Will we ever know the story of Jaxon's exit from VDGG?

[gregory]

[QUOTE=olivetti;4593]from Sofa Sound Newsletter
31/March 2007
http://www.sofasound.com/nlmar07.htm

...

it became clear that David seemed to have difficulty in understanding
what we had mutually agreed and that he was struggling to make the leap of faith which
being in this group has always involved. This put him into conflict with us as a unit and as individuals.

What was Jackson struggling for, and why, I completely don't get. Leap of faith sounds esoteric.

After an increasingly fractious series of events (which I do *not* propose to detail)
it became clear to Guy, Hugh and I that whatever happened in the future we were
not going to be able to continue being in a group with David.

And this is very sad. Without Jackson it is NOT the same band. No cloudy talk about 'unit' would ever replace Jackson's unique style. I suspect some ego problems, as it once had happened in 1972.

Only then did we formally announce David's departure. Since then we have tried to maintain
a silence on these matters which we hope has been taken as dignified rather than secretive,
which emphasised the positive nature of our move forward rather than retrospective bitterness."

Retrospective bitterness, that's the turning point.

[Trane]

Not the case; unlike in the '70s, VdGG isn't the main gig for any of the members. Guy's main gig is teaching, Hugh's is his organ building business. They'll do short tours around Guy's teaching schedule and then be inactive for several months. It's not the prime source of income for any of them. It's the coolest part-time, secondary job one could have (who else gets to supplement their income by touring the world to adoring fans in sold out clubs and auditoriums? Sign me up!)

Well, in that case, it becomes blurrier again... since both Evans and Jaxon are in the teaching world, they'd have more or less the same disponibilities and schedules.... Therefore Jaxon could tour, if it's possible for Evans to do it...

So there could be something more than just schedules and commitment... imho, of course

[gregory]

Rarely mentioned that Jackson was (is) quite unique flautist. His flute parts for VdGG have no analogues in rock music. Just out of this world. He was by all means the great musician for VdGG. And they loose, it's the terrible loss for them, the absence of Jackson. Their last instrumental effort is a total failure, IMO.

[NorthNY Mark]

And thank God for that; like em or not. VDGG has managed to retain its creative spark into the new millennium, and remain as vital as it ever was.

While I obviously liked Jaxon in the band, at this point, two studio and two live records later, I'm just fine without him, too.

I wish I could agree fully. I do agree partially, in that I'm glad they continue to move forward and make new music, and I was thrilled to be able to catch them live last summer. However, I don't believe they are anywhere near as "vital" as they were with Jaxon--something is definitely missing, to me, both live and in the studio. I'm not even sure they should call themselves VdGG, as Jaxon's "voice" is almost as central to their identity as that of Hammill. I'm not sure I would have said that before the release of A Grounding in Numbers, which I found particularly lackluster aside from a few moments here and there (and I know you disagree, John).

I love VdGG, but I do wish they would consider auditioning another instrumentalist, as I feel the trio format doesn't really allow them to live up to their potential. I understand what people are saying about the longstanding chemistry, but we have to remember that at some point Jaxon would have joined the group via an audition--perhaps their next member could end up with the same degree of musical chemistry and allow this phase of their history to become as illustrious as their '70s phase. With the trio, I just don't see that happening.

[per anporth]

I think I'm with Mark, here. I respect what they're doing as a trio, & admire the way that they continue to explore new musical horizons. But, for me, the sound just doesn't engage in the way that it did with Jaxon on board.

I don't see that they could ever take a new instrumentalist on board now. The core of the band is just too tight - the kind of re-imagination of the sound & make-up of the band in 1977 just wouldn't be possible for them today.

Count me as another who is sad that, after all they'd been through, for these long years, Jaxon & Hammill are rent asunder. To take just one example - the playing on the 1978 Radio 1 In Concert gig bespeaks a deep & special empathy between the pair of them.

[bRETT]

If they stick with the trio, I'd like to see them step outside the piano/organ/drums lineup which seems to be their default mode. Maybe some guitar/bass/drums, or try using synths (there were at least some on World Record). If they bribng anyone else in, it would probably have to be someone connected to the band already-- maybe Nic Potter or one of the violinists? (Is Graham Smith alive?)

[Bucka001]

Well, in that case, it becomes blurrier again... since both Evans and Jaxon are in the teaching world, they'd have more or less the same disponibilities and schedules.... Therefore Jaxon could tour, if it's possible for Evans to do it...

So there could be something more than just schedules and commitment... imho, of course

Yeah, that's pretty much one of the main issues... blocking out a little time for the band, around whatever you think your schedule is over the next year / half year. Dave just found that difficult to do, for whatever reason, and it was understandably frustrating for the others. Again, I'm not telling any tales out of school here... a lot of this stuff has been mentioned in various magazine/newspaper interviews with the band members.

[simon moon]

I'm a big VDGG fan, but I really feel they are missing something important by not having another lead instrument.

Getting another sax player would not be a replacement for Jackson because the new player would have his/her own style. And it's not like they haven't had other members in the band.

Chris Judge Smith played wind instruments from 67-68. Graham Smith violin. Nick Potter and Keith Ellis played bass.

[gregory]

Well, that happens from time to time, great bands lose their very important musicians. There's no reason to dispute if the band need a substitute or not: that depends purely on musical reasons, because they are all pros. We can only suggest our opinions. Mine is that in case of VdGG, they lose being a trio. I don't believe they can't see it this way too, but it is only my speculation.

