Albums that saved Prog ?

[SteveSly]

As someone who thinks Dream Theater is to progressive music what Yngwie Malmsteen is to electric guitar (i.e., highly skilled copycats with almost no original ideas), no D.T. would go on my list as having "saved" the genre of prog/prog-rock/progressive music.
u.

Regarding Dream Theater, whether you like the type of music they do or even consider it prog can certainly be debated, but to the mainstream music world they have had a significantly higher impact than just about anyone else during that time. In the late 90’s DT were the only newer related prog act that could actually tour (and sell out) as a headliner at a mid-sized venue level. There really was not anyone else during that time period that got that big, and it all started with “Images And Words”. I think it could be argued that most of the Magna Carta acts success was a direct result of Dream Theater's success and influence before them.

Steve Sly

[Yves]

Define save!

But first...define prog!

[Rufus]

OK, have just read the feature & this extract may make it clearer as to 'Albums that saved Prog '.

In the early 80's punk seemed to have killed off Prog once & for all-but then came MARILLION's debut album. Proudly progressive & intelligent , yet infused with the venom and vitriol of the punk scene, it launched the neo -Prog movement and won over a whole new audience.

[JKL2000]

No one's ever going to come to anything even approaching an agreement on this, or an agreement on whether the question itself even makes any sense, until we come to something approaching consensus on the timeless question, "What is prog?". Which ain't ever going to happen. In fact, what you see here is essentially a collision of the "Big-P" and "little-p" definitions.

What do you think, though, about my comparison of the term Progressive Rock (or Prog, or Prog Rock, or Art Rock, etc.) to the term "Classical Music?" Do people argue over what is meant by the term "Classical Music" before they can discuss anything that falls under that umbrella?

In fact, we manage to get by pretty well here most of the time without too many problems regarding what falls under the umbrella of Progressive Music. It can be Klaus Schulze, it can be Toto, it can be Magma.

[JKL2000]

But first...define prog!

Define Album!

[arabicadabra]

I'd say Discipline and Thrak for the 80s and 90s.

[Modry Effekt]

Cuneiform records.

[Rufus]

I'd say Discipline and Thrak for the 80s and 90s.

But did those albums introduce Prog to a whole new audience which is what the article is alluding to ? Whilst I agree it was KC re-inventing themselves, I'm not sure they brought any new fans on board . Certainly those album sales don't reflect that !

[Big Ears]

Saga and Images at Twilight by Saga.

[JKL2000]

Shrimp Toast

[oilersfan]

If an album like this exists I don't think its been released yet...

[jlneudorf]

As has been noted this is a hard, if not impossible question to answer. I do agree that the internet has had a major impact. I do agree that no one band or album saved the genre but maybe some bands/artists helped to propel it along more than others.

FWIW I'll go with Queensryche - Operation Mindcrime, Pallas - The Sentinal, Dream Theater - Images and Words, Roger Waters - Ammused To Death, Pink Floyd - Pulse, Spock's Beard - V, IQ - Ever and POS - Remedy Lane. These are some albums that piqued my interest in progressive music after a few years absence.

Regards,
Jon

[Zonefish]

Now by "saved," is that supposed to mean universal recognition as an accepted art form, or as a life preserver in an ocean of progless emptiness for prog-starved devotees? "Script" is accepted by many as raising the flag when the most "progressive" music in 1981 was Asia or Rush. I think KC's Discipline meets the general criteria too. However, we can each point to albums that personally reinvigorated interest the movement (I noted mine in an earlier post), but I don't think obscure bands (as much as you may love them or feel they pushed the progressive envelope) saved anything. They might have kept you lstening, but not many others. The question for the resurgence in the 90's is what bands/albums set the standard for what happened over the next decade. I'm not sure that Anglagard fits the bill, but Spock's Beard does. And to some extent Flower Kings and probably Porcupine Tree (FoaBP which charted on Billboard in 2007, although I prefer In Absentia). As much as I am not in love with all their music, Radiohead OK Computer made it OK for bands in the millenials (like Elbow, Mars Volta, etc...) to find commercial success using a progressive milieu/phraseology (I've always wanted to use the word milieu in a sentence, and now I can scratch that off the literary bucket list! ). But what do I know.

[SunshipVoyager]

Regarding Dream Theater, whether you like the type of music they do or even consider it prog can certainly be debated, but to the mainstream music world they have had a significantly higher impact than just aout anyone else during that time. In the late 90’s DT were the only newer related prog act that could actually tour (and sell out) as a headliner at a mid-sized venue level. There really was not anyone else during that time period that got that big, and it all started with “Images And Words”. I think it could be argued that most of the Magna Carta acts success was a direct result of Dream Theater's success and influence before them.

Steve Sly

Well, if "saving" a genre of music is giving it more commercial exposure, than I guess you have a point.

I don't see it that way, but then I have lived and fought for a dying music (jazz) with a great deal of frustration and, equally, a great deal of joy.

I think I probably see "saved" in this context in a slightly different fashion. Music changes, music evolves, different generations see it in a new light, sometimes ignore and forget it completely. If we are defining "prog" as music taking from the "classic" era of the music (1969-1975), but not really building anything new on those innovations, I guess I can agree.

And certainly the commercial success of D.T. paved the road for others- I just don't see it as "saving" anything.

[polmico]

It's the internet!

