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Thread: Wetton's Estate is Suing Jobson

  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by progeezer View Post
    X2! And I did see his assholiness live and in person.
    Really? Where was that? I've seen Jobson many many times, and have met him on several occasions too. Never witnessed anything even remotely a-hole about him.

  2. #27
    I feel bad for the Wetton estate and Wetton's heirs, but I remember every time I went to one of those UK reunion shows, and I went to several, that there was simply no way these shows were making any money. Maybe the Japanese tour did ok, but where I saw them, in Philly and San Francisco, there just wasn't enough of a crowd to make it seem viable and I always wondered who was losing the money. Now I know. I agree that JW should have tried to get at least some of the money up front, as he too, from all his years of experience, had to know these UK shows were costing someone a boatload to put on.

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by zeprogmeister View Post
    I wouldn't go making judgments on anything until the full facts of the case come out and things are settled. These days it seems to be easy to do a "trial by social media PR" campaign.
    👍👍

  4. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I feel bad for the Wetton estate and Wetton's heirs, but I remember every time I went to one of those UK reunion shows, and I went to several, that there was simply no way these shows were making any money. Maybe the Japanese tour did ok, but where I saw them, in Philly and San Francisco, there just wasn't enough of a crowd to make it seem viable and I always wondered who was losing the money. Now I know. I agree that JW should have tried to get at least some of the money up front, as he too, from all his years of experience, had to know these UK shows were costing someone a boatload to put on.
    I felt the same with the London shows, great to see the guys up close but crowd was not huge by any stretch. I wonder if Gary Husband got paid , looks like Donati did not.
    Does anyone know if Bruford and Holdsworths estate would get any payment from the boxed set (Ultimate)

  5. #30
    Member since March 2004 mozo-pg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I feel bad for the Wetton estate and Wetton's heirs, but I remember every time I went to one of those UK reunion shows, and I went to several, that there was simply no way these shows were making any money. Maybe the Japanese tour did ok, but where I saw them, in Philly and San Francisco, there just wasn't enough of a crowd to make it seem viable and I always wondered who was losing the money. Now I know. I agree that JW should have tried to get at least some of the money up front, as he too, from all his years of experience, had to know these UK shows were costing someone a boatload to put on.
    I was at the Montreal show. As I said, it was tremendous but this was for a very small crowd.

  6. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I feel bad for the Wetton estate and Wetton's heirs, but I remember every time I went to one of those UK reunion shows, and I went to several, that there was simply no way these shows were making any money. Maybe the Japanese tour did ok, but where I saw them, in Philly and San Francisco, there just wasn't enough of a crowd to make it seem viable and I always wondered who was losing the money. Now I know. I agree that JW should have tried to get at least some of the money up front, as he too, from all his years of experience, had to know these UK shows were costing someone a boatload to put on.
    As I thought about this situation more, that could be it. The amount of money taken in was less than planned. Basic business lesson, that's why you incorporate a company, so you're not personally liable if the company fails. In this UKZ situation, the company could have failed and there just isn't money left to pay everyone. I don't know this btw, just a guess.

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaco View Post
    Does anyone know if Bruford and Holdsworths estate would get any payment from the boxed set (Ultimate)
    They should get songwriting royalties for any pieces they wrote + mechanical royalties for their performances. I don't know if they did. There are plenty of releases where the money doesn't ever arrive where it's meant to do.

    Henry
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Roth View Post
    Geoff Downes has posted:

    "Very sad and outraged to hear this. John was the most honest and generous person you could ever hope to meet. Beyond words..."
    I'm with you guys who believe there was simply less money to go around than expected. I too saw the NYC UK show on the very last tour. There were what maybe 150 people at most at $70 per ticket, plus drinks and some dinners. It's just not that much money.

    I'm quoting Downes because he too had the same issue, with Chris Slade, when the Payne version of Asia split. Slade seemed to think he was owed a lot of money for recording and touring but Geoff was very clear that they simply made no money on those tours (and I believe him!).

