I'm not really trying to stir up trouble or point fingers or start another 25-page thread, but I thought I'd report back that despite plenty of energy and professionalism on Carl Palmer's part last night at the renovated historic Howard Theatre in Washington, DC, a grand 65 people, max, showed up. Pretty sad especially in a venue that holds upwards of 1100 or 1200 people.
Originally Posted by omark
That's sad.
the elp demographic is old. old people don't go to as many shows as young people.
i also think that, of all the prog heavies of the 70s that elp has the least shelf life. tull and floyd and to a lesser degree yes, all have classic rock audiences. elp has a strictly prog following. those numbers are dwindling.
Yes, that is sad, but not uncommon! Small turnouts have been sadly the norm at jazz gigs forever.
I once saw the TS Monk sextet at the Jazz Bakery in LA where I was the *only* audient for the entire first set. Nonetheless they played with energy and panache and acted like it didn't bother them at all.
Carl just played in a suburb of Chicago a couple weeks ago, nearly sold out a 900 seat theater and the band were real happy. DC may not be a good prog town, or maybe promotion was weak.
The answer to that is 'yes and no.' There were 750-1000 people who showed up for Steve Wilson at the same venue. It's certainly a combination of factors that resulted in such a small turnout for CP. He was here a couple of years ago, and the turnout was good, but obviously most of those fans didn't show up for the return engagement. He also played in Annapolis, which draws the Baltimore crowd, and some people just don't want to drive into mean old downtown DC. Steve Wilson's show notwithstanding, there have been very small turnouts at this venue for VdGG, The Musical Box, and Tangerine Dream, and the originally scheduled UK show was cancelled, presumably due to poor advance ticket sales. Fans of this music just have other ways they prefer to spend their money in the DC area, and there's *always* something to spend your money on here, over and above a high cost-of-living. That's what it boils down to.
I wonder if we will hear from Carl's guitarist Paul Bielatowicz. He has posted here in the past.
I believe the Montreal show on 4/26/13 at the 400 seat Le Gesu sold out. I will mention, somewhat sheepishly, that my wife and I were in town that evening (as we had tickets for the UK show at that venue the following evening, which did not sell out) but chose not to go as we had seen the trio at Le Gesu a couple of years back and just could not muster sufficient enthusiasm (despite that show having been quite enjoyable, and we love Paul's playing with Neal Morse's band) to get tickets for Palmer.
Martin, don't take this the wrong way, but were there really that many people in St. Charles to see Carl Palmer? He played Reggies a couple years back and a sponsor was handing free tickets out at the door. 900 are a lot of people for a show - that's nearly a sellout at the Park West or The Metro. I just can't fathom that many people went to the Arcada to see him.
"Always ready with the ray of sunshine"
I am a huge ELP fan but have zero interest in seeing Keith's keyboard parts played by a guitarist, as is the case with Carl's group.
OTE=strawberrybrick;98043]Martin, don't take this the wrong way, but were there really that many people in St. Charles to see Carl Palmer? He played Reggies a couple years back and a sponsor was handing free tickets out at the door. 900 are a lot of people for a show - that's nearly a sellout at the Park West or The Metro. I just can't fathom that many people went to the Arcada to see him.[/QUOTE]
Ive seen the CPB twice at Reggie's and would say the audience was no larger than 100 each show.
No problem... I wasn't there, and yes I was surprised as well, but I recall reading those numbers on Facebook, along with the story about how it was Bruce Pilato's (Carl's manager) birthday, and the entire crowd sang Happy Birthday to him. They (Carl's FB) said it was really a great night for the band, with a near sell-out crowd.
Keep in mind, previously he played Milwaukee (The Pabst), St. Charles (Arcada), and Chicago at Reggies - all within 3 nights. Look it up! This year he skipped Milwaukee & Chicago, and just played St Charles. I keep a pretty good eye on his tours because I designed some t-shirts for him, and I always get free admission when I decide to go. This year I passed however because after seeing that show a couple times, it kind of wears thin.
Last edited by Man In The Mountain; 05-09-2013 at 03:11 PM.
It's not bad for a night out! Nothing I would want to listen to on a CD, for instance, but pretty cool for what it is. Hearing a guitarist play Keith's parts in itself is amazing to watch, and Carl is as great as ever. Plus, all the music played is excellent. It's a fun show.
Most of Carl’s shows have been nearly sold out on this tour.
I'm seeing CPB tonight in my hometown Shirley, Mass. at the Bull Run dinner theater -- a tiny roadhouse joint just two miles away. I'll check in later with a report.
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If this is true, that's great, and if there's proof of that, then it's an argument supporting what friends and I have maintained for a while regarding shows in the DC area: there's just plain too much to do, too many demands on people, and way too many venues. It's a blessing for fans in terms of opportunities and finding entertainment for less money, but it's awful for artists (as well as venue management) struggling to attract big crowds. It doesn't help that in recent years, DC has been ranked in the top 5, and sometimes top 3, of worst areas for commuting/traffic conditions across the country. (A couple sat down with us last night and said it took them 2 hours to drive the 25 miles from their home to the Howard Theatre, and it took me half that time to drive half that distance.)