The internet helped kickstart a new interest in the music, and helped a new wave of bands come about. But, IMO, that original era was gone and gone forever. Not that many bands from the '70s were "saved" by the prog revival that the internet facilitated, although there has definitely been some (VDGG, Magma and Univers Zero come to mind).

Yup.

Let us just hope Rule 34 doesn't apply to prog . . .

[SteveSly]

Well, if "saving" a genre of music is giving it more commercial exposure, than I guess you have a point.

I don't see it that way, but then I have lived and fought for a dying music (jazz) with a great deal of frustration and, equally, a great deal of joy.

I think I probably see "saved" in this context in a slightly different fashion. Music changes, music evolves, different generations see it in a new light, sometimes ignore and forget it completely. If we are defining "prog" as music taking from the "classic" era of the music (1969-1975), but not really building anything new on those innovations, I guess I can agree.

And certainly the commercial success of D.T. paved the road for others- I just don't see it as "saving" anything.

I guess I am taking the term "saved" as how it would be interpreted by Prog magazine which is where these articles are appearing. Prog Magazine main focus is on more mainstream / commercial progressive rock of which bands like Dream Theater, Marillion, etc are a big part of what they cover.

Steve Sly

[trurl]

Define Album!

Define "define".

[SunshipVoyager]

I guess I am taking the term "saved" as how it would be interpreted by Prog magazine which is where these articles are appearing. Prog Magazine main focus is on more mainstream / commercial progressive rock of which bands like Dream Theater, Marillion, etc are a big part of what they cover.

Steve Sly

Fair enough, and with that interpretation, we agree that D.T. were noteworthy.

[JIF]

Point of Know Return - Kansas

Really? I don't think that saved prog, because prog was still alive(since '69). Prog, for some people, didn't die until 1978.

[Man In The Mountain]

Eddie Jobson saved prog!!!! Didn't he? With that ZINC album. I know he did sumptin important....

If not him, then was it Glass Hammer?

[trurl]

If not him, then was it Glass Hammer?

Hey, I wasn't going to be the one to say it

[Guess Who]

I'd have to say Images and Words as well.

Strangely enough, Dream Theater admires have forgotten about Queensryche who're REAL progressive-metal pioneers. I am fully sure that their masterpiece 'Operation Mindcrime' is more significant album to compare with everything DT ever released.

[Digital_Man]

A few that come to mind for me:

Yes-Drama

Rush-Permanent waves and moving pictures

ABWH-same (featuring four Yes members)

ELP-Emerson, Lake and Powell

Anglagard-hybris (maybe at the time it went under most people's radar but in retrospect it is considered a very important album in the so called prog resurgence.)

Dream Theater-images and words

Marillion-Misplaced childhood(as well as their first two)

GTR-same (in the sense that people discovered the two Steve's and their two bands because of it)

Asia-same (ditto above)

Ozric Tentacles-Jurassic Shift (didn't do much in the US but I think I read that it was in the top ten in the UK when it came out in 93). Never underestimate the power of the Ozrics.

Mars Volta-Deloused in the comatorium (maybe it came out kind of late to save prog but I bet a lot of younger folks discovered prog because of these guys and this album in particular since it was their first. I remember seeing a young guy at a Yes concert in 2004 wearing a Mars Volta t shirt and thinking cool this young guy has made the connection).

Queensryche-Operation Mindcrime (not really sure about the influence of this album but I suppose it was pretty influential as far as prog metal is concerned. Also, it was a concept album which must have been rare in 1988 especially for a metal band).

[Chonk]

I hate to say it, but I'd say it was Asia's first release. They had huge sales, tremendous radio airplay in the US, and a successful tour. Everything else mentioned was under the radar at that time. King Crimson did very well with the "Discipline" band, and they did introduce guitar synth to the world.

[JIF]

Strangely enough, Dream Theater admires have forgotten about Queensryche who're REAL progressive-metal pioneers. I am fully sure that their masterpiece 'Operation Mindcrime' is more significant album to compare with everything DT ever released.

I would agree with Dream Theater. They put the progressive back in progressive metal, as they were the first prog metal band to have a keyboardist.

A few that come to mind for me:

Yes-Drama

Rush-Permanent waves and moving pictures

ABWH-same (featuring four Yes members)

ELP-Emerson, Lake and Powell

Anglagard-hybris (maybe at the time it went under most people's radar but in retrospect it is considered a very important album in the so called prog resurgence.)

Dream Theater-images and words

Marillion-Misplaced childhood(as well as their first two)

GTR-same (in the sense that people discovered the two Steve's and their two bands because of it)

Asia-same (ditto above)

Ozric Tentacles-Jurassic Shift (didn't do much in the US but I think I read that it was in the top ten in the UK when it came out in 93). Never underestimate the power of the Ozrics.

Mars Volta-Deloused in the comatorium (maybe it came out kind of late to save prog but I bet a lot of younger folks discovered prog because of these guys and this album in particular since it was their first. I remember seeing a young guy at a Yes concert in 2004 wearing a Mars Volta t shirt and thinking cool this young guy has made the connection).

Queensryche-Operation Mindcrime (not really sure about the influence of this album but I suppose it was pretty influential as far as prog metal is concerned. Also, it was a concept album which must have been rare in 1988 especially for a metal band).

How could Drama by Yes have saved prog? That album caused the band to break up. I'm not saying I disagree with you, as Drama showed how prog could be done in the '80s.