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Thread: Yet Another Rant About Film Scores

  1. #1

    Yet Another Rant About Film Scores

    I was perusing YouTube this afternoon and came across a couple of action soundtracks -- the Bond film Skyfall and the soundtrack to the game Halo 4. As I listened to one and then the other, all I could think of was that these two scores were completely interchangeable. I was hearing very little in one that distinguished it from the other. I've already written about my hatred for all things Hans Zimmer, an a-melodic hack if there ever was one. But what is this trend for writing film scores that sound like they are for video games? Can no one write a melody anymore or a theme?

    I realize the golden age of film scores is long past but why is it that Howard Shore can write what is, in effect, a large-scale symphonic tone-poem for the LOTR and Hobbit films and all others seem to be able to do is write cues that are loopable?

  2. #2
    Well, the Lord Of The Rings films were treated as a proper "epic" by the studio, and they apparently gave Wassisname (sorry, I'm blanking out on the director's name) to do what he wanted. So you had director who wanted a "symphonic tone poem" of a score, and a studio willing to back such a vision.

    Meanwhile, Skyfall is just the latest installment in a franchise that should have ended 30 years ago. It's apparently treated by it's director and probably by the studio also as "merely as commodity to further our stature and wealth". Hence, you don't get the great film scores that you had in the Connery era Bond films.

    And I imagine it's the same with the glut of super hero movies (is it too late to send Arnold Schwarzenegger back to 1995 to kill Stan Lee?), third rate action movies, etc.

  3. #3
    Pendulumswingingdoomsday Rune Blackwings's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Well, the Lord Of The Rings films were treated as a proper "epic" by the studio, and they apparently gave Wassisname (sorry, I'm blanking out on the director's name) to do what he wanted. So you had director who wanted a "symphonic tone poem" of a score, and a studio willing to back such a vision.

    Meanwhile, Skyfall is just the latest installment in a franchise that should have ended 30 years ago. It's apparently treated by it's director and probably by the studio also as "merely as commodity to further our stature and wealth". Hence, you don't get the great film scores that you had in the Connery era Bond films.

    And I imagine it's the same with the glut of super hero movies (is it too late to send Arnold Schwarzenegger back to 1995 to kill Stan Lee?), third rate action movies, etc.
    I think one issue is the improved surround sound and IMAX theaters that demand more dynamic (the buzz word apparently for ear shattering, brass laden, crescendo-from-note-one music) soundtracks, so they all are formulated accordingly. No more dark Tangerine Dream or Vangelis in "blockbusters"...

    The other thing on video games-as the graphics and concepts become better, I think there's a trend to create video games to be "interactive action movies", so I can understand using "movie theme" music to add to the experience.
    "Alienated-so alien I go!"

  4. #4
    As far as I can tell, video games are where good work by good artists is being done. Some of the action stuff is cookie cutter but a lot of it is really nice- sorry, I'm not a gamer so I can't cite examples but I've heard a lot of bits and pieces. My daughter just played a PS3 game called Unfinished Swan and the music was gorgeous.

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  6. #6
    Member Oreb's Avatar
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    I think the turning point was back in 1968 when Stanley Kubrick rejected Alex North's score for 2001 and chose to make use of pre-written music.

    I'm not critical of that decision in that case because I think the musical choices were superb for the film - but it paved the way for generations of lesser artists to use musical choices in the film as a sort of Greek Chorus, self-conscious, capitalising on existing associations, being increasingly 'hip' and ironic.

    I assume also licensing fees are less than the cost of commissioning and scoring/recording an original work.

    I have to say, though, that even very mainstream movies can still surprise me. I thought Danny Elfman's score for Oz the Great and Powerful was pretty fine.

    Does it matter that this waste of time is what makes a life for you?

  7. #7
    Danny Elfman was one composer I liked up until I discovered exactly how much he was "borrowing" from other composers. Quite a bit from obscure scores of the 50s and 60s.

  8. #8
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oreb View Post
    I think the turning point was back in 1968 when Stanley Kubrick rejected Alex North's score for 2001 and chose to make use of pre-written music.
    And that sentimental hack Spielberg and his sentimental hack composer John Williams. You think Danny Elfman steals???

  9. #9
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    Some of the music in the World Of Warcraft games is excellent.

    I've always loved the scores for Requiem For A Dream and The Human Stain. Really dramatic stuff that stuck with me after seeing the films, making me want to seek them out.

    I realize this is not a rant, I just felt like mentioning it.
    Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.

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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    And that sentimental hack Spielberg and his sentimental hack composer John Williams. You think Danny Elfman steals???
    Well, I think early on Williams didn't really steal; he indulged influences and homages at a time when a romantic/neoclassical score was really unhip and brought it back. He was never as cool as Jerry Godlsmith but he wrote good stuff. A New Hope is a really great score imho, and so is Raiders. THEN he turned into a sentimental plagiarizing hack.

  11. #11
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trurl View Post
    A New Hope is a really great score imho, and so is Raiders.
    Whenever Raiders is mentioned, I have to point out how much I'd love a good mellotron-heavy prog cover of "The Map Room/Dawn" from that soundtrack.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    Whenever Raiders is mentioned, I have to point out how much I'd love a good mellotron-heavy prog cover of "The Map Room/Dawn" from that soundtrack.
    That would work!!

  13. #13
    Member Oreb's Avatar
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    Williams' score for Tintin is first rate IMO.