I saw the show a couple of years ago; left at intermission, not my bag.
I also was at CP's Reggie show in the fall of 2011. Couldn't have been more than 90 -100 people. I too passed on seeing this year's show at the Arcada, that's a long 45-mile drive for me. And you're right, the show wears thin after a few performances.
I also saw Emerson/Lake in Merrillville when they did their tour, that venue held 4000, the balcony was closed, and the lower level was no more 1/4 full, so I'd guess there were no more than 400 people.
But if you have not seen CP's band, and you love the ELP catelogue, I think you will enjoy the show.
I'd say that they drew about 150-180 people at a bar in Toronto last week. They did play at a theatre at a nearby town a few nights previous, but since the price was 2 1/2 times higher, I went to the bar. It's a good show, and Carl is still an amazing drummer, but I too think that the show has worn a little thin for me. It's the third time that I've seen it. Pictures at an Exhibition, and Mars, Bringer of War were the only numbers that really drew me in. Carl seemed annoyed several times, as people were talking loudly at the bar, during a lot of the quiet parts of the show.
I would like to see these guys play some original compositions, but I guess Carl doesn't think that he can draw enough audience by doing that. The fact that Steven Wilson drew well at the same venue you mention, tells me, at least, that the state of prog that is happening today, is fine.
neil
Nothing but good comments on Carl’s Facebook page about his shows.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Carl-...2¬if_t=wall
Tony Ortiz - Official Archivist at Emerson Lake & Palmer
https://www.facebook.com/tony.ortiz.94064
Tony, just as the OP said, it's not about good/bad/whatever, it's about "the state of prog". It's one thing that ELP exaggerated rock music to all ends, but it would be an absolute miracle if nearly 900 people showed up in St. Charles IL to see Palmer's gig on 4/20.
Last edited by strawberrybrick; 05-09-2013 at 07:36 PM.
"Always ready with the ray of sunshine"
Glass half empty````"kick my ass. just kick it"
Glass half full```"now Philly, Philly is a rockin town"
I wouldn't understand why anyone would go to the DC show over Annapolis
Rams Head is pretty simple - easy ride, easy park, great bar food and microbrew, what's not to like
I disagree strongly with a lot of what has been posted above - flat out loved the show this week
Rams Head was filled with a VERY enthusiastic crowd, that gave up a serious standing O after every song
I'm a very long time ELP fan, but I'd never checked out the CP band before
In a way it's almost better than seeing ELP, at least setlist wise , no ballads, just high energy versions of some of their best songs
I'll definitely see him again if he plays there
EP
"When Yes appeared on stage, it was like, the gods appearing from the heavens, deigning to play in front of the people."
As one who often tries to get butts into seats for shows in the DC area I'm of two minds about this. First let me state I thought about going to the show, but ultimately decided against it even with the knowledge that Carl's shows have been getting great reviews. I would not call it a "State of Prog Alert", rather a "State of prog stuck in the 70s alert". As Mark pointed out Steve Wilson's show at the same venue was very well attended. Coheed and Cambria sold out two days at the 9:30 Club not to long ago. Some of our SOAR shows are well attended, some not. Lots of factors usually impact attendance including location, weather (it was raining last night which has a detrimental impact on...), traffic, day of the week,venue, cost, what band and when the band last played the area, etc. For me personnally I just could not get excited about paying to see a show billed as "...plays the music of ELP". I saw ELP play the music of ELP back in the day and in the not to distant past I've seen Keith's band a couple of times- and have bought his last few CDs because they have new music on them. A secondary consideration was cost. Although tickets were only $15 through Goldstar, the fact is it would have cost me closer to $100 for the wife and I after parking and food/drink at the Howard. Finally, as Mark pointed out there is no shortage of other shows, including some very talented local musicians, to see in the area.
And now a word from our sponsors: We have two great guitar players coming to Herndon, VA on Wednesday June 5. Jimmy Robinson, he of Woodenhead fame, and FLOATSTONE from Antwerp. Both have talent to spare. The show is on a Wendesday because that worked best for their tour. It is in Herndon because many other venues turned down the show. Knowing Herndon is "a bridge too far" for many of the SOAR faithful, and traffic will disuade some, we partnered with the Herndon Foundation for the Cultural Arts, and the result has been great so far. The restaurant can only hold 50 and we've sold about 30 tickets already based on word of mouth from the last time Jimmy played for us. So if your nearby, best get your tickets as I feel confident we will sell this one out.
Tom
www.dc-soar.org
Uh...'cuz the Ram's Head is 44 miles from my house and the Howard is 12. And it's worse for some people who live in the DC area. That couple I mentioned were willing to venture 25 miles into DC. There's no way they'd drive to Annapolis on a weeknight.
From my house:
Ramshead 35 miles 45 minutes, can afford to eat there and musicians are accessible.
Howard Theater 45 miles 64 minutes, can afford a $15 burger but won't and musicians aren't accessible.
NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF STUPID PEOPLE IN LARGE GROUPS!
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