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Thread: Is Steven Wilson becoming Uncle Frank...

  1. #1

    Is Steven Wilson becoming Uncle Frank...

    Except for the humor and the luck with the ladies, I am starting to think so. Great musicians want to play with him. Great bands want him to produce them. And iconic
    bands want him to bring life into their old, popular albums...In his latest DVD, he starting to conduct like Frank did. Plus we know that Frank is an idol of Stevens...

  2. #2
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Well, from interviews, it seems that he's modeled his current role in his solo bands after Frank, and given how happy he seems to be with the results and how successful it's been, I'd expect him to continue along the same path.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  3. #3
    No.

    As much as I fond the youngster SW at his parents' house dubbing tape recordings by external mikes between decks, and as much as I still like the early (1989-97) Pork, this man will not have some of the greatest names in contemporary music boosting his uniqum or performing his "works" with high-profiled ensembles.

    "Uncle Frank" significantly influenced the trail of development within modern popular music, partly because some of the world's biggest acts knew him and admired his skills and vision. As far as I'm concerned, there's absolutely no comparison whatsoever. At best, SW is a "poor man's" Jim O'Rourke or Steve Albini, though far less interesting in terms of musical and artistic outcome - IMHO, of course.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  4. #4
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    this man will not have some of the greatest names in contemporary music boosting his uniqum or performing his "works" with high-profiled ensembles.
    Um...he already does.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  5. #5
    Zappa 'made' musicians, gave them a foothold from which they launched into other careers.

    Wilson is taking known quantities and giving them something interesting to do. It isn't quite the same. Maybe someday that'll change, but I doubt it.

    And that isn't a slam on Wilson, or his (frankly kickass) band...just acknowledging that it isn't really the same scenario.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    Um...he already does.
    But, y'know, um... Not with Ensemble Modern or Pierre Boulez.

    And AFAIK he doesn't have people like Nordheim or Berio or Andriessen officially registered as fan club members. And somehow I don't think anyone will rise any statues in his honour anytime soon like they did with "Uncle Frank" in Prague and numerous other places. And FWIW, Robert Fripp isn't exactly recognized as a guru among most contemporary music buffs, and neither are any of SW's usual cooperative characters normally defined as world-wide household names.

    And his friggin' page on Wikipedia is written by a fanboy.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  7. #7
    I get the comparison the OP is drawing - but as much as I like The Raven stuff I've heard, I'm not studying it like I did Jazz From Hell trying to analyze its unprecedented compositional brilliance.

  8. #8
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by battema View Post
    Zappa 'made' musicians, gave them a foothold from which they launched into other careers.

    Wilson is taking known quantities and giving them something interesting to do. It isn't quite the same. Maybe someday that'll change, but I doubt it.

    And that isn't a slam on Wilson, or his (frankly kickass) band...just acknowledging that it isn't really the same scenario.
    Fair enough - good points.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by arabicadabra View Post
    but as much as I like The Raven stuff I've heard, I'm not studying it like I did Jazz From Hell trying to analyze its unprecedented compositional brilliance.
    The Raven is arguably the best thing he has ever done, at least in terms of musical formality. As such, SW is indeed at his artistic zenith right now, but he's no "icon" or embedded in a "current wave" of the cultural artistic world community.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  10. #10
    Member BobM's Avatar
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    Wilson seems to be picking and choosing little bits from lots of places. A little Genesis here, a little King Crimson there, a little Zappa too. Isn't that what great musicians and composers do - pick something from other great musicians and composers and borrow from it, or use it as an influence? I think he is still making it his own overall, and very much setting the tone for other contemporary prog acts.
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  11. #11
    Recently Resurrected zombywoof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobM View Post
    Wilson seems to be picking and choosing little bits from lots of places. A little Genesis here, a little King Crimson there, a little Zappa too. Isn't that what great musicians and composers do - pick something from other great musicians and composers and borrow from it, or use it as an influence? I think he is still making it his own overall, and very much setting the tone for other contemporary prog acts.
    Absolutely. Afterall, the argument could be made that Zappa borrowed heavily from Varese, Stravinsky, and doo wop. That doesn't make him any less of a genius in my opinion.

