The Lawn and Garden Thread: Greening Up in 9/7 Time

[Jerjo]

My wife and I live in what was my parents house. My mother had not done a thing to update the house since dad died in '98 so for the past couple years all of our work has been centered on the inside of the house. And while that is still an ongoing project, this year I'm going to get the lawn back up to a decent level and plant a small garden. Once the half foot of snow is gone that is...

Anyway, I'm started this thread as an exchange of ideas on yard maintenance and gardening. I thought of making a group but the groups seem to wither on the vine on PE3. And maybe this thread will die as well but given the number of middle-aged duffers and duffettes on this site, I figure there will be loads of opinions on these matters.

First off, I know damn well that once the snow is gone, the dandelions are going to run rampant. I've got an asshole across the street that never mows his lawn and the damn things spread all over from his place. Is there something that can kill these bastards quick and then disperse quickly enuff for my dog to walk on the grass the next day?

[markwoll]

I use mechanical means. A small spade, dig below the weed and pry up and wiggle the entire root out.
Time consuming, but breaking it down in 20-30 minute segments helps.
Or you can inject the buggers with vinegar.
See Here
Things get rapidly herbicidal after that.

mark

[JKL2000]

First of all, I'll take care of this so Poisoned Youth doesn't have to:



Now that that's out of the way:

We went the opposite of the route you chose - we've left the house in a semi-ruinous state (it's 100 years old) and started work on the yard right away. It's a small house but a big yard (in a village where big yards are rare). The previous owners had really let it go to seed (it had actually become basically a small forest, and all they did was lop down most of the trees before selling the house). It was also very muddy because of a drainage problem on the street. So the first thing we did was bother the village till they fixed the drainage problem, then planted new grass seed last Spring and a bunch of new trees and shrubs (and flower bulbs) over the past year or two).

No installed sprinkler system of course, so keeping it watered is a bitch. Yesterday I bought one of those sprinkler hoses and tried it out on the two stands of evergreens. Seemed to do an ok job, but probably not as heavy a watering as we usually need.

If anyone has any good revelations for watering methods (that don't involve installing a computer-controlled watering system) I'd be curious to hear them. Our neighbors just use a gardener. We actually do use a landscaping service to mow, because it's a big yard but no one here uses riding mowers or anything. People really just use landscaping services. But aside from the mowing, we do everything else.

RE: dandelions - yeah, our nice new grass was quickly overrun with all kinds of weeds and annoying, invasive grasses. We've pretty much decided to have what my wife found is referred to as a "yachtsman's yard." "He mows what grows."

We also have a steep slope on one side. It's big, so planting ground cover would be quite expensive. My wife has tried covering it with grass and clover seed. The clover has worked in some parts, but in others it's just too steep and rain washes it away before it can really take root. So if anyone has good ideas for some kind of seed that can be spread which takes root very quickly and grows quickly, we'll probably try it!

I think a gardening thread is a good idea, just like there's a grilling thread, etc.

[Progmatic]

I have nearly 2 acres of lawn. It is like flushing money down the toilet.
I have no sprinkler system and deer problem. Weeds like my grass. Birds pick up whatever I try to overseed grass with. On the top of it my trees dump every year tons of leaves on the lawn.

I am keeping up fight while I can but I am getting old for that schtick...

[JKL2000]

^ We have kids, so they get a lot of use out of our lawn. Two acres is huge, though - we have just 1/2 an acre, which I guess isn't really that big, but where we are it's big. Also, the house is in a corner of the plot, so it makes the yard seem bigger.

We really needed to fix it up, too, because people in the neighborhood had come to think of it as almost public land before we moved in. A couple of neighbors were pretty surprised to find out where the property lines were when we put up deer fence all around it. The deer fence was actually more to keep in our little son, and also the dog we had at the time, although the place has a lot of deer too, and we didn't want to be limited to deer-resistent shrubs.

[Klonk]

Hey...weeds are plants too! Judgmental bastards!

Well, this is how I make a living so I'll chime in. Dandelions obviously you need to get 'em before they seed. I'm licensed for herbicides though I try to avoid using them. If I do, I use products which are quickly absorbed by target plant so it's in the plant and out quick enough to keep from leaching in soil. For homeowners, Round-Up offers some products like this in spray bottles already mixed which do the job well and absorb quick enough to be able to use lawn soon after. Just make sure it's systemic (will only harm target weed and not grass) You don't want a bunch of brown spots. Once it dries it's safe, but if pets chew on grass it's good to wait one day.