[kolaron]

A new sax player? Won't happen but what if......they were to give Dana Colley a try? Imagine the fun! I think he could easily replicate the Jaxon dual-sax parts, perhaps even take them to new heights. My three fav bands are VdGG, Hawkwind & Morphine - all with saxes (ok, not always) - I doubt Nik Turner but Dana would be fab.

[Rarebird]

Should the change their name to Van der Generator?

[Shadow]

[Vic2012]

Getting another sax player would not be a replacement for Jackson because the new player would have his/her own style. And it's not like they haven't had other members in the band.

Bingo. Everyone's assuming that those of us who prefer VDGG with Sax/flute are expecting the band to just find a session cat, and that this cat will ruin the chemistry of the band. I understand that if they had some commitments to fill, they're not going to go into a frenzy looking for a "replacement" to "fill in." In ten years as a trio they couldn't find any saxophonists that would fit in and have some chemistry with them? Well, I get it that sax is no longer part of their sound but I think they should have another player in the group.

[Splicer]

Could it be as simple as having his musical composition and arrangement ideas rejected enough times that he felt like a sideman rather than a member? Wouldn't be the first time this happened in a band.

[JKL2000]

It has to do with his hat...

[spacefreak]

If they bribng anyone else in, it would probably have to be someone connected to the band already-- maybe Nic Potter or one of the violinists?

Nic Potter is dead. Graham Smith is commited to his reformed former band, String Driven Thing.

[jkelman]

I can't help but feeling that Jaxon needed a regular income with a monthly paycheck, instead of an irregular one with the group
Happens a time in life where financial secirity (however low it may be >> can't imagine him making loads of money with tghis type of work and the huge Tonewall installation) takes less toll on the general piece of mind

Not responding directly to you, to be clear; you're the post I decided to quote is all.

When groups are as part-time as VdGG, I find it odd that certain members don't want to make the commitment. Even in a year where there's a record and a tour, I wouldn't imagine that being in VdGG occupies the preponderance of anyone's time (if for no other reason than it can't be a primary income generator for any of them). In 2013, the band toured for one three-week run; in 2012, a one-week run, two gigs in Canada and two more in Japan; in 2011, just under three weeks. 2007/09 were a bit busier, but still, a time manageable for most folks unless they have a full-time job where they've no control over their schedules. That may have been true with Jaxon....but if not, then there hasn't been a single year since 2005 that would have been unmanageable. And some years have been almost entirely quiet, though I suspect they'd have been working on we material then.

Kudos to Jaxon if his work with challenged kids takes precedence, but I would imagine (supposition only, of course), that if this were the case, the rest of the gang would have found a way to work with it.

I've heard various things, and have no substantiation for any of them, but as some have already posted, the acrimonious turn this took suggests less altruistic reasons. There are a lot of musicians who are in bands that only reconvene periodically for rehearsals, recordings and live dates; after all, in relative terms, few groups hit the road for more than 2-3 weeks at a time - often in a year - compared to decades past....and so time just isn't the issue it once would have been.

[bRETT]

Nic Potter is dead. Graham Smith is commited to his reformed former band, String Driven Thing.

Sadly, he wasn't when I made the original post. I didn't however know that String Driven Thing was active again-- anyone seen them? Are the Adamses involved?

[Trane]

Not responding directly to you, to be clear; you're the post I decided to quote is all.

When groups are as part-time as VdGG, I find it odd that certain members don't want to make the commitment. Even in a year where there's a record and a tour, I wouldn't imagine that being in VdGG occupies the preponderance of anyone's time (if for no other reason than it can't be a primary income generator for any of them). In 2013, the band toured for one three-week run; in 2012, a one-week run, two gigs in Canada and two more in Japan; in 2011, just under three weeks. 2007/09 were a bit busier, but still, a time manageable for most folks unless they have a full-time job where they've no control over their schedules. That may have been true with Jaxon....but if not, then there hasn't been a single year since 2005 that would have been unmanageable. And some years have been almost entirely quiet, though I suspect they'd have been working on we material then.

Kudos to Jaxon if his work with challenged kids takes precedence, but I would imagine (supposition only, of course), that if this were the case, the rest of the gang would have found a way to work with it.

I've heard various things, and have no substantiation for any of them, but as some have already posted, the acrimonious turn this took suggests less altruistic reasons. There are a lot of musicians who are in bands that only reconvene periodically for rehearsals, recordings and live dates; after all, in relative terms, few groups hit the road for more than 2-3 weeks at a time - often in a year - compared to decades past....and so time just isn't the issue it once would have been.

Had to check, because I couldn't remember writing this post (from 2012), and you're right... My post preceded Olivetti's where he quotes Hammill about the situation, and it's obvious that Jaxon's commitment to the band seemed to be .... waning (plus as you say, living on the road with some resentment axed towards him, might not have made it really attractive an idea)

I saw him in concert last April with the Alex Carpani Band, and he seemed to have a real ball on stage, maybe even overdoing it a tad, really (almost un-Graaf-esque). So it's not like touring (though I have no idea how heavy was the project's touring schedule) and playing is costing him mentally an arn and a leg.

[TheH]

I once read an article about why Jackson left (can't find it anymore).

Obviousley Jackson wasn't willing to committ fully to the band. He wanted to join as a session man an expected the
band to wait for him if he wasn't available.

Jackson lives on the income he creates through sessions, and thought VdGG wouldn't pay his bills.