback! Yeah...I love the cover of this one and thought it would be a nice one to have on LP. Have checked out the whole album on Youtube a couple of times and it's pretty killer!
    You are welcome I have maybe 50 of these AMS/BTF vinyls.I don't buy them for the most excellent sound quality,but artwork primarily.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Modry Effekt View Post
    I have maybe 50 of these AMS/BTF vinyls.I don't buy them for the most excellent sound quality,but artwork primarily.
    That's really the only reason to buy them.

    Given that their stuff is just CD sourced, it is a waste of money if sound is the goal.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffCarney View Post
    That's really the only reason to buy them.

    Given that their stuff is just CD sourced, it is a waste of money if sound is the goal.
    I think it's mentally and physically more rewarding to play and handle vinyl,it requires some concerntration.

    Quote Originally Posted by webbcity View Post
    it's pretty killer!
    It is! one of kind album,you want play that one loud too.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by webbcity View Post
    Any thoughts on these? I am interested specifically in Dedalus - s/t (an original LP of this would be several hundred dollars more than I have )...but would love to hear any comments on their vinyl reissues in general. Any good?
    I have about half a dozen of them and in my limited experience the quality control hasn't been very good. I'm not talking about sound quality here but actual physical defects in the manufacturing process. The hole in the center of the RRR LP I bought was so badly miscut the record wouldn't even spin properly.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Brad to the Bone View Post
    I have about half a dozen of them and in my limited experience the quality control hasn't been very good. I'm not talking about sound quality here but actual physical defects in the manufacturing process. The hole in the center of the RRR LP I bought was so badly miscut the record wouldn't even spin properly.

    I used to stock BTF titles for my eBay store and getting a record that was ever truly Mint seemed almost impossible. They sent them to me unwrapped with no protection, and dings and scuffs were common. I suspect they store them with no protection. There was a "cheapness" in cover quality also. In cases where there was a Japanese or Korean reissue of the same title, their version would almost always pale in comparison as regards aesthetics.

    Where I have found their LPs helpful is when I really want the full artwork for something, but the original is super expensive and there was no repress.

    I don't recall many problems with the pressings themselves but I suspect your point can also be a concern.

  10. #10
    Thanks for the comments guys. Well damn...this is a shame. Though I am still a little torn to be honest...Yes, sound quality is important to me, but Jeff, to your point about these being CD-sourced, as long as the original CD it came from sounds good, that might be enough for me, as I've compared CD vs. LP (from same CD source) on my system before and the LP sounded better to me. I don't know though, will have to think on this one. Quality control concerns me now. May end up just going with the CD. I do love the cover, that was one of the main reasons I thought about going with vinyl. It's too bad there are no other reissues of this one for fewer bucks than the original.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by webbcity View Post
    Thanks for the comments guys. Well damn...this is a shame. Though I am still a little torn to be honest...Yes, sound quality is important to me, but Jeff, to your point about these being CD-sourced, as long as the original CD it came from sounds good, that might be enough for me, as I've compared CD vs. LP (from same CD source) on my system before and the LP sounded better to me. I don't know though, will have to think on this one. Quality control concerns me now. May end up just going with the CD. I do love the cover, that was one of the main reasons I thought about going with vinyl. It's too bad there are no other reissues of this one for fewer bucks than the original.
    Dedalus sounded good on CD. My guess is that the vinyl reissue sounds decent. They sometimes do some "remastering" but it's usually tasteful.

    The problems are usually more on things like the Fonit titles. The early CDs on Fonit were usually no-noised horribly with very primitive techniques.They sound tinny and have no life in them. Then what happens is all subsequent CD reissues of those Fonit titles keep getting mastered from those same, horrible CDs. I've tried to talk to BTF about at least tracking down old Japanese CDs where possible when this is an issue but from the guy I worked with, my sense is that they really don't give that much of a shit. Just keep cranking out titles; seems to be the MO. I even provided them with some better sources on a few things. For example, since I was in contact with their mastering engineer a few years back, I sent them Alphataurus from the old King CD which was not screwed up with no-noise like the Vinyl Magic version, but when I later heard their LP, it sounded like they used the same old 1995 Vinyl Magic source which was no-noised by Pietro Pelligrini. If they used the CDR I sent them then I'd be surprised and if they did they ruined it.

    I doubt that BTF has ever used a single tape on any of their reissues, whether vinyl or CD. Maybe one or two, I don't know, but their MO seems to be that they use a previous CD and either remaster it from there or just copy it. I would have to think they could press the majors in Italy for some tapes on at least a few titles, but as long as people keeping buying their digitally sourced garbage I guess that they don't see it as a priority. Heck, even if they just worked a deal to get fresh transfers from the labels which were then sent to them in 24/96 digital files, that would work. But to keep going back to sources that are absolute shit because of bad mastering in the late 80s/early 90s and thinking those are appropriate to use for their "180 gram" vinyl is a bit misleading. Granted they rarely mention source so I guess it's "buyer beware," but still ...

  12. #12
    Member LASERCD's Avatar
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    Some of the old Vinyl Magic releases were taken from tape: Semiramis is an example.

  13. #13
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modry Effekt View Post
    I think it's mentally and physically more rewarding to play and handle vinyl,it requires some concerntration.
    what he said!