Watering lawn is obviously important, but you can ease the hassle by having the lawn cut 3" or more. Higher the grass, the less heat stress on lawn. Watering at night = bad. Water in the morning. With the lawn wet for so long over night, it's an invite for disease. Also water less often, but for longer durations. The deeper the water sinks, the deeper the roots will go.

Add straw or pellet mulch (this is what I use) on top of grass seed if overseeding. It aids in germination and lessens the blow from birds. Never just drop seed down. Always scratch the soil with a rake so the seed gets in the soil a little less that half inch. It roots much better especially on hills. I use a renovator which slices the soil and drops seed down at the same time. Works wonders. Keep it damp for a good week or two, but don't flood it.

Some tips from your prog lovin' lawn guy.

[WHORG]

I aerate, seed and feed (fertilize) in the fall.

I weed & feed in the spring with one single quality product (Pennington).

Our lawn looks great - but seems to be a "brighter" green than the other lawns in the neighborhood that are visited a few times a year by Chem Lawn and other companies like that. Aeration runs about $50 for our property volume - all the other stuff runs about the same amount.

I never mow below 2.5" - 3" = and water very early in the morning twice a week in the hottest parts of the summer season.

I see MANY people whose lawns are completely scorched by mid July here in NC = where as our water bill rises by $20 per month during those same times.

I now mow about every 5-7 days in the spring time - everything's really growing fast and super green. Summer heat slows things down and we can go perhaps 10 days between cuttings.

I remove the mower blade every season and sharpen it by hand with a file - a sharp blade cuts MUCH better.

We just finished several containers of flowers *annuals* for our back patio - with proper watering and bi-monthly feeding - these can easily last well into November in this region. We planted some hot pepper plants this season too - everything else gets consumed by the deer, rodents and birds. We get a plethora of wildlife here: deer, fox, opossum, racoons, rabbits, squirrels, turtles, snakes, lizards, over 18 varieties of birds - our property backs up to a heavy forest and we are not fenced in . . . oh well.

[Banquo]

This thread is brought to you by...

[Magnashine]

Boiling water or a steaming machine do wonders. I mostly used them to remove weeds in the patio cracks, the next day, all is dead and easy to remove. I have never tried it in the grass as it would imply too much traveling between sink and grass but should work too if your lot is small. Note it will make the grass around die too but the mechanical tool I use also remove some grass around. I also use the boiled water on the ant nest.

I just ordered a white grubs treatment (nematode worms) again this year as I noticed the skunks were digging a little bit. you should see the damage they did on my neighbor front yard. The last treatment was 5 years ago and I got good results with it until this year.

[Magnashine]

.

We also have a steep slope on one side. It's big, so planting ground cover would be quite expensive. My wife has tried covering it with grass and clover seed. The clover has worked in some parts, but in others it's just too steep and rain washes it away before it can really take root. So if anyone has good ideas for some kind of seed that can be spread which takes root very quickly and grows quickly, we'll probably try it!
.

Creeping Charlie should work, it is an invasive weed but would put green and tiny purple flowers in any brown spots.

[Klonk]

I've had great results with nematodes in my gardens. Enough birds around here though to massacre those tasty grubs.Creeping Charlie and ground ivy's will work but are INCREDIBLY invasive like you say. Pain in the ass to get rid of if it makes its way into a lawn.

Good advice, Josef. Aerating is one of the best things you can do for a lawn.

[markwoll]

I started buying groundcover marketed as stepables. They sell different plants in different regions with tolerance ranges.
They sure are invasive ( that is a selling point ) and low maint. For hill sides and problem areas.
I am sort of 'green is good' when it comes to lawn. I don't care what sort of green, as long as it mows.
Having active dogs takes its toll on a lawn, so I get by with what survives with little watering and fertilizer.
mark

[Jerjo]

We're about to get 2-4" of snow this weekend. At this rate I'll be looking at Memorial Day snowdrifts in my backyard. Jebus.