  12. #12
    I think in a different way he IS the new Zappa. I think one could argue that Zappa didn't "make" his musicians, they got the job because they had the chops to begin with for sure. But brought them to a place they may not have gotten to on their own, certainly. (I'd love to get M. Keneallys view on that.) And clearly, like giants before him, to have the reputation of having just played in his band brought huge respect.
    Now I dont think the same thing applies to Wilson in that regard. But like Zappa, he's out there in the media bringing attention to his music and the music he listens to, which is ALL over the place. He interviews like Zappa did, for sure. And hes certainly taking pages from Zappas book on surrounding himself with the best musicians he can find to play his work. My feeling is after this album and tour I think more top level guys are going to want a shot to work with him too.
    I was talking to the lighting tech at the show and he said working with Wilson is a dream job, very open minded democratic etc. I also asked how Wackerman did in FLA. His comment was interesting. He did amazing, he brought all his skills to the table for sure. But he said he thinks Chad showed up thinking it was going to be an easier set than he found it out to be. Which immediately got me thinking about Wilsons musical complexity vs Zappas. I don't play anything but a stereo, so I have no insight into that. But it made me think that Wilsons work is a bit more than meets the untrained ear this go round.
    Its an interesting question and one I've thought a lot about as well.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by zombywoof View Post
    Absolutely. Afterall, the argument could be made that Zappa borrowed heavily from Varese, Stravinsky, and doo wop. That doesn't make him any less of a genius in my opinion.
    But the question significantly also involves the matter of cultural stature, and SW has nowhere near the level of such that Zappa ever did.

    If there was ever a single post-Zappa character in modern music who resembled his level of skills and vision, his artistic transcendence, his stature as curator and supporter of others and his musical as well as organizational entrepreneurism - it was John Zorn.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  14. #14
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    I've never been a Zappa fan but in terms of direct comparisons, Wilson can't read music while Frank could.

    The world of music has changed so much and its impact has so lessened that I can't see anyone every having any wide cultural impact again. But SW certainly is a major figure in what we have left, especially for discerning fans of thought-provoking music.
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  15. #15
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    ....his stature as curator and supporter of others....
    Maybe I am not thinking this all the way through, as my FZ factoid knowledge ain't what it once was, but:

    When was FZ ever a supporter of anything that he wasn't directly involved in, either an as artist or producer or record label owner?
    Steve F.

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    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

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    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  16. #16
    Allan Holdsworth.....

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    When was FZ ever a supporter of anything that he wasn't directly involved in, either an as artist or producer or record label owner?
    Good point, and to that extent I think Zorn has moved far beyond what Zappa achieved - or indeed what he set out to do. Like others have noted here, Zappa spawned numerous successful musician's carreers, but not really by promoting them as such. I suppose one of the exceptions was when he encouraged Lowell George's attempt at establishing his own group.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  18. #18
    No. If only for the fact that Frank was smart enough to hire good singers.
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  19. #19
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    Good point, and to that extent I think Zorn has moved far beyond what Zappa achieved...
    FAR beyond.

    JZ has done more to support avant garde/etc artists than any other musician that *I* can think of and more than many 'arts organizations' have.

    It's something I consider a huge part of his legacy (and greatness) that seems to be taken for granted (or not noticed) by a lot people...
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  20. #20
    Important point to make here:
    SW is already pushing 50 ("I was born in '67 / The year of Sgt. Pepper's"). If SW is the new FZ, then he needs to go back in time and release about 40 more albums during his 30s.
    I want to dynamite your mind with love tonight.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    The Raven is arguably the best thing he has ever done, at least in terms of musical formality. As such, SW is indeed at his artistic zenith right now, but he's no "icon" or embedded in a "current wave" of the cultural artistic world community.
    With all due respect, I think you're getting it wrong here. Wilson compares himself to Zappa insofar as he's not a player who's as good as those with whom he surrounds himself, while writing music that musicians better than him do seem to want to play and that's as far as it goes. In my interview, he was very clear that he doesn't see himself at the same level as Zappa, but sees Zappa as something of a role model for his MO.

    That said, it's early days for Wilson in this context. We'll see where it goes, but I agree with you, I don't see him doing the contemporary music scene like Zappa did...but neither do I see that as an objective for him.

    It's really just a comparison in that Zappa, as a guitarist, was nowhere near the performance level of those around him, but he did write great music that demanded far better players to play. In that respect, there is a parallel, even if Wilson's music isn't as complex....

  22. #22
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    As for precocious youngsters who can write for rock and roll (in this case, what passes these days for *indie rock*), Broadway type of plays, and large scale orchestral works, don't sleep on Gabriel Kahane. Very very interesting composer. I just discovered him from a link on Joel Harrison's FB page.

  23. #23
    Tribesman sonic's Avatar
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    All Wilson's music that I've heard has plodding 4/4 drumming. How could anyone compare him to Zappa?

  24. #24
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    When it comes to creativeness and innovation Zappa was a lighthouse, he dared to take chances and spread into a lot of genres.
    Dunno about SW, he is a brillant producer and a craftsman but not really in that league IMO.

  25. #25
    Am I the only one who thinks Insurgentes is his best album?

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