Anyone hear any rumors? Epic frankenprog or a return to form?
Anyone hear any rumors? Epic frankenprog or a return to form?
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart
It's on Wikipedia as well, I think. I expect "Dramatic Turn" part 2, really. Their last three albums have been same, same, same, even with a new drummer.
Well hopefully, they'll let Mangini write his own parts and it will be adventurous and different. I never understood why Petrucci wrote his parts out in the first place. I was very unimpressed with the last effort.
Fascinating the difference in opinions this band generates; I thought Black Clouds couldn't have been more different for them, with Dramatic Turn going back to their roots. I guess I expect their music to still sound Dream Theater-ish, no matter what changes they inject. But hey, different strokes...
Greg, why'd you think Black Clouds was so different? Not disagreeing, just want to hear your thoughts.
These ears enjoyed ADTOE more than Black Clouds or Systematic Chaos; but I still rate ADTOE in the bottom half of their catalogue.
Death inspires me like a dog inspires a rabbit
Don't agree here at all. I can't stand Systematic Chaos and Black Clouds - I never listen to them. ADToE, however, was definitely a return to what I like about them, although I did think it was a little "safe."
Yes! Completely agree. I never understood that, either.
Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally
Wilton Said... , Toronto Art Rock.
http://www.wiltonsaid.com
To me, it was VERY safe, and that was what was frustrating about it; there were moments, like the intro to "Lost Not Forgotten" or... well, that's all, really, that suggested they were trying to broaden themselves, but I'd listen to a song like "Outcry" and think, "Huh, that was a song, all right, and it existed. How does it go again?"
And as much as I've tried to avoid slamming LaBrie, I've been getting spoiled with other prog and/or metal bands with better singers; Haken's Ross Jennings, David Longdon, Ted Leonard, etc... and LaBrie suddenly just can't compare with any of them. He doesn't help put anything over emotionally... he sings high notes and breathes low notes without any passion. He just "is;" he's a functional singer. That's it.
I'll probably get the new one because I still have a tremendous amount of respect for Petrucci and Rudess, and Myung and Mangini aren't bad either. But I really hope that they open themselves out more and not worry about whether they sound hip and metal enough.
You'll get no argument from me that LaBrie is by far the weak point of the band.
Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally
I didn't get much throwback vibe off of ADToE, doesn't sound much like Awake or Images to me. I enjoyed it, but probably not in my top 5 DT albums. Agree with all the Labrie comments, my guess is he is broken down from all the years of being put in a creative box by Petrucci and until recently Portnoy. Myung, where is that guy? As a bassist he was one of my idols until he seemed to quit trying sometime the last decade (though to be fair, his half-assed is still way better than most players...)
American Hollow - my prog band.
I'd love to see an album a bit more like Falling Into Infinity this time around. I liked ADTOE when it came out but I haven't enjoyed it much since. I don't think it has much to do with who is drumming, to be honest. It may not be popular opinion, but gimme another "Anna Lee" or "Peruvian Skies", songs that I'd much rather listen to than the Tormato-on-steroids approach of most of the ADTOE epics.
Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.
*** Join me in the Garden of Delights for 3 hours of tune-spinning... every Saturday at 5pm EST on Deep Nuggets radio! www.deepnuggets.com ***
My issue with Myung is that he spent too many records playing the same riff as Petrucci and he was buried in the mix. At least on the last record I actually heard a couple licks now and then. There was a time when DT would let the music breath a little (more in the Moore years) and you could actually hear individual parts. Listen to the last 18 minutes of Awake. Some amazing stuff there. And on the Metropolis album, there was plenty of this as well.
I was listening to the Cleaning Out the Closet stuff this afternoon. First time in a long time and that Raise the Knife actually made me sit up in my chair. Damn, I want THAT band back.
Let's be careful about ripping into Labrie. Some of the prog babes get a little protective of their James.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart
I agree with you. I like my Dream Theater with more melody. No one is ever going to accuse them of being great songwriters, and I know many who say that they only listen to them for the shred factor, but I like the shredding more balanced with melody.
I think their problems really began when Portnoy and Petrucci began producing them. They really need an outside producer, IMO. But that's an old argument that has been discussed here many times.
Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally
And I, in turn, agree with you - on both counts! The shred factor will always be a part of it, and that's fine. But I don't need yet another hour of it. I don't need the obligatory "here comes the soloing" section in every bloated song... "here's Petrucci's lengthy solo, followed by six bars, and now it's Jordan's turn!" - we already have those albums, guys. DT are actually quite good at melodies too, and can craft good little songs (look at "Cover My Eyes", that's a great track!)... I will buy the next album as I always do, but if it's another Dramatic Turn Of Events, I suspect it will gather dust on the shelf while I play songs like "Misunderstood" or "Repentance" instead.
As for the outside producer, I've always been on the 'resounding yes!' side. They desperately need (IMO) someone to say "No!" once in a while. If they stomp their feet and swear and scream about it - good. That means the producer is doing his job.
Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.
*** Join me in the Garden of Delights for 3 hours of tune-spinning... every Saturday at 5pm EST on Deep Nuggets radio! www.deepnuggets.com ***
Re: outside producer
Wont happen again; although DT are successful; the income stream saved (or alternatively earned) from producing in-house precludes them from going outside, especially when one also factors in the 'creative control' angle.
Death inspires me like a dog inspires a rabbit
It's popular with me, I actually love "Falling into Infinity" and also the Demos CD from that album.
It's true that Myung did get a little more life in him on the last album (maybe Portnoy was keeping him down?) and deviated from simply doubling Petrucci's parts. I would love to see more stuff like he did on "Lifting Shadows from a Dream" and "Those who help to set the sun".
American Hollow - my prog band.
I noticed more myung this time around as well. Even live you cant hear him, at least in the past, didnt see this last tour. I have zero knowledge about this sort of thing, or if this has anything to do with the whys and where fores, but Portnoy said he never had Myung in his monitors and didn't follow the bass but followed Petrucci.
The last album was great !
Besides some different drumming stuff from Portnoy like blast beats in the first track, and some unusual keyboard patches from Rudess, listening to the all-instrumental disc 3 of the limited edition confirmed what I thought when I first heard the album proper - that they had written a bunch of classic rock tunes
I listen to the instrumental disc more than anything, and even that I don't listen to that much.
Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally
I still like that covers disc, the one with Stargazer, Odyssey, and Larks Tongue.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart
Totally agree. Mangini may have had his parts written for him, but he really smoked those parts. He is the drummer that Portnoy tried to be. Loved his Kick sound, his one hand rolls and 64th note cymbal rides (I'll bet Petrucci didn't write those for him) There just aren't that many drummers who could pull off what is on that album. I think they were tighter when they went off into their wank cycles - which always make me smile. I thought the band was better, the songs were memorable and the production was up. Thank goodness, no more cookie Monster vocals. I heard Myung far better than I ever had before, and he was stellar. I cant really find anything on that album that is honestly "bad" (including the voice). For me, their best is yet ahead of them, so why should I not look forward to another stellar album? Turn of events and Octavarium are my favorite DT albums. On those albums, I think they are just being themselves, I didn't like Silver linings or the vampire one - I think Portnoy was pushing them to be more like XSevenfold. Appealing to the young. That for me is like taking a dump on my doorstep and asking me to say thank you.
I got nothin' :
...avoiding any implication that I have ever entertained a cognizant thought.
live samples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwbCFGbAtFc
https://youtu.be/AEE5OZXJioE
https://soundcloud.com/yodelgoat/yod...om-a-live-show
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUe3YhCjy6g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VOCJokzL_s
For me, 'A Dramatic Turn of Events' was alright, and I've nothing intelligent to say for or against Mangini's drumming, but it seems to me like the beating heart and personality of the band was largely absent. It sounded good, the songs were alright (sometimes better), and it all seemed fine. I like it, and hope the next one is a step further along in a good direction. But I miss the charisma and personality of Portnoy's input, and I thought 'A Dramatic Turn of Events' was no better than 'Black Clouds' and 'Systematic Chaos'. In fact, I enjoyed those both a little bit more, as they had elements that weren't just 'classic' Dream Theater stylings a la 'Images & Words' / 'Awake'. I also liked the 'Black Clouds' cover versions bonus album a lot, and can't really imagine them doing that sort of thing without Portnoy quite the same way.
So if 'A Dramatic Turn' was a return to their roots, if you will, then I hope the next one has a bit more adventure to it. I'd also like melodic songs rather than whizzing scalic wankfests (though I realise some DT fans prefer the shredding to the singability of the songs, I'm not one of them). :-)
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