Forgive me if this has been posted before - I couldn't find anything here. Here's a link to the New York Daily News story - typical over the top headline - and pretty amusing comments section too:
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertain...icle-1.1360504
You know, I remember all the grief directed at Micky Mantle when he received his liver transplant, after a lifetime of heavy drinking. So I understand people having a fit over Reed getting a liver as well. But I imagine plenty of people who need a liver in the first place are due to heavy drinking. Don't know the stats on that of course, but I bet its a decent percentage. The headline is ridiculous of course, but it's a NY tabloid, the Daily News and NY Post are about the same, both pretty awful.
I'm sad to admit I had no idea Lou's health was so dire. Not sure how I missed this until today. I wish him a full and speedy recovery and hope he uses this new lease on life to create more music.
Last edited by FrippWire; 06-02-2013 at 03:15 PM.
The real problem with Mickey Mantle's liver transplant was that he actually had 2. The doctors/hospital were so hopeful for the good press that would come with a successful procedure that they neglected due diligence: they didn't screen for any cancer that would ultimately spread to his new liver and kill him.
Which is exactly what happened.
Do you think that your neighbor or sibling would have been treated with the same kid gloves? Mickey was Mickey & he could come up with the cash.
Lou Reed went to Ohio because the wait for a liver transplant is shorter in that state than it is in NY. Laurie claiming that NY hospitals are dysfunctional is pure smoke screen.
I've got a bike you can ride it if you like
You don't have to like the curmudgeonly way that Lou Reed appears to behave in interviews to appreciate the quality of some (not all!) of his work. I wish Lou well and a happy rest of his life.
Being a Brit, I didn't know the story about Micky Mantle. For my non-European PE people who may not know, the very first superstar footballer in the UK emerged in the '60s - a Northern Irishman called George Best. He was amazingly gifted, handsome and flawed. The twilight years of his career were blighted by alcohol. He had a high profile liver transplant, but sadly failed to fix the underlying issue and died early of liver failure.
Norman
He spent his money on "booze, babes and fast cars". And the rest, he said, he "squandered". Sadly, Gazza is following in his footsteps. Except he's already broke.Originally Posted by Thebigdipper
As for Lou Reed, I'll be upset if he got any special privileges or circumvented the normal line or waiting period. Why should he get special treatment?
You could ask David Crosby, Greg Allman, Jack Bruce, Steve Jobs ( from the great beyond)
To be fair sometimes it was Hep C, or Liver cancer ( not just this list but in general ), rather than booze and the needle.
My wife had a kidney pancreas transplant in 1993 after a 3 year wait with a couple of near misses.
The wait is excruciating , the cost astounding, and the continuing cost of meds and checkups is a permanent burden.
Anyone who receives such a gift should be grateful and hopefully modify their behavior.
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-- Aristotle
Nostalgia, you know, ain't what it used to be. Furthermore, they tells me, it never was.
“A Man Who Does Not Read Has No Appreciable Advantage Over the Man Who Cannot Read” - Mark Twain
It may also be because the Cleveland Clinic is one of the top and most well respected hospitals in the United States. We had a friend, who about 10 years ago, had to have a stint put into an artery in her brain due to an aneurism. Her doctors here in Michigan insisted that she have the procedure done at the Cleveland Clinic because they had the expertise in the field. In the midwest CC is considered to be on a par with the Mayo Clinic when it comes to many procedures.
Steve Sly
There are enough opportunities for people to donate their organs that we shouldn't even have to worry about who gets what. I'm damned happy that Lou gets a new liver. He fucking earned it. Same goes for David Crosby. I wish Mickey Mantle and Mick Ronson were still here, because they gave more than they took. I hope to God that if I ever need a liver or a kidney or a heart that I'll get it, but I'm not not nearly as deserving, that is if there has to be some sort of measurement for qualification.
Not if they were heavy drinkers, they didn't.
Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally
My point was that imo they earned a second lease on life due to the their contributions, which if somehow inspired by drugs and/or alcoholism, then I'm OK with that. I choose to not be judgmental about how they got to this point. There's a difference between a disease, which is what addiction is, and "bad behavior".
You're making my point.
Many people have their disease and find ways to avoid the behavior.
Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally
That's a knock-off of the WC Fields quote, "I spent half my money on gambling, alcohol and wild women. The other half I wasted."
Yeah, I think some parent of a child in need might think it absurd that a celebrity gets any special consideration, as though their contribution to society is any more worthy.
And many people don't or can't whether by choice or otherwise. Again, I choose not to judge or to impose a death sentence on someone because they did not get the help they needed by my own or someone else's standards.
yeah, being foolish, irresponsible, or just plain stupid should have the luxury of double standards in terms of accountability. it's all good.
I have a relative who needed a liver transplant because of her abuses of youth (drugs, booze). She also said that people who have done drugs or booze are on the bottom of the list. However, organ donations, if I am correct, go by "who is the most compatible candidate" as well, although children up until recently were "if no adult is compatible".yeah, being foolish, irresponsible, or just plain stupid should have the luxury of double standards in terms of accountability. it's all good.