  9. #34
    Here is a slightly expanded statement from Jobson from his Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/EJ.UK.fanpage:

    “I have always prided myself on being honest and ethical in both my personal life and business practices, I have treated everyone as fairly and generously as possible throughout my life and career. So I am shocked, saddened and outraged that John Wetton’s managers have stooped so low as to engage in an undeserved character assassination and a dishonest misrepresentation regarding my treatment of John. Nothing could be further from the truth, as they present it. However, I am actually relieved that these specious claims have been asserted in the form of a detailed lawsuit so that the courts can determine the erroneousness of their assertions and throw out the entire case. I will say more about this outrage when the case is resolved.”
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  10. #35
    Member chescorph's Avatar
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    I guess Jobson won’t be getting any consideration as a replacement keyboardist in any group after this despicable behavior (if true).

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by chescorph View Post
    I guess Jobson won’t be getting any consideration as a replacement keyboardist in any group after this despicable behavior (if true).
    My first thought on hearing about this is that John Wetton's estate must be worth at least 8 times the net worth of Eddie Jobson. I felt it a bit odd to hear about this. It seems John was a nice guy and I wonder what he himself would be saying right now. John was often writing spiritual lyrics, and to think he would sue a guy who didn't make any money on a mutual project, who is financially worth about 1/8th of what Wetton is worth, well, maybe that's what some have come to, but not sure everyone even if owed contractually would sue knowing the state of the music business for progressive artists.

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by regenerativemusic View Post
    My first thought on hearing about this is that John Wetton's estate must be worth at least 8 times the net worth of Eddie Jobson.
    That was my thought as well. Estates in general are only about collecting money off of their heir. They're not in the business of fan pleasing and doing stuff just because it's fun. So sure, rake Jobson over the coals in public and good thing John isn't around to see it. Nice.

  13. #38
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    Hi everyone,

    The Eddie Jobson being described in the lawsuit is so different from the Eddie I know. He has been nothing but generous and kind to me. I've been sharing the following story today: I produced the first fan-made tribute album to Eddie ("Theme of Appreciation: A Worldwide Tribute to Eddie Jobson"). I made 500 physical CD copies of the album at my own expense. Eddie carried it in the Globe Music online store and sent me checks in which he paid me every penny of the sales on his website. Along with the other sales of the album, this helped me to recoup the expense of making the CDs.

    We need the court to do its work on this case. I know I am not alone in hoping for a swift and fair resolution.

    Much love to Eddie and John and all of their loved ones as well as my fellow fans,
    Ben

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by chescorph View Post
    I guess Jobson won’t be getting any consideration as a replacement keyboardist in any group after this despicable behavior (if true).
    Jobson has retired from live performance and seems primarily interested in solo work. So I don't think that's an issue.

    Henry
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  15. #40
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrw View Post
    Sad if true
    Quote Originally Posted by zeprogmeister View Post
    I wouldn't go making judgments on anything until the full facts of the case come out and things are settled. These days it seems to be easy to do a "trial by social media PR" campaign.
    Good point, but there is rarely no smoke without a fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by roylayer View Post
    A lot more information is posted on John Wetton's Official Website: http://www.johnwetton.com/ .

    "The cause of the lawsuit is fees/royalties/earnings which remain unpaid to John Wetton, during and after his lifetime, for the following:

    1. UK Farewell Tour Dates in 2015
    2. UK Farewell Tour Dates merchandise income
    3. Four Decades box set
    4. Curtain Call box set
    5. UK Ultimate Collector’s Edition box set
    6. UK Record Store Day 2018 vinyl"

    There is much more detail on the Wetton website. (I am deleting my earlier post that had the full text copied from from Facebook. This way, we can see the official text from the website without any chance of error.)
    TBH, given that the impossibility of some money having been paid beforehand, I'd have a hard time figuring how the last four lines claimed can make climb the figures for up to 45K being asked.
    (I mean, how much profit is made from selling a t-shirt, given the casts of carrying around the boxes across the planet along with the concert gear, and how many did they sell a gig?)
    Maybe even the bad guys would be JW's lawyers screwing in the butt EJ's , right from the beginning of the project, for all we know.


    Quote Originally Posted by strawberrybrick View Post
    It's a shame this happens. Cash up front, brother, cash in hand...
    Not possible anymore for many reasons, especially traceability. (and I'm sure there was money put forward at the start >> this is probably about what's left unpaid or over-claiming)
    You'd have to read what kind of agreement they signed beforehand

    Quote Originally Posted by Sturgeon's Lawyer View Post
    I've always had the feeling that Jobson, talented as he is, is a bit of an ahole. Sorry to have my impression confirmed this way.
    Never thought he was talented either.