I have a small 4'x 10' area on the south side of the house. It's home to an ancient rose bush that no longer blooms and an enormous peony that is utterly useless. My plan, provided the fucking snow melts, is to dig these two out and plant some green beans, carrots, and tomatoes. IF the snow melts.

[spellbound]

It has already snowed twice here this month, as always accompanied by high winds to relieve the fruit trees of their blossoms. This week's storm the snow brought with it subfreezing nights, to make sure and kill any plant that dared rear its head. Tulips came up. Last fall I planted some tulips in the front yard. Mistake. Found out deer eat tulips. Just the flowers, though. We have a small area on the north side of the house that might generously be termed a lawn. Some mixed grass, some unidentified weeds, and lots of dandelions. Good crop of those this year. Should learn to make dandelion wine, since I can't seem to kill the sumbitches. This "lawn" surrounds a bare area where there once was a tree. Tree was removed before we moved in. Don't know why nothing grows there. Maybe I'll transplant some irises to the bare area. They are rhizomes and seem to thrive anywhere. The "lawn" is so small I cut it with a weed eater. I have a lawnmower, but it doesn't cut it as well. The remainder of the front yard is covered with decorative gravel that we have grown tired of. I'll get rid of it if I can come up with a plan for the yard. I have some ideas. The plastic sheet under the gravel is disintegrating and weeds and an occasional sagebrush grow through. We try to pull them a couple times every summer to keep the yard presentable. Don't want the ugliest yard on our block. There's a few planters out front with roses and other flowering plants. The back yard had some grass at one time. I watered it, but now it is mostly dirt. Don't really want a lawn, though, as it costs too much to maintain. I do want the yard to look nice, and will check in on this thread for ideas. I want to have some open area for our kid to play. The rest should be preferably xeriscaped. Undecided on what to grow for that. Sagebrush would be the natural thing here, but a sagebrush yard makes any home look abandoned. I had the cottonwood trees removed so the dirt in the back yard could get some sun, but mostly because cottonwoods are weeds with out of control root systems. I have planted vegetable gardens in the past, but the yield was not enough to be worth the cost of the water I used to keep the plants alive. Plus, the growing season is too short here. A plant barely matures and it's already freezing again. And if the garden looks good enough, deer will get in the back yard. They have a difficult time getting out. Other local herbivore pests include birds, rabbits and squirrels. Would be cheaper to buy good fruit and vegetables from the farmers market. I haven't planted anything yet this year and may not, but a few hardy plants from last year are sprouting anew. Will have some flowers anyway.

I can tell you what not to do. Don't plant parsley. Parsley seeds spread by wind. Soon the little fucking garnishes are omnipresent. The plants have surprisingly deep roots which you need to get out if you are trying to eradicate the plants, which you will, once they number in the hundreds. Other plants that spread uncontrollably are blackberries, mint, and cottonwoods.

If anyone has any good revelations for watering methods (that don't involve installing a computer-controlled watering system) I'd be curious to hear them.

We don't have a sprinkler system either. I water the trees by putting the hose under them for a while. I water the vegetable garden the same way. I water the grass with those kind of sprinklers you put on the end of the hose. I have more than one kind. For the rose bushes I got one of those hoses that seeps water, kind of like a drip system, but not installed. I have a two-way "Y" hose faucet, so the drip hose is on whenever I am using the regular hose. I water everything else, including extra water for the roses, by hand with a hose and nozzle. Roses seem to like it if you occasionally put some used coffee grounds around the base of the plant.

Hey...weeds are plants too! Judgmental bastards!

A weed is any plant that grows where you don't want it. In my yard, holly is a weed. Hardest plant in the world to kill.

[Klonk]

Hey, at least deer usually stay away from holly!

Speaking of deer...man they can destroy shit you plant! Pains in the asses they are. As a result, since there is a lot of deer here, I have incorporated butterfly gardening into the business. Yeah yeah attack my manhood like all my friends do hahaha, but I'll tell yas, it's been a good money maker! More importantly, I've grown pretty fond of it. Even created one in my yard. The thing is, for the most part, deer don't enjoy plants that butterflies enjoy so your plants will be left alone to thrive. On top of that there's plenty of color to be had. I've become pretty fascinated with it actually. Something quite cool about planting things that create so much life. It will bring work for much needed pollinators as well!

[WHORG]

Butterfly gardens RULE. Last year I chose a nice spot up against our neighbors back yard fence - 4' along the fence and sticking out 1' . . . not very big at all, but it got a good 7-8 hours of sunlight every day.

I did some research and found out some of the annuals that attract butterflies in this region: alyssum, marigold, petunia and salvia . . . dug out and filled in the area with fresh topsoil mixed with a few handfuls of vermiculite - and then planted one of each of those plants. By mid summer it was crazy with butterflies baby ! ! ! Easy to maintain - just dead head every 3/4 days, feed once every 2 wks, and water daily in the early AM - that's it. I keep a small flat earthen (sealed) planter saucer filled with sandy mud back there too (for watering), next to their garden - and a few dark rocks for sunning. They love it . . .

My daughter will soon begin seeing all the caterpillars around the property - they host somewhere in the woods near the property line - there's lots of stuff back there for cocoons, etc.

Another thing I did right after moving here years ago: hummingbird feeders . . . what a hoot watching those little things buzz about. What's crazy is those tiny birds winter somewhere down in Florida, but they fly all the way back up to fucking NC, into Chapel Hill, into my back yard, and hover in my back picture window looking at me - as if to say "where's my nectar man" !!! That was my cue (last week) to take out the feeder and make some fresh nectar (3/4 cup sugar to 1 cup H20) - - - crazy little bastards, always fighting with each other especially after filling the feeder with fresh, cold nectar in the deep heat of the summer.

I put up a bird house this year, and there's a chickadee in there with 3 eggs due to hatch any day. The side of the bird house is hinged, so you can remove a peg and swing the side down to look inside. The mother chickadee is not pissed at me that much anymore and does not bitch - she just waits in the nearby tree until I peek in there - babies will hatch soon. They are a fairly bold little bird compared to many others, and are quite tolerant of humans - always at our feeders when we're back there socializing.

We've really enjoyed our back yard since moving here - and spend a lot of time back there with friends.

Later . . .

[Klonk]

Cool Josef...I love it. The kids all love coming over my place to watch the butterflies and caterpillars. Lots of cool host plants you can add if you want to get more cats for your daughter to see. Milkweed is THE host for Monarchs. Pop one of those in the ground and toss in an ornamental grass close by. Monarchs lay eggs all over the milkweed and when the cats get big enough they travel to the ornamental grass to cocoon. Your daughter can watch the whole transformation happen from cat to butterfly in front of her eyes. Pretty amazing stuff.

[Jefferson James]

I rented a house in Van Nuys for 18 years; the small backyard was mostly concrete save for two trees, a mature loquat and an ancient rubber tree. The front yard was pretty small (15' x 8' maybe) with a massive Montebello Ash which dropped every single leaf onto the property every late fall. It took weeks to clean up unless a Santa Ana pattern developed, in which case I could watch waves of leaves blowing into my neighbors yards. I managed to keep a fairly green lawn with minimal water (the ash tree shaded the entire front of the property) and weekly mowing; we grew vegetables in a cement-free corner of the back yard and maintained a ton of potted plants, some I'd owned for 15 years or more.

Last spring the owner lost the house to foreclosure; I couldn't buy it with my VA loan (house didn't qualify, needed too much work) so we moved to an apartment. We have a huge rooftop deck for all the potted plants we were able to bring from the house (25-30), and we're growing various peppers, tomatoes and an herb garden so I still get to tinker around. I find watering, dead-heading, tending and weeding to be somewhat therapeutic

The saddest thing for me was losing my staghorn fern; I had that thing for 25 years, I mounted it to the rubber tree at the Van Nuys house 16 years ago and the thing was HUGE. I tried to sell it but didn't manage to do so in time so it stayed on the property. Our new place is very exposed and there's no ideal place to take a cutting and re-generate it so I just abandoned the thing. I still feel bad about it.

One thing I love about the apartment/patio garden is not having to pick up leaves all the time -- maintenance is minimal. I do miss having a yard of my own but for the meantime we were lucky to get a place with so much outdoor space. Saving our pennies in the hopes the housing market out here turns around and we can find a place of our own somewhere off the beaten path, hopefully next year. There is currently very little inventory to choose from.