    Does it matter that this waste of time is what makes a life for you?

  14. #14
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Splicer View Post
    I was perusing YouTube this afternoon and came across a couple of action soundtracks -- the Bond film Skyfall and the soundtrack to the game Halo 4. As I listened to one and then the other, all I could think of was that these two scores were completely interchangeable. I was hearing very little in one that distinguished it from the other. I've already written about my hatred for all things Hans Zimmer, an a-melodic hack if there ever was one. But what is this trend for writing film scores that sound like they are for video games? Can no one write a melody anymore or a theme?

    I realize the golden age of film scores is long past but why is it that Howard Shore can write what is, in effect, a large-scale symphonic tone-poem for the LOTR and Hobbit films and all others seem to be able to do is write cues that are loopable?

    The are two main answers:

    (1) The advent of "Royalty-Free" Soundtrack Construction kits in the early 2000s

    Composers lay down a full score, but they also Break the parts into loopable sections and add "alternate parts" ( i.e. maybe a fretless bass, not in the original score, that plays the basic score melody). The producers buy the package and the movies' audio engineer (or whoever) uses the parts and mixes them as needed. If a Production Company is low on funds and previous movies didnt sell well, they maybe inclined to reuse the audio from a previous movie. Actually, this has been going on for decades: cash-poor Desilu in the 1960s used a lot of the same Jerry Goldsmith incidental music over in different shows. 60s Star Trek and Man from U.N.C.L.E. both shared the same music on many occasions

    (2) Saturated Internet Filled with Composers giving away "Royalty Free Compositions" just for credits

    'nuff said

  15. #15
    Member bill g's Avatar
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    Well I don't think the entire genre is void of melody or feeling. Granted, something like 'Lord of the Rings' I think would have wholly benefited from a Bo Hansson type compositional approach, but there are isolated films, such as 'A Beautiful Mind' have some pretty intriguing music, and some lovely understated music in films such as 'Another Earth' or even 'Primer'. I do wish artists that could do some real intriguing soundtracks, given half a chance, such as Tony Banks, would be utlitzed instead of the same old typical hollywood film score moguls.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Oreb View Post
    Williams' score for Tintin is first rate IMO.
    brilliant

  17. #17
    Member PotatoSolution's Avatar
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    I'll cut Skyfall some slack, as it's one of the few big budget films made in the last decade that wasn't utter shit-balls.

  18. #18
    Member Oreb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PotatoSolution View Post
    I'll cut Skyfall some slack, as it's one of the few big budget films made in the last decade that wasn't utter shit-balls.
    A lesson score collectors learn very early is that there is no necessary link between film quality and score quality.

    Does it matter that this waste of time is what makes a life for you?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    I tend to find with the few soundtrack composers I would listen to, I don't go in for all that lavish pomp and circumstance (same as I've never been into films of that ilk either by Steven Spielberg, George Lucas et al.). I admire people like John Barry and Ennio Morricone who know how to use space, and also have a taste for the offbeat in their use of instrumentation. I love all that funky 60s/70s stuff too by people like Lalo Schifrin and Quincy Jones. Roy Budd did some things I enjoy as well, and a lot of those eccentric 60s/70s TV show themes by Laurie Johnson, Ron Grainer etc.

    I think some of the most stunning use of music in film I've ever seen remains those Sergio Leone Westerns. There's such a dramatic grandeur to those- 'Once Upon A Time In The West' has barely a word spoken in the first half hour, when there is sound it's generally Ennio Morricone's score, and what a score- I remember being absolutely glued to it when I first saw it due to that sweeping main theme and 'The Man With The Harmonica'. The last 20 or so minutes of 'The Good, The Bad and The Ugly' are equally amazing, with things like 'The Ecstasy Of Gold' and 'The Trio'.
    Talking about TV music during the 70's, I would add Dudley Simpson's work on Doctor Who in there as well. I like the way he mixed orchestral instruments with synthesizers. The Sea Devils story features a score from Malcolm Clarke that was done entirely on the BBC Radiophonic Workshop's EMS Synthi 100.

    And Morricone's work on the Leone "Man With No Name" trilogy is pretty amazing too, I agree.

  20. #20
    Oh No! Bass Solo! klothos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Talking about TV music during the 70's, I would add Dudley Simpson's work on Doctor Who in there as well.
    When it comes to 70s TV Music, Barry Gray's theme to Season 1 of "Space: 1999" is hard to beat

  21. #21
    Member AncientChord's Avatar
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    Although way past his prime, I have NEVER been as impressed or bowled over by any other soundtrack composer as much as by Ennio Morricone. A living soundtrack God IMO!
    Day dawns dark...it now numbers infinity.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by klothos View Post
    When it comes to 70s TV Music, Barry Gray's theme to Season 1 of "Space: 1999" is hard to beat
    Well, if we're talking theme music, the early 70's remix of Delia Derbyshire's realization of the Doctor Who theme rules above all else.

  23. #23
    Member rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AncientChord View Post
    Although way past his prime, I have NEVER been as impressed or bowled over by any other soundtrack composer as much as by Ennio Morricone. A living soundtrack God IMO!
    Thomas Newman

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Thomas Newman
    Yeah, I would probably rate him #1 of those working today.

  25. #25
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oreb View Post
    Williams' score for Tintin is first rate IMO.
    Did the movie suck balls? It had to, right?

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