Page 25 of 25 FirstFirst ... 152122232425
Results 601 to 624 of 624

Thread: Just Bought A Black Sabbath album

  1. #601
    Quote Originally Posted by Rael View Post
    This is what I was trying to say previously, but I suck at debating and cry like a 10 year old girl instead. Is it possible that Dickinson was somehow influenced by H&H? Of course! Is it possible that producer Martin Birch encouraged Dickinson to adapt a similar vocal approach on The Number of The Beast? Absolutely! But the only connection I can see is that Rainbow, Black Sabbath and Iron Maiden all utiliized Martin Birch as producer extensively. I just find it odd that after 30+ years of history, it is still a well known fact that Dickinson was highly influenced by Ian Gillan and Arthur Brown but nowhere have I seen it documented that after hearing H&H, Dickinson decided to change his style of singing. Surely an expert in voice technique would have picked up on it by now and would have pointed it out to the world. I can't believe Jeff Carney is the first and only person to hear the similiarity if it is true.

    "Until proven otherwise, I still think he took a lot of ideas from Dio circa H&H and used them with Maiden on NotB"

    But Jeff, since you're the only one making this claim with such insistence, don't you think the burdon of proof to show that Dickinson "took a lot of ideas from Dio circa H&H" is on you? I don't think a speech that Dickinson gave at MSG shortly after RJD's death is quite enough. Show me the proof that Dickinson took his ideas from H&H and I will happily buy you a six pack micro brew of your choosing!
    When you listen to something like the verses in "Run To The Hills," I think it is absolutely obvious. I guess I always thought this was common knowledge. It wasn't until the "internet" that I realized some folks dispute this and that I am "only one" discussing this only applies to this tiny thread.

    Here's 2 minutes on google:

    (2002 interview w/ RJD)

    You're regarded as one of the finest rock vocalists on the planet and have being a huge influence on the likes of Bruce Dickinson. Who influenced you as a singer?

    Paul Rogers (Free) has being an influence, and early on, before he started penning material such as Do Ya Think I1m Sexy?, Rod Stewart. He was a great rock 'n' roll singer early into his career, when he was in the Faces. One of my biggest vocal heroes was Steve Mariott. I used to cover a lot of these artists early in my career. I think you can have vocal tendencies to sound reminiscent of your influences, but the gift is to reach for things that are within your own realm of talent, then find your feet and develop your own style. Obviously that takes time and confidence.

    http://www.ronniejamesdiosite.com/Ne...nDragons.html\

    (2001 interview w/ Dickinson)

    Let’s talk a bit about your influences. I think, you were influenced mostly by Gillan and Dio, or were there others?

    A guy called Arthur Brown, who did the song “Fire” from the late Sixties, was a big influence of mine. Peter Hammill from a band called VAN DER GRAAF GENERATOR. And also Ian Anderson from JETHRO TULL, particularly, his lyrics. Very different influences. As of Gillan, in the early days it was very much so, but it changed a little bit when I’ve been with MAIDEN, it became much more kind of operatic than the Gillan thing.

    http://dmme.net/interviews/dickinson.html

    That's two minutes and already two other people who assume the influence of Dio on Dickinson is obvious.

    I'm sure there are more ...

    IMO, if Dickinson doesn't admit more strongly to how much Dio influenced his phrasing then it could only be because he is a little reluctant to admit just how much he lifted from him. But this is pure speculation, I admit. And frankly I am about out of gas on this topic. I think Bruce Dickinson is a poor man's Dio. If he arrived there more via Gillan, Arthur Brown and Hammill, then fine, but the result is the same. He's a "yeller" and has nowhere near the overall scope of vocal dynamics that the late Ronnie James Dio had, but he does sometimes use similar phrasing in his delivery. One listen to something like "Falling Off The Edge Of The World" and Ronnie's "Never ... no never again" and then Dickinson's phrasing on something like the "Raping the women and wasting the men" on "Run To The Hills" would seem to make this all too apparent, but perhaps it's a coincidence.

  2. #602
    But really people can sound similar without there being an influence. When i gig with my cover bands i often get asked if i'm heavily influenced by Steve Lukather. And i can see the similarities but i've never listened to a Toto album the whole way through.
    And in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love you make.

