Hugh Burns is a guitarist; Clive Bunker is the drummer on the album. But you're right about Collins being credited only with vocals.Originally Posted by Dave (in MA)
Hugh Burns is a guitarist; Clive Bunker is the drummer on the album. But you're right about Collins being credited only with vocals.
Very interesting this thread. I remember talking to John in 97 at a Crimson playback. He had Thomas Lang on drums at the time. A huge monster technician now. John said Thomas was the best drummer he'd worked with. What comes accross in his statement is that groove and feel are what does it for him on reflection. Collins always had plenty of that .
Did he say anything about Johnathan Schang?
Certainly, Leslie Hunt is the creme de la crème of vocalist he's ever shared the stage with. But I digress...
Mr. Wetton just tweeted this:
Talking about great drummers I have played with, must mention Marco Minnemann, Narada &Tom Lang.There's also 1 more coming next year
Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally
I'm sure Carl Palmer is surprised!
One might also mention Paul Thompson and Lee Kerslake.
was there ever any doubt that phil was a world class rock drummer?
And the other guy Terry Bozzio in UK when Bruford quit !!!!
Last edited by Rufus; 06-25-2013 at 01:32 PM.
I just hope Wetton hasn't hit the bottle again as his judgement here seems a bit clouded!!!I know you don't like Phil Collins but come on, accept what John Wetton has said. This is from one of his peers as well, not some 'drum expert' on internet forums or some meaningless 'drumming poll'. And why should 'evidence' be needed, presumably John Wetton knows who he has played with!
Phil is a superb drummer, that's blindingly obvious IMHO. Those who are more into the technical, 'look how fast I can play' side of drumming may not appreciate how musical his playing is. That is to say, lots of memorable licks and fills can be found on his work across his career. And again, unlike some more technical 'prog' players, he can also really swing and play a groove.
Maybe one day he'll get his due as, like Jubal states, one of the most talented, rounded musicians of the 'rock era'. What I find particularly startling about him is that here was a guy who wrote very little in the way of 'songs' whilst in Genesis during the 1970s (though obviously he contributed a lot to arrangements etc.) and largely focussed on complex jazz-rock/fusion instrumentals in Brand X, yet dominated the 1980s pop charts. Whatever people here feel about his solo career, I find it amazing how he found that 'common touch' that allowed him to cross over to a massive audience.
That's not even funny.
Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally
Yeah, his judgment is clouded ...
I'll accept reason when his peers vote him into The Modern Drummers Hall of Fame ! Even Ringo made it !
D'oh, but more evidence how spotty the credits are. My copy doesn't even have a booklet, just a one-sided sheet touting the presence of Moore, Collins and Argent on the front and the back is blank.
Seriously, why do you give this so much credence?
Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally
Because its the equilavent of an Oscar for drummers.
I prefer Bill Bruford, but still, Phil Collins is an amazing drummer. Apples and Oranges.
No, it's not. It's a freaking reader's poll, i.e. a popularity contest.
And even if it was, you're saying that the Oscar is required for a film to be well-regarded?
Last edited by Scott Bails; 06-25-2013 at 03:54 PM.
Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally
Picked this up in Australia in a discount bin because it had Phil Collins and Rod argent in the group. That's the same way I discovered Brand X. Anyway The CD says its PC, Gary Moore and Rod Argent. All of the titles are written by Lancaster. Really like this disk and quite different then my expectations.
Jack Lancaster has a disk called Skinningrove Bay with the same songs.
According to secretvault blogspot the musicians are:
The list of musicians appearing is here:
http://secretvault.blogspot.com/2008...#ixzz2XGCOzJ6t
Jack Lancaster also has an album called Wild Connections which is a different release with different tracks.
So is the Oscars.
I actually don't care who says Phil Collins was a great drummer, because I know he was, and I don't care who says he wasn't for the same reason.
Agreed, but at least with the Oscars you have folks in the industry voting, not just folks off the street.
Neither is very valid, IMO.
Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally
Phil Collins is probably my favorite drummer ever. Instantly recognizable yet not intrusive.
Progtopia is a podcast devoted to interviewing progressive rock, metal, and electronic artists from the past and present, featuring their songs and exclusive interviews. Artists interviewed on the show have included Steve Hackett, Sound of Contact, Larry Fast, Circus Maximus, Anubis Gate, Spock's Beard, and many more. http://progtopia.podomatic.com See you in a land called Progtopia!
yThat huge drum sound was a result of the producer. According to Wiki it was discovered by fluke in the recording studio with no deliberate intention by Collins to create it ! His drumming in the 80's was 50% drum machine & 50% organic ! Very skillful indeed !
I would rate Collins abilities in this order .
1.Singer
2.Songwriter
3.Actor
4. Producer
5.Drummer
Last edited by Rufus; 06-25-2013 at 05:26 PM.
As a lifelong drummer, I have to say if you rate Phil as an actor over a drummer, YOU may be the one hitting the bottle rather than John Wetton
Phil is not one of the best drummers on the planet- not by a long shot. However to suggest that he is not an incredibly energetic and musical drummer (especially in the "prog rock" genre) is just silly. You are free to hate his guts all you want, or even just to dislike his playing, but saying his playing dosen't rate because of this personal dislike is preposterous.
As a jazz drummer, I don't personally care for Dave Weckl and his endless barrage of speed over finesse, but I would be a fool not to rate him technically, as his abilities on a technical level are beyond question. Similarly, I have met some "clean" jazz drummers who do not rate Elvin Jones, because of his rough, very personal style. Elvin is my favorite drummer of all time. It is OK to have your own taste, and allow that to dictate your opinions of a player vis a vis what you want to listen to, but dismissing them completely because they are not in your own wheelhouse is willfully stubborn and unreasonable.
"The Modern Drummers Hall Of Fame", B.T.W., is worse than a joke. A reader's poll is no more an indication of a player's actual merit than getting voted into office is an indication of honesty in a politician- I can think of hundreds of innovative, creative and even groundbreaking players not in that particular "hall of fame"- and many of those will probably never see the inside of any hall of fame.
Last edited by SunshipVoyager; 06-25-2013 at 05:59 PM.
"He who binds to himself a joy doth the winged life destroy. But he who kisses the joy as it flies lives in Eternity's sunrise..." - William Blake
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