Edit: One of the joys of the garden is seeing bees and birds and various insects; we have two bird feeders and it's a blast seeing the various creatures partaking. TONS of bird life around here! Recently, around dusk, the tinest hummingbird -- I always think it's a moth -- comes around and sips nectar from our jasmine currently in bloom. Los Angeles around this time of year smells like jasmine and orange blossoms -- it's heady!

[JKL2000]

We made the possible mistake of tossing peanuts to the squirrels that live in our trees - we couldn't resist. Now they come to the back porch most mornings when I'm making coffee, and beg for peanuts. I can't help it, they're so cute! It seems to piss off our cat though.

I'm going to have to get a couple of hummingbird feeders and try that. We see the occasional hummingbird, but maybe feeders will draw more to our yard. I love seeing them.

[Jefferson James]

A friend's older uncle lost his wife a couple years ago; a few months later his uncle started feeding the neighborhood birds and squirrels and everyone was saying how lovely it was that Stan was moving on with his life. A few months later, Stan built a platform about 20' atop a post he sunk into concrete himself, a place where birds could safely eat the seed he put out. Then he built a contraption for the squirrels so they could eat safely out of the way of the local feral cats. The last time I saw Stan he was hauling what looked like 50 pound sacks of bird feed up the ladder to the platform.

Beware how fast this shit can creep up on you.

[spellbound]

It's fun to watch blue jays and squirrels in a battle of wits. Blue jays are much smarter. Squirrel gets a nut and tries to bury it. Blue jay sits in the tree and watches. When the squirrel steps away, blue jay swoops down and digs up the nut. Now, the blue jay could fly up and eat the nut in a tree, but he's in this for fun. He lets the squirrel charge him and drops the nut. Squirrel thinks he is victorious and buries the nut again, under the watchful eye of the jay. The story repeats itself as long as the blue jay is amused.

We have a bird feeder that looks like a birdhouse but with open sides. You put in seeds and the birds come and eat them. Until the cat gets up on the fence within reach of the feeder. Birds have good eyesight and don't come around while the cat is there. Cat has to content herself with catching mice, which she seems to be good at.

[spellbound]

Here's an idea. I could plant what grows wild. This wildflower plant is identified as phlox.

[Magnashine]

Funny how I do things against current! One of my goal is to bring back life in the city. I planted trees and shrubs to attract wildlife year round and there is always plenty to see. Last week I had an american woodcock in my backyard, I had never seen one before and I spend lots of time in fields and woods. My permanent guests are the cotton tail, the black gopher, 2-3 skunks, squirels and raccons. The magical ingredient was the pond with the marsh area. I have become the highway of thursty animal and birds. So far, little damage was done to my property, the gopher tried to dig under the pond and made a hole in the chain link fence. I grow veggies and berries but they remain untouched by the wildlife. Now i want to attract moose at my cottage. I know they' re coming once in a while but I have never seen one while I was there. I have a wet spot in the driveway and I am planning to plant horsetail for them, what else could I plant?

[Greg]

I wish I had property on which to plant a graden. I live in a condo, so I'm limited to growing herbs indoors.

Any suggestions on keeping things like cilantro, basil and oregano happy in a pot on a windowsill? They seems to soak up tons more water than I expected, and seem to outgrow the pots pretty quickly.

I've had to change to starting from seed as the plants I'd buy at the supermarket or garden centre all seemed to be infested with things like white flies. I've even gotten a bag of Miracle Gro potting soil that was infested with fungus gnats. I had to dump all the soil and get rids of those plants.

I'm using seed starter soil at the moment, but it dries up in a day or two. A woman at Home Depot suggested using hte Miracle Gro organic instead of the regular potting soil, but I'm nervous about opening the bag, half expecting more flies. I also bought some perlite to mix with the soil, but I'm not sure if I should mix it with the seed start soil, or the organic potting soil.

Anyone had success with a year-round indoor herb garden with no pests?

[saatuk]

I have a wet spot in the driveway and I am planning to plant horsetail for them, what else could I plant?

I've never before seen anyone actually decide to plant horsetails. They are the worst weed there is. They spread like crazy and cannot be controlled. Seriously. I think you should re-consider this. Moose eat all kinds of stuff. If you have a swamp in moose territory they will come.