"Alienated-so alien I go!"
It's a Federal law that you have to be a resident in the state where the transplant is performed. This was enacted in an attempt to mitigate against any unfairness when an organ becomes available by trying to level the playing field. So, because Lou received his liver at the Cleveland Clinic it was that he was a resident of Ohio where, compared to NY, the waiting time is much shorter.
Laurie's statements about NY hospitals is pure smokescreen. That's how the beautiful people stay beautiful.
Anyone want to guess the name of the US Senator who sponsored that law? It's someone you all know & love.
I've got a bike you can ride it if you like
and-here's the politics...
Last edited by Rune Blackwings; 10-27-2013 at 06:49 PM. Reason: kumquats....kumquats everywhere...
"Alienated-so alien I go!"
You do not wait for an organ in your own state alone. My wife received her transplant in Washington DC with organs from a child from Pennsylvania. We are Virginia residents.
You , or your transplant coordinator team can register you in multiple transplant centers.
Your ability to be available to receive a transplant from a given transplant center is the patients responsibility. Time is generally very short.
If a patient has the resources to get where an organ is available with the right matches, they can 'jump ahead'.
Cadaver Organs are moved around the country all of the time.
There are scoring systems for each organ or group based on wait times, health of a patient, antigen matches.
The scoring pages for livers is 26 pages long http://optn.transplant.hrsa.gov/Poli...s/policy_8.pdf.
It covers pediatric, adult and in between.
If patients in a given area are higher on the 'list', and have good antigen matches, AND are healthy enough to survive the surgery they will receive 'local' organs.
Otherwise they wait for something from outside of their area.
Newer rules were set up starting in 2006 to address changes in diagnosis, organ availability, and the gaming of the system by Doctors on behalf of their patients.
http://optn.transplant.hrsa.gov/poli...s/policies.asp, these are the most recent I could find.
kind of rambling, sorry
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-- Aristotle
Nostalgia, you know, ain't what it used to be. Furthermore, they tells me, it never was.
“A Man Who Does Not Read Has No Appreciable Advantage Over the Man Who Cannot Read” - Mark Twain
You are correct in everything you say.
For the sake of brevity I did not delve into details.
The #1 criterion is tissue match.
The #2 criterion is recipient availability.
The #3 criterion is the current state of health of the potential recipient.
Given the relative population size in contiguous states, transplant domains often overlap state boundaries. If, however, let's say a heart becomes available in Texas & there is a match living in Texas & another in Rhode Island, the right of 1st refusal goes to the person living in Texas.
The sad twist in this process is the wait list. Each state/transplant domain has its own wait list which is created by it's population. Simply put: how long would it take to get an organ & find a recipient in California vs. Montana?
I cast no aspersions on why an organ is damaged. I do, however, vilify those recipients who continue bad behavior. I also detest those people who have easy access to the media & create smokescreens, typically putting others in a less favorable light, to cover up their own shenanigans. Are you listening Laurie Anderson?
I've got a bike you can ride it if you like
Do you really think she sought the media out, rather than the other way around? Who did she cast in an unfavorable light?
This is a very good discussion. "Keep on & keep civilized."
I've got a bike you can ride it if you like
I'm sure the media sought her out once the news broke that Lou was going to have or had the transplant.
When answering a question as to why, as nearly life-long residents of NYC, they sought care at the Cleveland Clinic, she answered by saying that the NY hospitals are "so dysfunctional." I don't know what roadblocks they had to face in trying to get a transplant in NY/NYC, but I don't think they were as silly & unnecessary as she would have everyone believe. I believe that she simply didn't want to admit that they did whatever it took to get that transplant done.
I almost forgot... She did mention that didn't like the idea that the NYC hospitals didn't pipe her music into their elevators whereas "O Superman" could be heard all over the Cleveland Clinic.
I've got a bike you can ride it if you like
I try not to be judgmental about these things. I think there are probably very few people in this world who lead 100% totally healthy life styles. Whether it is drink, drugs, food, smoking, lack of exercise or the many other vices that people have it is not a black and white situation in most cases, and not always clear what “healthy” is. In the 50’s people thought Red Meat and Butter were healthy. In the early 80’s people thought Cocaine had no ill effects. True that drinking, smoking and drugs have a negative effect on health somewhat depending on amount of consumption, but there are very few in this world without a vice or two (myself included). In the case of children I can see where a fairly clear definition, but once people become adults the line is much more of a grey area.
I had a guy who worked for me for the past few years, (who has since passed away unfortunately), was on the list waiting for a Kidney transplant. This person was in his late 60’s with a bunch of other health problems. I have no clue about his lifestyle up to the point when I met him in 2010. Did a younger person deserve a kidney before him? I can tell you he did not think so, faced with the reality of his situation. It is a very difficult situation, and in the end I don’t know what determined where he was on the list. This man eventually did get a transplant, but only lived about 3 months after that. He never came back to work, so I do not know all of the details about what eventually happened.
Steve Sly
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