    BRAVO!
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by webbcity View Post
    Thanks for the comments guys. Well damn...this is a shame. Though I am still a little torn to be honest...Yes, sound quality is important to me, but Jeff, to your point about these being CD-sourced, as long as the original CD it came from sounds good, that might be enough for me, as I've compared CD vs. LP (from same CD source) on my system before and the LP sounded better to me. I don't know though, will have to think on this one. Quality control concerns me now. May end up just going with the CD. I do love the cover, that was one of the main reasons I thought about going with vinyl. It's too bad there are no other reissues of this one for fewer bucks than the original.
    It might be safer to go with CD then.
    Vinyl may have flaws.For an example : I got two sealed copies of Storm Corrosion LP.Other one is very noise and cracking (no visible scratches etc.) other one plays nice and quiet.
    Some new vinyls have also like dust and dirt on them.I wonder what the heck happened to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    what he said!

    BRAVO!
    Thank bro

  15. #15
    Did you notice that Dedalus vinyl edition excludes 9 bonus tracks.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by LASERCD View Post
    Some of the old Vinyl Magic releases were taken from tape: Semiramis is an example.
    Yup. And I think their vinyl reissue was mastered from that and sounds good as a result. It was early in their adventure into vinyl. I think at that point they weren't even doing much "remastering," just throwing the CD onto vinyl. So if the CD sounded good you were in good shape.

    The more recent Semiramis papersleeve CD on BTF was, however, treated with some "heavy metal remastering." I believe that's the term their guy used when telling me he screwed that one up.

    Overall, I must say that I find their mastering to be pretty good.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Modry Effekt View Post
    Did you notice that Dedalus vinyl edition excludes 9 bonus tracks.
    Yes I did, thanks, but I think I'm okay with that. I am now swinging back towards the idea of getting the vinyl again, just for the "vinyl effect"...and it sounds as if the sound is pretty good, that's enough for me on this one. I'll take the risk and hope for an unblemished copy.

    And with a lot of these titles, I'll take whatever I can get...my sense is that in most cases the master tapes are lost, right?

    Jeff, thanks for your inside info on the Fonit situation...that sucks. Too bad that they don't care enough to spend more time on the sound. Though I suppose if profit is the number one consideration, then any extra expense in the mastering department would be seen as a bad thing (if it didn't result in more sales). It's a shame.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by webbcity View Post
    Jeff, thanks for your inside info on the Fonit situation...that sucks. Too bad that they don't care enough to spend more time on the sound. Though I suppose if profit is the number one consideration, then any extra expense in the mastering department would be seen as a bad thing (if it didn't result in more sales). It's a shame.
    Not just Fonit but that is a prime example.

    They have a good mastering engineer and I think he's even in house. He does nice work. The problem is sources.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffCarney View Post
    Not just Fonit but that is a prime example.

    They have a good mastering engineer and I think he's even in house. He does nice work. The problem is sources.
    Understood. Too bad they are unwilling to work from different sources...hell, just do a nice needledrop from an original LP, that would do it. Assuming they have access to clean copies...maybe they don't, but I'd think they would sure have a lot more access than I do.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by webbcity View Post
    Understood. Too bad they are unwilling to work from different sources...hell, just do a nice needledrop from an original LP, that would do it. Assuming they have access to clean copies...maybe they don't, but I'd think they would sure have a lot more access than I do.
    In some cases that would be a great idea.

    And especially with today's technology, they could even do some light click removal and get a really great sound. I haven't bought any of their vinyl for a while, so hopefully things are better or maybe they will soon realize needle dropping original vinyl would be a great way to go if they can't get a tape or there isn't a nice sounding CD version to use as a source.

    Some of their early vinyl did sound fine when they had decent CDs to use. IE: Jumbo, De De Lind, Semiramis ... but still when you issue 180 gram vinyl and ask a pretty good price, I think people typically deserve a little better than CD sourced mastering.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffCarney View Post
    In some cases that would be a great idea.

    And especially with today's technology, they could even do some light click removal and get a really great sound. I haven't bought any of their vinyl for a while, so hopefully things are better or maybe they will soon realize needle dropping original vinyl would be a great way to go if they can't get a tape or there isn't a nice sounding CD version to use as a source.

    Some of their early vinyl did sound fine when they had decent CDs to use. IE: Jumbo, De De Lind, Semiramis ... but still when you issue 180 gram vinyl and ask a pretty good price, I think people typically deserve a little better than CD sourced mastering.
    Yup, very true.

  22. #22
    So I did end up getting the Dedalus LP, and I have to say I'm pretty happy with it...sound is surprisingly good and it's a very quiet pressing. Maybe my ears aren't good enough to tell that it's from a CD source...or the original CD is just very well done. But as I said I generally prefer the sound of vinyl on my system anyway, so I am at least convincing myself that the fact that it's on vinyl is coloring it in a way that I like. Anyway...it sounds good and I'm happy.

  23. #23
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    How are the new PFM s on, I think Cherry Red?

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by webbcity View Post
    So I did end up getting the Dedalus LP, and I have to say I'm pretty happy with it...sound is surprisingly good and it's a very quiet pressing. Maybe my ears aren't good enough to tell that it's from a CD source...or the original CD is just very well done. But as I said I generally prefer the sound of vinyl on my system anyway, so I am at least convincing myself that the fact that it's on vinyl is coloring it in a way that I like. Anyway...it sounds good and I'm happy.
    Great.I'm happy too,you got very nice vinilo.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Modry Effekt View Post
    Great.I'm happy too,you got very nice vinilo.
    Thanks for your original comments on this. It's most definitely a very nice sounding LP.

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