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Thread: JAZZ Discussion

  1. #376
    Member hippypants's Avatar
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    My ECM pick this week is Jan Garbarek's Paths, Prints album with Bill Frisell, Eberhard Weber, and Jon Christensen. This is one of his more accessible works, with some interestingly light jamming at times reminds me of the Gateway stuff.

  2. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by hippypants View Post
    My ECM pick this week is Jan Garbarek's Paths, Prints album with Bill Frisell, Eberhard Weber, and Jon Christensen. This is one of his more accessible works, with some interestingly light jamming at times reminds me of the Gateway stuff.
    Great record, but I prefer the follow-up, Wayfarer, same group except Michael Di Pasqua replaces Christensen.

    Not sure I agree with you on the Gateway comparison, but nice to hear someone give this album some love, nevertheless.

  3. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerjo View Post
    I'm working through my Brad Mehldau box, some Esbjörn Svensson (though the occasional electronics are disconcerting). Any other contemporary piano trios I should be aware of?
    Marcin Wasilewski
    McCoy Tyner's Double Trios (released in the mid 90s IIRC, but sounds quite contemporary)
    Fred Herschel Trio
    Last edited by Father Tiresias; 03-27-2014 at 06:55 PM.

  4. #379
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    Serious Q: as a person who knows v. little about jazz, would y'all say it is fairly or relatively correct to state that while pop/rock hold the beat & the melody as sacrosanct that for jazz the improvisation, and the feel of the playing and the sound are just as, or even more important than melody and a steady beat.

  5. #380
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    I don't know much about jazz & I don't listen to much but I know what I like:


  6. #381
    Member wideopenears's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    Serious Q: as a person who knows v. little about jazz, would y'all say it is fairly or relatively correct to state that while pop/rock hold the beat & the melody as sacrosanct that for jazz the improvisation, and the feel of the playing and the sound are just as, or even more important than melody and a steady beat.
    In general, you'll hear two things stressed as "definers" of Jazz, amongst Jazzheads: improv, and swing.

    Swing is very much about "the beat." It's impossible to define objectively, IMO.

    I'd say Swing is more important, overall, than even improv, in defining "Jazz." But again, it's like defining "Prog"--an inexact science, at best.

    There is Jazz that some say doesn't swing, in a traditional way. And there's plenty of "through-composed" music that many people call Jazz. But in general, I think Swing and Improv are vital to Jazz.

  7. #382
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    Thanks. I know that at some point around the 50s after Big Band, that a lot of the devleopment in jazz was that it lost its "dance music" tag and became "shut up, sit down & listen" music.

  8. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    Thanks. I know that at some point around the 50s after Big Band, that a lot of the devleopment in jazz was that it lost its "dance music" tag and became "shut up, sit down & listen" music.
    True. Bebop was the culprit and it actually started in the '40s. Among other things, drumming became more improvisational and interactive than it was in the swing era. A non-jazz initiated guy once asked me how you follow the beat in (straight ahead) jazz and I told him to listen to the hi-hat; it's generally the only part of the drum kit that's keeping a repetitive pattern; clicking on the 2nd and 4th beat of each bar. When (drummer) Tony Williams started playing with Miles Davis in the '60s, he changed that to some extent; often clicking the hi-hat on every beat. A lot of drummers jumped on the bandwagon after he started that, but it's still just as common to hear them play the high-hat on the two and four.

    Another thing about bebop is that it was often played at brisk tempos; too fast to dance to. The practitioners like Charlie Parker and Dizzy Gillespie often wrote tunes that sounded something like improvisations over the forms of blues and/or tin pan alley show tunes.

  9. #384
    Member wideopenears's Avatar
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    The bass player is actually the primary timekeeper, at least in Bop/Post Swing Jazz. Also, the ride cymbal is often four to the bar.

  10. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by wideopenears View Post
    Also, the ride cymbal is often four to the bar.
    But not generally a consistently repetitive pattern. Kind of a "ting, tingaling, ting, tingaling, tingaling, ting, ting," etc..." if that makes sense.

  11. #386
    Member wideopenears's Avatar
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    Ya, true....
    I read that and it sounded like "My Favorite Things," Ernie.
    Ting, tingaling, ting, tingaling, ting ting ta ting...

  12. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by wideopenears View Post
    Ya, true....
    I read that and it sounded like "My Favorite Things," Ernie.
    Ting, tingaling, ting, tingaling, ting ting ta ting...

  13. #388
    Listening to a fantastic live album on the Hat Hut label by the Vienna Art Orchestra called A Notion In Perpetual Motion. These musicians are so good it's ridiculous. Adventurous, modern big band music with enough traditional elements for mainstream listeners. Beautiful recording to boot!

  14. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid View Post
    Listening to a fantastic live album on the Hat Hut label by the Vienna Art Orchestra called A Notion In Perpetual Motion. These musicians are so good it's ridiculous. Adventurous, modern big band music with enough traditional elements for mainstream listeners. Beautiful recording to boot!
    Reid, i haven't heard this album but years ago i owned an lp by VAO called "From Ragtime To No Time" that i loved.I lent it to someone and never got it back and it slipped from my memory.I want to see if that record's available on cd.
    "please do not understand me too quickly"-andre gide

  15. #390
    Not sure if that one is available? The title I have was re-issued on their Hatology imprint. Prices vary wildly on these Hat Hut CDs, so shop around. I bought three titles from Grooves, inc. for 8 bucks each.

  16. #391
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reid View Post
    Listening to a fantastic live album on the Hat Hut label by the Vienna Art Orchestra called A Notion In Perpetual Motion. These musicians are so good it's ridiculous. Adventurous, modern big band music with enough traditional elements for mainstream listeners. Beautiful recording to boot!
    VAO is quite good. I hear Mingus, Carla Bley, Zappa, and obvious nods to classical music. Concerto Piccolo should be your next pickup.


    On the big band side, ever hear ONJ (Orchestre National de Jazz)? They are collective out of France that have had rotating leaders/members since the mid 80s. http://www.onj.org/onjstory-tous-les-orchestres/

    I'm partial to the Barthelemy led albums, but you'll find a great deal of French scene players throughout the years, not to mention recent collaborations with Robert Wyatt and John Hollenbeck.
    WANTED: Sig-worthy quote.

  17. #392
    I have the 2CD set Shut Up And Dance, that they recorded with Hollenbeck. I like that one a lot. Just ordered Artistry In Rhythm.

    BTW, Jazz Loft is going out of business, and they have everything on sale.

  18. #393
    Boo! walt's Avatar
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    Just read that a 2cd release is coming this spring..concerts by Jimmy Giuffre from 1965 in NYC..One cd is a trio with Giuffre, Richard Davis-bass-Joe Chambers-drums;Cd #2 is a quartet with Giuffre,Don Friedmann-piano,Joe Chambers-drums, and Barre Phillips-bass.

    A record producer who knows about such things says this is a legit release.If so, this is exciting news, to me, at least.No word as to sound quality.

    I'll be watching for this.
    "please do not understand me too quickly"-andre gide

  19. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    Serious Q: as a person who knows v. little about jazz, would y'all say it is fairly or relatively correct to state that while pop/rock hold the beat & the melody as sacrosanct that for jazz the improvisation, and the feel of the playing and the sound are just as, or even more important than melody and a steady beat.
    If a tune is being played in jazz, most heavyweight improvisers would tell you the melody and changes remain paramount, even if they are re harmonized and reinterpreted; they're still at the core of the song and improvisers should serve th song, not the other way around. Even in freer terrain, if the improv is rotatingj around a firm the form remains paramount...even if it is sometimes twisted so much that it becomes hard to discern for the less than familiar listeners. Improvisation is a key aspect of much of jazz, but the song remains essential...just ask Jihn Abercrombie, Bill Frisell, Kurt Rosnwinkeo or Brad Mehldau.....

  20. #395
    Member wideopenears's Avatar
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    I'm digging Ambrose Akinmusire's new one quite a bit....

  21. #396
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    ^^^^ I have When the Heart Emerges Glistening and as a sideman on a few things. Good player.
    Hell, they ain't even old-timey ! - Homer Stokes

  22. #397
    I've been spinning these this past week:

    Ted Curson-Pop Wine / A 1971 French release with some very cohesive free playing.

    Archie Shepp-Steam / Mid 70s live trio date w/ Cameron Brown & Beaver Harris
    Good recording, and Shepp sounds inspired.

    Abercrombie/Johnson/Erskine/Surman-November / Superb material and playing.
    Shoulda bought this 20 years ago, but better late than never.

    The Paul Bley Quartet w/ Frisell, Motian, Surman
    Late 80s ECM date.

  23. #398
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    Been digging Count Basie and Dizzy Gillespie-The Gifted Ones,a Pablo cd from 1977,with Ray Brown and Mickey Roker.Even though Diz and Basie come from different "schools" they work and mesh well together here.

    Good stuff.
    "please do not understand me too quickly"-andre gide

  24. #399
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    I've been on a huge Wynton Marsalis binge. Because of his many ridiculous (IMNSO) statements about what jazz is and should be, and his commentary about things like Miles Davis's clothes, I wanted so much not to like his music, but alas, resistance was futile. His earlier records, anyway, are sublime (e.g., the debut, Think of One, and the masterpiece and my favorite, Black Codes from the Underground). I've ordered a couple more that are on their way (J Mood, Live at Blues Alley and the not so early in his career, Citi Movement). I happen to love brother Branford's playing as well. Any other fans? Detractors?

  25. #400
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    NP:



    Just arrived today.

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