  3. #603
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Mission Viejo, California
    Posts
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffCarney View Post
    I think Bruce Dickinson is a poor man's Dio.
    Seriously, I think that is rather insulting to a vocalist of Dickinson's caliber. I hear no similarities between the two vocalists. If Dickinson is a poor man's anyone, it is Rob Halford. Bruce is a great vocalist. You're starting to sound like Rufus. You just keep restating the same point. Next you'll be saying that Justin Hawkins is a poor man's Freddie Mercury.

  4. #604
    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    Seriously, I think that is rather insulting to a vocalist of Dickinson's caliber. I hear no similarities between the two vocalists. If Dickinson is a poor man's anyone, it is Rob Halford. Bruce is a great vocalist. You're starting to sound like Rufus. You just keep restating the same point. Next you'll be saying that Justin Hawkins is a poor man's Freddie Mercury.
    I restated something simply as a means of wrapping this up and confirming how I view it. And only in the sense that I still hold that opinion even if Dickinson arrived at his style more as a result of listening to others besides Dio.

    If you actually believe that "Rufus" and I have anything in common, you need a reality check, IMO.

    I don't know who Justin Hawkins is, but I just googled him and apparently he's in a band heavily influenced by Queen, so maybe you picked a bad example for whatever point it is that you have?

  5. #605
    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    Seriously, I think that is rather insulting to a vocalist of Dickinson's caliber.
    That's an insult, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    If Dickinson is a poor man's anyone, it is Rob Halford.
    So, is that any less insulting?

  6. #606
    PE Member Since 4/9/2002 NeonKnight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    West Milford NJ
    Posts
    198
    I don't think Dickinson is anyone's "poor man", I bet his bank account makes RJD's look poor in comparison.
    “Where words fail, music speaks.” - Hans Christian Anderson

  7. #607
    facetious maximus Yves's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    1,621
    Dickinson is richer than Halford and the Dio estate combined!
    "Corn Flakes pissed in. You ranted. Mission accomplished. Thread closed."

    -Cozy 3:16-

  8. #608
    Well, if we're measuring things that way, I suspect just about EVERYONE is a poor man's Ozzy.


  9. #609
    facetious maximus Yves's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    1,621
    Don't you mean a poor man's SHARON!
    "Corn Flakes pissed in. You ranted. Mission accomplished. Thread closed."

    -Cozy 3:16-

  10. #610
    PE Member Since 4/9/2002 NeonKnight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    West Milford NJ
    Posts
    198
    Yeah, Ozzy wins the fat wallet contest, easy.

    If he could only find it....SHARON!!!!!
    “Where words fail, music speaks.” - Hans Christian Anderson

  11. #611
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Mission Viejo, California
    Posts
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    That's an insult, but...



    So, is that any less insulting?
    I wasn't actually trying to insult anyone, but thank you again for getting on my case yet again when it's not needed. I was simple saying that one is going to compare Dickinson to anyone, it would be Rob Halford(not RJD). Again, Ron, in your attempt to be a totally jerk to me, you missed my previous post where I said that Dickinson isn't a "poor man's" anything.

  12. #612
    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    I wasn't actually trying to insult anyone, but thank you again for getting on my case yet again when it's not needed. I was simple saying that one is going to compare Dickinson to anyone, it would be Rob Halford(not RJD). Again, Ron, in your attempt to be a totally jerk to me, you missed my previous post where I said that Dickinson isn't a "poor man's" anything.
    Sorry, JIF, I'm simply trying to follow you, not looking to target you. You posted conflicting statements.

  13. #613
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Mission Viejo, California
    Posts
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    Sorry, JIF, I'm simply trying to follow you, not looking to target you. You posted conflicting statements.
    I was just trying to figure out Jeff, and why he keeps referring to Bruce as a "second rate RJD", or whatever he said. I don't hear much Ronnie James Dio in Bruce's singing, I hear Halford. I don't hear much "opera" in Dio's voice. I think Bruce is a great singer, and he is the reason that I got into Maiden in the first place.

  14. #614
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    La Florida
    Posts
    7,554
    Okay... Rat Salad vs. Moby Dick

    The first time I heard Rat Salad (like 6 months ago ) I thought immediately this is Black Sabbath's "Moby Dick." I can't say one is better than the other but I like Bill Ward's solo a lot more than Bonzo's. One thing about Bonzo, his solos were terminal. Great drummer but tedious, overlong solos that go on too long. Well, the only Bill Ward drum solo I've ever heard is on Rat Salad, but I think it swings like a mofo.

