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Thread: 1978 - is it the worst year in seventies progressive rock?

  1. #1

    1978 - is it the worst year in seventies progressive rock?

    My personal contention is that 1978 was the end of seventies progressive rock as we knew it. Or at least a clear sign that the original classic progressive rock scene would be forever changed. Much like the dow jones (which is only 30 stocks) measures the overall health of the stock market (out of tens of thousands of stocks) the top prog rock bands of the seventies (yes, genesis, crimson, elp, floyd, camel, moodies, tull etc....) represented the overall health of the prog rock music scene.
    Please note this is from a north american perspective (widespread releases, touring, FM radio, older brother's collections...)

    I look to these bands and what happened from 77 - 78. The drop off from album to album is astounding. Some of these bands either broke up, or tried to reinvent themselves, or changed members but whatever happened, things would never be the same. I thought about 1979 but out of the major 5 bands only pink floyd put out an album (albeit what a classic it turned out to be!) but because of a relatviely nominal output of prog in 1979 (at least in comparison to 1978) I can't single out this year more than the previous year.

    I'm not saying there were no good prog rock albums that year, but with disco, punk, new wave, the corporatization of radio and touring, 1978 screams "the end is near".
    Check out my radio show at mixcloud.com/magmashark (50 years of prog in 50 weeks) as I feature music from each consecutive year (as well as current releases, favorites, rare and fun oddities, interviews etc) to hear the evolution of what we, the prog rock listening public were hearing.

    Any thoughts? I am curious if those of us who grew up with this music have a different perspective than those who discovered prog rock later and looking back in hindsight might hear and see things differently?

  2. #2
    Member Kcrimso's Avatar
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    I don't know... my personal top 10 of 1978 look pretty pretty good to me

    1. National Health: Of Queues and Cures
    2. Magma: Attahk
    3. Bruford: Feels Good to Me
    4. Mike Oldfield: Incantations
    5. National Health: s/t
    6. Peter Hammill: The Future Now
    7. U.K.: s/t
    8. Gilgamesh: Another Fine Tune You've Got Me Into
    9. Steve Hillage: Green
    10. Bubu: Anabelas
    "A waste of talent and electricity." John Peel on ELP

  3. #3
    Progga mogrooves's Avatar
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    and...

    Henry Cow - Western Culture
    Art Bears - Hopes and Fears

    But, yeah, the classic era was ending.
    Michael: "Harold, don't you have any other music, you know, from [last] century?"
    Harold: "There is no other music....."

  4. #4
    Member Kcrimso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mogrooves View Post
    and...

    Henry Cow - Western Culture
    Art Bears - Hopes and Fears

    But, yeah, the classic era was ending.
    Isn't Western Culture from 1979?
    "A waste of talent and electricity." John Peel on ELP

  5. #5
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    it depends on how one views progressive Rock music. If you are just looking at the top selling acts with pop appeal then 78 was the end
    but if you're looking at the artists creating deeper, more challenging progressive Rock music one might say that 78 was a rebirth!
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  6. #6
    Progga mogrooves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kcrimso View Post
    Isn't Western Culture from 1979?
    It seems it was. I'm old.
    Michael: "Harold, don't you have any other music, you know, from [last] century?"
    Harold: "There is no other music....."

  7. #7
    Member dgtlman's Avatar
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    I'd say more like the beginning of the change.

  8. #8
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    for instance, from 1978 to 1982 there were many new progressive Rock artists all around the world creating some excellent albums!
    here are some 'new in 78' (artists that only emerged within the previous couple of years)