    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    Pretty straight forward "Eddie - did you pay John? Please show me the receipts"
    It should be that simple, but greedy lawyers are involved and they smell a source of cash to be looted & pillaged (despite the bankruptcy)

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve983 View Post
    Oh dear, only the lawyers will win.
    No matter what, they're always the winners (often the only winners)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Roth View Post
    Geoff Downes has posted:

    "Very sad and outraged to hear this. John was the most honest and generous person you could ever hope to meet. Beyond words..."
    Is GD doing a favour to JW by siding on his side?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I feel bad for the Wetton estate and Wetton's heirs, but I remember every time I went to one of those UK reunion shows, and I went to several, that there was simply no way these shows were making any money. Maybe the Japanese tour did ok, but where I saw them, in Philly and San Francisco, there just wasn't enough of a crowd to make it seem viable and I always wondered who was losing the money. Now I know. I agree that JW should have tried to get at least some of the money up front, as he too, from all his years of experience, had to know these UK shows were costing someone a boatload to put on.
    Yup, from JW's experience, he could've been a bit light-thinking diving in headfirst in this endeavour in view of the amounts promised (though I'm sure his estate is overdoing what's owned to him >> ask 45K to get 20K)
    I also have doubts that JW received zero from this venture

    Quote Originally Posted by arturs View Post
    I'm quoting Downes because he too had the same issue, with Chris Slade, when the Payne version of Asia split. Slade seemed to think he was owed a lot of money for recording and touring but Geoff was very clear that they simply made no money on those tours (and I believe him!).
    I can still see Asia-related projects still making some kind of money (but not millions, IMHO), but a UK-project seems unlikely to break even, to the point that I wouldn't have even started it. Especially if just the bassist/singer was to get 45K$ out of it from the unlikely profits
    So I can understand somehow the filing of bankruptcy (didn't say I agreed or approved).
    Business ventures (including musical ones) often end up in financial disaster.

    Quote Originally Posted by regenerativemusic View Post
    My first thought on hearing about this is that John Wetton's estate must be worth at least 8 times the net worth of Eddie Jobson. I felt it a bit odd to hear about this. It seems John was a nice guy and I wonder what he himself would be saying right now. John was often writing spiritual lyrics, and to think he would sue a guy who didn't make any money on a mutual project, who is financially worth about 1/8th of what Wetton is worth, well, maybe that's what some have come to, but not sure everyone even if owed contractually would sue knowing the state of the music business for progressive artists.
    Well, I'm sure that lawyers were consulted before embarking on such a vast but so-risky musical adventure.
    If not, that's fairly amateur from both old veteran as those two.
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  16. #41
    (aka timmybass69) timmy's Avatar
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    I preordered the U.K. boxed set + music transcriptions (song)book a few years back. The price was ~$120'ish, I think... I can't recall the exact amount I paid but it was roughly a 1/3 more than the boxed set alone. Well, the boxed set arrived, and it is great. When I inquired about the missing music book I was told that would be forthcoming. Ok, cool. I don;t mind waiting at all. It was eventually resolved that there would be no music book, I forget the reasons at this point, and I am still OK with paying 1/3 more for the preorder boxed set. Jobson offered to refund the money but I declined. I wasn't going to miss the ~$40 bucks. I knew he (his company) needed it more than I did due to all of the manufacturing issues he was experiencing at the time. I read the excuses that seemed to being piling up regarding finishing the other higher priced promised items for the different levels, the improv pieces, etc. Then he had an accident after all of this. Blah, blah.

    Why am I sharing this?

    Because when you make an agreement with someone, when you promise to do something in exchange for payment, when you make the contract, and then the party to deliver chooses to renegotiate the deal without the buyer's consent after the deal has been signed, it draw into question the character, honesty, and responsibility of the seller party reneging on their agreement. Jobson did offer to refund the money but the failure to satisfy the promised work in the agreement is the delta to which reservation begins to mount.

    Like I said, I don't really care either way. The boxed set is great. I will not miss the songbook at all. I don't need the $40.

    The moral of the story:
    If you can't deliver 100% then don't promise at all. If you cannot afford it then learn to live without it. Period.

    EDIT: I do not think Eddie Jobson is a 'bad' guy at all. I think he bit off way more than he could chew. He should have hired people to manage his company rather than try to be a one-man operation doing every single task by himself. (as someone who has owned a business, currently a partner in a few companies, this is just suicidal at best)
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  17. #42
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmy View Post
    EDIT: I do not think Eddie Jobson is a 'bad' guy at all. I think he bit off way more than he could chew. He should have hired people to manage his company rather than try to be a one-man operation doing every single task by himself. (as someone who has owned a business, currently a partner in a few companies, this is just suicidal at best)
    Especially if you are a perfectionist and have little pragmatism, terrific in an artist, less so in a business responsible for supplying products.
    Ian

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  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by progeezer View Post
    X2! And I did see his assholiness live and in person.
    So did I: on the UK tour supporting Jethro Tull, and the following year as a "featured" member of Tull.
    Ring the bells, that still can ring,
    Forget your perfect offering.
    There is a crack - a crack in everything.
    That's how the light gets in.

  19. #44
    Of course, what a musician is like on stage, or with fans, is not necessarily what they're like in business dealings.

    And, of course, Tolstoy's point applies too: "Все счастливые семьи похожи друг на друга, каждая несчастливая семья несчастлива по-своему."

    Henry
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  20. #45
    For those who don't speak Russian, it's one of Tolstoy's most famous lines: "All happy families are alike, but every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way."
    Ring the bells, that still can ring,
    Forget your perfect offering.
    There is a crack - a crack in everything.
    That's how the light gets in.

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Sturgeon's Lawyer View Post
    So did I: on the UK tour supporting Jethro Tull, and the following year as a "featured" member of Tull.
    Care to elaborate? How was Eddie an a-hole opening for Tull (with UK) and then next year with Tull? I saw these tours as well and witnessed no such assholeness.

  22. #47
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    So the lawyers of one deceased musical hero is suing another musical hero and we believe the lawyers?

  23. #48
    NEARfest Officer Emeritus Nearfest2's Avatar
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    We will never know what John Wetton himself would have to say about this situation. For all we know, he and Eddie spoke about this and there was an understanding about lack of payments since the tours were not well attended. The Wetton Estate folks would likely have no knowledge of such a gentleman's agreement/conversation. They are looking at receipts and account balances.

    On a personal note, we had no issues working with Eddie for his NEARfest performances. He was upfront, professional and friendly, if a bit reserved. He attended the after-parties at the hotel, had a beverage or two and mingled with the folks that were there.

    No matter the facts, it's sad to see happen.
    Chad

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nearfest2 View Post
    We will never know what John Wetton himself would have to say about this situation. For all we know, he and Eddie spoke about this and there was an understanding about lack of payments since the tours were not well attended. The Wetton Estate folks would likely have no knowledge of such a gentleman's agreement/conversation. They are looking at receipts and account balances.
    .
    All we do know is what his widow has said - and it appears he was at least aware of these financial issues:

    ”This was happening during John’s cancer diagnosis. We chose to focus on staying positive during chemo treatment because it was important that he stay stress free."

    One would hope that if there were some sort of gentlemen’s agreement that she was aware of, she would explain this to the executors of his estate.
    Last edited by Dan Roth; 1 Week Ago at 03:01 PM.

  25. #50
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    Guitarist Alex Macachek chimed in:

    Usually I don't talk about any business dealings in public but I feel I have to make an exception in this case. I have been working with Eddie since 2007 and he ALWAYS paid me. And besides paying me he often went the extra mile and got me upgrades on flights, treated me to dinner/drinks and arranged great accommodations on tour. (none of which are to be taken for granted) Honestly, any form of character assassination is wildly inappropriate and way out of line when it comes to Eddie Jobson.

    And tech Andre Cholmondeley:

    Andre here, have worked for Eddie since the very first return to live music for UKZ, Jan 2009 Town Hall NYC.

    I was production manager on that show and then various roles, keys tech, bass tech, TM for most of the following decade. Gigs on three continents. I love and respect both John and Eddie and was treated wonderfully by both.

    I concur with my friend Alex Machacek, who of course I have traveled many miles with in all these Eddie Jobson projects:

    I’ve always been paid in full; have always had fair business dealings with Eddie.

    I’m saddened that any disagreement has resulted in this very public and ugly situation.

    In this era of social media, people seizing on headlines and incomplete stories are unfortunately the norm.

    My sincere hope is that any issues can be worked out without further involvement of the courts. The real ones and the internet ones.

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