  15. #615
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Mission Viejo, California
    Posts
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    Okay... Rat Salad vs. Moby Dick

    The first time I heard Rat Salad (like 6 months ago ) I thought immediately this is Black Sabbath's "Moby Dick." I can't say one is better than the other but I like Bill Ward's solo a lot more than Bonzo's. One thing about Bonzo, his solos were terminal. Great drummer but tedious, overlong solos that go on too long. Well, the only Bill Ward drum solo I've ever heard is on Rat Salad, but I think it swings like a mofo.
    This I agree with. A fine example of Bill Ward's jazzy, swing style.

  16. #616
    Bonham never had anywhere near the chops to be playing those 20-30 minute improvs he did live.Hell, even if he did have impeccable tecnique, it's to keep any solo interesting that long and he was way out of his league trying to.DUGGA DUGGA DUGGA DUGGA hand foot triplets for about half the solo time to fill in the gaps where he couldn't think of anything interesting.

    I guess it was just a staple of the era, but he's among the most guilty of turning the "drum solo" into a joke imo.

  17. #617
    Quote Originally Posted by JIF View Post
    This I agree with. A fine example of Bill Ward's jazzy, swing style.
    Not in the same league as Paice , Bruford or Hiseman though if the jazzy swingy sound is your thing !

  18. #618
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    La Florida
    Posts
    7,554
    Yeah Bonzos solos where tedious. You could read the book Moby Dick during one of his solos........

  19. #619
    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    Yeah Bonzos solos where tedious. You could read the book Moby Dick during one of his solos........
    Hate to say it, because I love the guy's playing in a band context, but... yeah, pretty much. The only solo he ever did that was worth a crap was Rock And Roll because it's only 30 seconds log But geeze, 5 minutes of slapping a drum with his hands and bending the pitch- dude, I can do that and if I smoked 13 joints I might amuse myself that much as well...

    Now Ian Paice- THAT mofo could solo.

  20. #620
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    La Florida
    Posts
    7,554
    Ian Paice- THAT mofo could solo.
    I saw Deep Purple live in 2001. It was the concert that was filmed for the DVD - Perehelion. Ian's solo does not appear on the DVD but I saw him play a solo with one hand. The guy smoked that night. But yeah I agree about Bonzo when he just played accompaniment, but his solos were terminal.

  21. #621
    Quote Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
    Not in the same league as Paice , Bruford or Hiseman though if the jazzy swingy sound is your thing !
    Love Paice, but I think his swing comes more from a shuffle type of feel. Ward is almost right out of a Big Band.

  22. #622
    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    Okay... Rat Salad vs. Moby Dick

    The first time I heard Rat Salad (like 6 months ago ) I thought immediately this is Black Sabbath's "Moby Dick." I can't say one is better than the other but I like Bill Ward's solo a lot more than Bonzo's. One thing about Bonzo, his solos were terminal. Great drummer but tedious, overlong solos that go on too long. Well, the only Bill Ward drum solo I've ever heard is on Rat Salad, but I think it swings like a mofo.
    Wouldn't "Moby Dick" be Zeppelin's "Toad"?

    I see both as an extension of that concept, but anyway ... I agree that Ward on a 4 piece kit was just a mofo on fire.

    He also had some ridiculous solos as his kits got bigger. I was just listening to Providence '74 a couple of weeks ago and he takes a solo on that show that is absolutely ridiculous. Not "epic" length either. In an out in maybe five minutes.

  23. #623
    Ward's break in Sweet Leaf is my favourite.Great jazzy triplet feel.

    It's quite unique as a rock concept as well.i can't think of many similar instances of duel guitar\drum improvising in the middle of a song like that.

    Palmer and Emerson maybe, but usually Palmer would go mental behind a composed riff or line from Keith.Not both soloing at once.

  24. #624
    Member viukkis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Espoo, Finland
    Posts
    163
    Quote Originally Posted by Watanabe View Post
    i can't think of many similar instances of duel guitar\drum improvising in the middle of a song like that.
    There's a rather lengthy one in Uriah Heep's The Magician's Birthday. Blew my mind when I first heard it in the tender age of 12, although I'm not sure what I would think of it if I heard it now for the first time

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •