Being a long time metalhead, and proud of it, even I took a little while to warm up to the idea of these kind of vocalizations. Sabbath, Maiden and Metallica were the bands I was drawn into, because I like melody. There was a time in the late 80's when bands were taking things to extremes, and I just did not get it. The band that made me get it was the one and only Celtic Frost. Tom Warrior was the one that took the extreme first. Many people argue over where it started, but for my money the first extreme vocals that dominated the whole style starts with his first band Hellhammer. The band was not taken seriously at first, and now only in hindsight do people give Tom the credit for laying the most important groundwork for Death Metal. After that album, he refined the vocals and the music, but only a little.
Upon hearing it for the first time, for some reason "Morbid Tales" did not bother me. I got over my whole "they scream because they can't sing" bias, and just enjoyed the sheer violence of the sounds. It worked like a horror show for your ears. After that I started looking for new extremes and could never get enough.
I laugh when people say "it all sounds the same". So ignorant. There are so many variations on growled vocals, just as many as their are speaking, rapping and singing voices. Opeth growls are very different than Obituary growls. Chuck from the band Death changed his voice over his whole career, as he got older he upped the pitch and his words became very easy to understand. If they all sounded the same, then us metal fans wouldn't like one guy more than another. Just a silly thing to say, especially from people who might be used to hearing "All those prog bands sound the same, too many notes, wanking..." Just say you don't like it and move on.
Love Waits and Beefheart but still am not a fan of cookie. I have some Pantera and Kittie. That's as close as I get.
I guess it depends on what else is happening in the music. It seems that such vocals are an integral part of the heavy qualities of the music. I like BtBaM, for example, and Opeth. I also like the way that extreme vocals are used, for example, in Mr. Bungle and Sleepytime Gorilla Museum. I can't claim any particular expertise on too many such bands, though.
It can wear thin pretty quickly however. A steady diet of cookie monster vox doesn't work so well. That's why it's important for the music to have some other interesting qualities.
Hired on to work for Mr. Bill Cox, a-fixin' lawn mowers and what-not, since 1964.
"Arguing with an idiot is like playing chess with a pigeon. It'll just knock over all the pieces, shit on the board, and strut about like it's won anyway." Anonymous
“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” George Carlin
I don't *get* the cookie monster vocals, but I'll keep trying. I've got two Sleepytime Gorilla Museum albums, so that should be more than enough.
Ian Beabout
Mixing and mastering engineer. See ya at ProgDay !
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Are the vocals extreme enough?
First world problems.
We're trying to build a monument to show that we were here
It won't be visible through the air
And there won't be any shade to cool the monument to prove that we were here. - Gene Parsons, 1973
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.
BTW: Obviously the OP meant "cookie monster" vocals, not Beefhaert or Waites type of vocals
my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.
Singing Cookie kills vocal chords. There is no way to sing like that for 30 years. Don't tell me you can do it if you do it "correctly". Since this form of "singing" destroys the voice of the singer, it is by its very nature - self defeating. People, 20 years from now will probably laugh at this kind of singing, like we laugh at 70's "hip" TV shows. Its not talent, its not technically difficult, its just kind of - well, silly.
Cookie monster is charming after 30 years, but he's cute and funny. This way of sounding "extreme" will become passé sure as any other passing fad of the past. Its not like the timeless sounds of Say, Sinatra, or even the more contemporary Steve Perry. Those voices will endure. If you consider this just dumping on the cookie, I'm sorry. I really think there are real, concrete reasons why the cookie is doomed to be a nothing but a blip on the history of music.
I got nothin' :
...avoiding any implication that I have ever entertained a cognizant thought.
live samples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwbCFGbAtFc
https://youtu.be/AEE5OZXJioE
https://soundcloud.com/yodelgoat/yod...om-a-live-show
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUe3YhCjy6g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VOCJokzL_s
I never had any problem with them.
So Just Eric, do you like Genesis now, too?
You are a funny goat. You are also wrong on ALL counts, proven by history and facts. The singers for Obituary, Celtic Frost and many other bands have been touring and recording using this style for over 20 years now. It already has been around since the 80s. And yes, there are ways to do it without hurting your voice, and even voice coaches to show you how. But please let your ignorance shine some more. As a singer that has actually done it, I can tell you from personal experience that you are so wrong it is beyond funny. Way to spout off on something you know NOTHING about. As far as it being a fad, it is funny that extreme metal was one of the few forms of metal that did not take a hit in popularity back when the grunge trend supposedly killed metal. In fact extreme metal got even bigger, and now the styles are now appearing in commercials, other music forms and even in some popular radio formats.
I got nothin' :
...avoiding any implication that I have ever entertained a cognizant thought.
live samples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwbCFGbAtFc
https://youtu.be/AEE5OZXJioE
https://soundcloud.com/yodelgoat/yod...om-a-live-show
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUe3YhCjy6g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VOCJokzL_s
I had to warm up to them too, but now I love them. You have to take them into context, as metal is a genre that focuses on aggression and loudness as part of its image. If you get past the growls, many of the musicians are very talented and very innovative.
"Alienated-so alien I go!"
Opeth was the gateway drug. Found the growls silly and annoying prior to that. But Opeth was just so incredibly awesome to me, it opened my mind to the idea. There really are good and bad growled vocals...I know the haters will scoff and say it's all the same, but it really isn't. For me Mikael Akerfeldt is still the best, although is he using that style less these days.
Good. Just in time for them to go out of style.I used to hate growled vocals, now I love them.
We're trying to build a monument to show that we were here
It won't be visible through the air
And there won't be any shade to cool the monument to prove that we were here. - Gene Parsons, 1973
Yodel Jupiter - PE has PM's.
"My choice early in life was either to be a piano player in a whorehouse or a politician, and to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference"
President Harry S. Truman
First off, I much prefer instrumental music, so I would definitely prefer bands that use these types of vocals to not...but that's only because I wish most bands wouldn't use lyrics at all.
That said, I don't really have a problem with them...especially if they aren't the focal point of the music (or at least not the focal point for too long)...but this too applies to all vocal styles. The thing I like about them most, is it seems to be a way to contort the voice into acting more like an instrument than a normal voice. The problem I have with them is that they are trying to still convey lyrics or lyrical content (which I just don't believe they are well suited to do). (I'd also prefer if they scraped the words all together just for vocal utterances or a jibberish language that just emphasized the sound of the words, not the meanings.)
I'll also tack on the usual plain/fence sitting remark....if it's handled well, it's certainly not a problem, but if it's handled bad it is. Meaning, if they are way up front in the mix and dominant everything I'd certainly have a bigger problem with it, than an instance where they are more buried/part of the sound as a whole (a good example of this is Car Bomb [at least on the album w^w^ww^w^...or whatever it is).
Please don't ask questions, just use google.
Never let good music get in the way of making a profit.
I'm only here to reglaze my bathtub.
It depends on the music they are part of. I think Opeth are a very musically mediocre outfit, and the vocals are certainly not helpful. But I think Agalloch are outstanding musically and the vocals don't bother me there.
That said, I'd probably like Agalloch even more without them.
Does it matter that this waste of time is what makes a life for you?
I've been exposed to death/harsh vocals for a few years now, cause my son listens to a lot of death metal. Sometimes those vocals are irritating and other times they don't bother me. my general consensus, however, is that there's a LOT of great music in that genre. I wish I could run it through (karaoke) software to turn some of it into instrumentals. That said, I do have an appreciation for the variety of 'harsh' vocals/growling in the genre. Initially it all sounded the same, but after a while I realized there are a lot of subtle differences - again, variations - in growling/harsh vocals, depending on the person doing them. This may or may not be a good comparison, but maybe it's like the metal version of turntabling - easy to dismiss if you don't understand it, but an art form nonetheless.
Last edited by davis; 06-13-2013 at 09:46 AM.
You are correct sir, I cannot Yodel. In case, you are wondering, I'm also not a goat. I think its a cool name, My daughter gave it to me. Thanks for inquiring. It's still not as stupid as cookie Monster voice. By the way, are you really Japanese, or do you just turn that way when you are in the bathroom?
--- Blammo!
I got nothin' :
...avoiding any implication that I have ever entertained a cognizant thought.
live samples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwbCFGbAtFc
https://youtu.be/AEE5OZXJioE
https://soundcloud.com/yodelgoat/yod...om-a-live-show
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUe3YhCjy6g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VOCJokzL_s
For the most part growl vocals are pure comedy. The couldn't have done better if they had dressed in colorful clothing and painted their noses red. Taking comedy music to the next level. Frank Zappa would have been proud.
"Strange, he never asks for a second cup of coffee at home..."
I couldn't get into growl vocals until I started watching Metalocalypse. Dethklok rules! Now I do them myself- I even covered one of our own songs
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