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Thread: Perceptions of PE

  1. #51
    Moderator Sean's Avatar
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    Agreed. Bring on the hot topics! Maybe we should offer an incentive of some sort....

  2. #52
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    prog babes would be an incentive

  3. #53
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    They would be, but their thread was closed.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  4. #54
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    considering that that was one of the longest, if not the longest thread on PE3, I kind of see Seans point.

  5. #55
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    But that's no different from the old forum - except on the old forum, that thread probably would have gone private. Many of those private threads went on for hundreds of pages.

    I'd argue that the current system is better.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  6. #56
    Member Yodelgoat's Avatar
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    Im suprised by the number of people logged on to this site, yet Like Sean says, theres only about 30 or 40 that do most of the posting, unless its in a Yes thread. I like am not a main poster here but I read alot, and I post at few times a week. is the number of posts permanently broke? I'm still at zero, yet I'm sure I have more than that. I'd be interested to see just how little I contribute.

  7. #57
    As a life long fan of prog I thought I had a pretty good grip on who most of the players were in the prog scene going back to its very beginnings. After joining PE I very quickly discovered that there was a lot I didn't know.
    And this site is responsible for opening the door to a wealth of easily accessible information on not just prog but many other topics as well.
    I find most of the posters to be respectful and sincere with engaging in discussions but there are a few rebel rousers who seem to thrive on creating issues.
    I think as long as artist can accept the bad criticism along with the good it could very beneficial to look in or get involved with some discussions.
    My wife wonders what I'm doing on here all time but she knows I'm into my music and I enjoy being here so she doesn't make an issue of it.
    Not really sure what your looking to change here I think it's working fine.

  8. #58
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gladiator1634 View Post
    As a life long fan of prog I thought I had a pretty good grip on who most of the players were in the prog scene going back to its very beginnings. After joining PE I very quickly discovered that there was a lot I didn't know.
    Man, you ain't kiddin'.

    Growing up, I was "the music trivia geek." I was the guy who knew everything about music.

    And then I found this place. I'm a child among men. (And women, of course. )
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  9. #59
    Still alive! Hunnibee's Avatar
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    It's funny, after nearly 10 years here, to look back and see how far I've grown musically. I had no clue the world of Prog was so huge (much like Scott and Gladiator) and I've learned so much and fell in love with this incredible, awesome music! Prog Ears was the first Prog board I discovered. I followed Sean's link on a Kansas fans board one day and voila... there was the Prog universe laid out before me. I have been loyal to this place ever since. Being socially awkward, I haven't made the close friends that others have, and I've had some problems with some of the people here, but for the most part, I feel this is where I belong when it comes to Progressive music. The friends I have managed to make are awesome, and I appreciate them a lot! Some of you here did me a kindness once, and I won't ever forget that! (where's that "love" emote, Duncan? )

    As for outside perceptions, I get some feedback whenever I mention Prog Ears on Facebook or a band's board. It seems a lot of women will lurk here but not post. As Amy says, their voices might seem small. It's a huge board. I remember feeling very lost at first here, so i can understand. Unfortunately, I also hear negative things like "I don't post there anymore because they're jerks" or "I don't get respect for my opinions", etc. I think some women feel this place is like a Jr. High locker room. I know many guys who won't come here, either. I have tirelessly defended this place. I remember some heated discussions with my fellow Yes fans over Geoff Downs. Thank god that's all blown over now.

    I don't know enough musicians to know how they feel. Prog Ears is more than just a place to promote your band or upcoming concerts or your internet radio show. Good god, there's as many internet radio shows as there are Prog bands, it seems!

    I'm just glad this place exists. The music I've discovered here and the good people, too... it's been an incredible, sometimes dysfunctional (like family), and beautiful ride. I will keep on defending this place and encouraging others to join or post more. I can't convince Michael Howarth to rejoin and a few others, but I'm trying.

    Anyway, blah blah. Some people "get" this place and some don't. I'm glad I stuck around, thin skinned as I am. The music is more than worth it!
    "The mountains are calling and I must go" - John Muir

    "To breathe the same air as the angels, you must go to Tahoe" - Mark Twain

  10. #60
    Moderator Duncan Glenday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    I don't think much of the outside world knows we are here outside of the previously mentioned PA members.
    You'd be amazed by how many top-level artists read the forum regularly - usually as guests, but often as anonymous members. In fact one very well respected artist just joined the site this week. If those artists choose anonymity, or prefer not to announce themselves, we respect that ... which is why I won't name names. But the site is read by more industry insiders than you may think - including promoters, labels, PR people, festival organizers, and so on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean View Post
    Was it ever mean spirited? Ever seen someone cut to shreds and left for dead?
    When Nektar was going through a hard time about 5 or 6 years ago, this board was f***ing ruthless. I hope I never see that here again.

    Quote Originally Posted by zombywoof View Post
    At The Jethro Tull Board, they often discuss a love/hate relationship with the artist's we like the most. The artists we like can sometimes irritate us the most, as we expect more from them. That site is well-known for its ability to criticize Ian Anderson, yet still be courteous. I believe we have that ethic here. Afterall, we're all here because we are passionate about progressive rock. I, for one, don't enjoy talking about music I don't like or don't have an interest in.
    So how do we encourage that tone here..?

    Quote Originally Posted by Facelift View Post
    Opinions don't appear to be in particularly short supply here. I'm sure if you or other mods occasionally made posts requesting thoughts about a particular issue, you'd get plenty of responses. You might have to get the ball rolling yourselves, though.
    Posting a daily Featured CD is a pretty significant effort in that direction ... but feel free to offer specific suggestions.
    Regards,

    Duncan

  11. #61
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
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    That site is well-known for its ability to criticize Ian Anderson, yet still be courteous.
    That's the key. For me it's very simple, if I know I'm addressing the musician I'll be courteous. I don't get anything out of being critical and just trying to stir shit by being rude to the musician. OTOH, I don't have a problem saying [insert name of song, band, album, etc.] it sucks, it's awfull, whatever because I don't assume Mr. Big Name, Big Five musician is reading what I'm writing.

    Now, one thing I've noticed over the years is that when a musician/band comes to PE (it's not anyone famous obviously) and starts a thread about his/her new project, and the first thing they say in the post is "Now, be brutally honest, I really wanna know what you guys think of my new composition" I just smell trouble . I mean I've seen it before with my own eyes on PE. Not many times but it's happened. Newbie prog artist wants "brutal honesty" and when he gets brutal honesty his feelings get hurt. And it's only human that his response would be "I'd like to see you try it. Can you do better?" God I just cringe every time I read a thread title or a post when an "artist" wants brutal honesty. Personally, I'd just throw the music out there and expect people to be honest without me asking for "brutal honesty."

    You'd be amazed by how many top-level artists read the forum regularly - usually as guests, but often as anonymous members.
    I would be amazed, but I'm not all that surprised. In this "Google is your friend" world we live in I can only imagine that Mr. Famous Prog Musician has Googled himself and followed a few links here and there to see what people think of their work. It's only human and natural.

    I liked Polmico's post responding to Cozy's post. I see Cozy's POV but I think Polmico's response is probably representative of a lot of his here. To me I treat PE as a classic/rock and general music discussion site more than anything. I need a place to talk about the Beatles, Zeppelin, Yes, Metallica, Tull, etc., etc. There's more than enough classic/rock discussion to keep me interested. Yeah it's also become sort of "social media network" like Twitter and FB (places I'd never think of joining). That's not what the mods want, we understand that. I just go with the flow. I don't start threads just for the hell of it. Some members just love to start threads about whatever pops into their minds though. As just a regular "Joe PE member" I find it funny sometimes but I can see how frustrating it is for the mods too.
    Last edited by Vic2012; 02-28-2013 at 05:05 AM.

  12. #62
    Member Vic2012's Avatar
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    I wanted to also say that one of the BIG reasons why I think PE is successfull as a music discussion forum is because it's not a dedicated, band specific forum. I've been a member of band forums before. Eventually you feel stifled and you have to walk on eggshells. It's one thing to use common courtesy, and it's another to feel that the slightest critique of the band/artist invites a slap on the wrist. Here we're free to be honest. And it's also good that the mods will slap us upside the head when we need it.

  13. #63
    Do you remember how Howard Stern used to critique women on his show? PE can be like that for an artist. It's generally done with a certain brutal lack of any tact that can feel very personal to people that just aren't used to the way internet boards work. It would be like having a baby, and to you it's a beautiful and perfect baby and you show it to people and they'll say, "Yeah... but wow, look, the nose is kind of big... and the eyes are too wide. And what's up with those lips? I do like the tongue. And the feet. It's not that cute though. Now Anglagard, that's a perfect baby."

    And you're like, "I'm standing right here!! Fuck!" You have to get to where you realize that you're NOT standing right there, as far as anyone posting is concerned. Or the ones that think you might be don't give a crap.

    To actually hang out here as an artist you have to just basically be able to say, "Your opinion means nothing and you're wrong, and I respect you for it. Unless you love my baby with all your heart, in which case then, you're totally right and awesome."

    It's hard to get used to the idea that it's not really personal, and it all comes off differently than someone would be face to face. I slag off lots of stuff myself without giving a lot of thought to how that might feel when I'm on the giving end.

    Also, PE is a really good and important place to get opinions and talk music but in terms of the market at large it's really pretty minor. If everyone here decides that the guitar sound on an album sucks it doesn't really affect the bottom line. But, it's nice to have good feedback from here. I think criticism is good to hear, and useful, even if it's given in an abrasive way.

    So, for most artists I think it's just a bad idea to hang out here and I think that's why it has a bad rep when you read about it from artists and such. For those with a thick skin it's a lot of fun though!

  14. #64
    Recently Resurrected zombywoof's Avatar
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    After thinking about this thread, I will admit to one flaw about this board. Sometimes its hard to have a negative or contrary opinion without getting a swarm of sarcastic, snarky responses. Having grown up in a sarcastic household, I know how to take it and dish it back, but not everyone can. Granted, no one has insulted me in any way and it hasn't stopped me from posting contrary opinions. :-) If you want to see people rip members to shreds, look into the Zappa forum sometime. There's a place I'm genuinely afraid to be myself. If they decide they don't like you, they sometimes devote entire threads to attacking you in a very public way. I've never seen anything like that at PE, nothing even remotely personal about fellow members or artists.

  15. #65
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Glenday View Post
    So how do we encourage that tone here..?
    Honestly?


    I'd suggest PMs and temporary bans for folks that get out of hand. And for those that "cross the line," actual permanent bans (i.e. not a ban where you just sign up again under a different name).

    For the most part, I like the laissez-faire moderation here - we're all treated like adults and can usually work out our own problems - but if you're looking for that more civil tone, that comes from moderation, IMHO.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  16. #66
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    And, yet again, trurl nails it.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  17. #67
    Tribesman sonic's Avatar
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    If famous people are watching this board ... does that mean we are famous?

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncan Glenday View Post
    You'd be amazed by how many top-level artists read the forum regularly - usually as guests, but often as anonymous members. .
    are we talking about high profile members of or akin to members of the Big five (or six or whatever - you know, musicians with real history recording for major labels who play to thousands of fans at concerts)-type caliber musicians or people who like put a record out on something like Prog Rock Records that know one has really heard of except half a dozen PE members?

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonic View Post
    If famous people are watching this board ... does that mean we are famous?
    nope. When you go to a concert, the band is watching you and that doesn't make you famous.

  20. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by 80s were ok View Post
    nope. When you go to a concert, the band is watching you and that doesn't make you famous.
    SOB all that wasted money and time...

  21. #71
    Member Yodelgoat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    Honestly?


    I'd suggest PMs and temporary bans for folks that get out of hand. And for those that "cross the line," actual permanent bans (i.e. not a ban where you just sign up again under a different name).

    .
    But you have to admit,sometimes that rude banter/line crossing can be damned good reading... Poor Blue Vino. The wit and outright gall of some of our posters here is epic.

    As an artist, who isnt even close to famous, I dont come here for promo, I come for info and enjoyment. I didnt mind when people shat on my stuff (very rarely even mentioned) But what do I know? I'm a frackin Goat!

  22. #72
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yodelgoat View Post
    But you have to admit,sometimes that rude banter/line crossing can be damned good reading... Poor Blue Vino. The wit and outright gall of some of our posters here is epic.
    The ocassional flame-war can be damn funny, as long as it's only ocassional. It's those 2 or 3 posters who are like that every post who get on your nerves.
    Ian

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  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yodelgoat View Post
    But you have to admit,sometimes that rude banter/line crossing can be damned good reading... Poor Blue Vino.
    conflict is always entertaining. Think of your favorite movies or TV shows...I'm sure there is an element of conflict between characters. Without it, it is very very boring.
    Last edited by 80s were ok; 02-28-2013 at 10:04 AM.

  24. #74
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    I'll be the voice of dissent.

    Among some of my friends, this place is known as "The Hateful Forum"

    I think that there is way too much mean-spirited crap on this board and there has been for years and years. It hasn't gotten worse because of the software changes behind the board, but it certainly hasn't improved because of it.

    There's always discussion about improving the tone, but you'll never improve the tone if you are not willing to toss people once in a while and let everyone know they were tossed and why.

    No one has any right to post whatever they want here. They have a right to post here as long as they follow the rules and too many know that they don't have to follow the rules and nothing will happen to them if they don't follow the rules.

    You want more 'conversation' and 'discussion' here and less snark?? Enforce the rules.

    I am sure that all the moderators are pretty tired of being the moderators. It's a tiresome, thankless job.

    But since Sean asked, I am giving my honest opinion of what is needed. I've said it before and was ignored. I expect to be ignored this time as well, but I am giving my honest opinion of the place.

    imo.
    Steve F.

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    “Remember, if it doesn't say "Cuneiform," it's not prog!” - THE Jed Levin

    Any time any one speaks to me about any musical project, the one absolute given is "it will not make big money". [tip of the hat to HK]

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  25. #75
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    I'll be the voice of dissent.

    Among some of my friends, this place is known as "The Hateful Forum"
    Wow.

    These people must not frequent too many other forums then.

    This place is an oasis among many cesspools on the Internet.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

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