    Happy the Man Crafty Hands
    Aquarelle Sous un Arbre (aka Aquarelle)
    F.M. Direct To Disk (aka Headroom)
    Shylock Ile De Fievre
    Visitor 2035 Visitor 2035
    Atila Reviure
    Autumn Oceanworld
    Bubu Anabelas
    Dixie Dregs What If
    Gotic Escenes
    Hoenig, Michael Departure From The Northern Wasteland
    Oldfield, Mike Incantations
    Weidorje Weidorje (perhaps you could call them a spinoff)
    Ardley, Neil Harmony of the Spheres
    Caldera Time and Chance
    Gilgamesh Another Fine Tune You've Got Me Into (I guess the individuals in this group had been around)
    Gladas Kapell (Apetrea, Nilsson, Sundell,Wadenius) De Gladas Kapell Spelar Nilsson
    Hersey, Baird and the Year of the Ear Lookin' for that Groove
    Ibio Cuevas de Altamira
    Iman Califato Independiente Iman Califato Independiente
    Matrix (3) Wizard
    Prazsky Vyber Zizen
    Spheroe Primadonna
    Baricentro, Il Trusciant
    Bella Band Bella Band
    Boulé, Christian Photo Musik
    Breant, Francois Sons Optiques
    Brett, Paul Interlife
    Cai Mas Alla de Nuestras Mentes Diminutas
    Clearlight Visions
    Coincidence Coincidence
    Edition Speciale Horizon Digital
    Floyd Hunchback Group Floyd Hunchback Group
    Gotic Gegants I Serpintines
    Granada Valle del Pas
    Group, The The Group (yeah, these individual musicians had been around)
    Guadalquivir Guadalquivir
    Gustavson's Alone Together Orchestra, Jukka Jaloa Ylpeyttä yletän, Ylevää Nöyryyttä nousen
    Henry Cow Western Culture
    Léveillée, Claude Black Sun
    Manzanera, Phil K-Scope (ok, he had been around)
    Mock, Don Mock One
    Musica Urbana Iberia
    N.H.U., Grupo Grupo N.H.U.
    Nadavati Le Vent de l'Esprit Souffle oł il Veut
    Ocarinah Premiere Vision de l'Etrange
    Potemkine Nicolas II
    Sancious, David True Stories
    SBB SBB (aka Slovenian Girls; Wolanie o brzek szkla)
    Schicke, Fuhrs & Frohling Ticket To Everywhere
    Sintesis En Busca de una Nueva Flor
    Solstice Mirage
    Space Circus Funky Caravan
    Subramaniam, L. Garland
    Tako Tako
    WLUD Carrycroch
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  9. #9
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    What was particularly great about it was that things had kinda moved along as time passed, so that -progressive- rock was now way more advanced than earlier and consequently was being delivered by other artists who didn't have to bother with commercial aspirations but were solely dedicated to the artistic and musical aspect. That's one of the fantastic things about further development.
    indeed... just because the prog artists with pop appeal from the early 70s were artistically spent didn't mean that great progressive Rock music was no longer being made
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kcrimso View Post
    I don't know... my personal top 10 of 1978 look pretty pretty good to me

    1. National Health: Of Queues and Cures
    2. Magma: Attahk
    3. Bruford: Feels Good to Me
    4. Mike Oldfield: Incantations
    5. National Health: s/t
    6. Peter Hammill: The Future Now
    7. U.K.: s/t
    8. Gilgamesh: Another Fine Tune You've Got Me Into
    9. Steve Hillage: Green
    10. Bubu: Anabelas
    Quote Originally Posted by mogrooves View Post
    and...

    Henry Cow - Western Culture
    Art Bears - Hopes and Fears
    Several of these releases were better, more musically interesting and far more challenging than anything that came before them. But alas - and jolly ho! - one has to actually know about them to appreciate that.

    Others:

    Mia - Cornonstipicum
    Happy the Man - Crafty Hands
    The Muffins - Manna/Mirage
    Gotic - Escenes
    Shylock - Ile de Fievre
    Weļdorje - Weļdorje
    Cathedral - Stained Glass Stories
    Het Pandorra Ensemble - III
    Crack - Si Todo Hiciera Crack
    Banco del Mutuo Soccorso - ...di Terra
    Atila - Reviure
    Stern Meissen - Weisses Gold
    Iman Califato Indipendiente - I.C.I.
    Mauro Pagani - Mauro Pagani
    Modry Éfekt - Svet Hledacu
    Cai - Mas Alla de Nuestras Mentes Diminutas
    Hinn Izlenski Thursaflokkur - Hinn Izlenski Thursaflokkur
    Potemkine - Nicolas II

    And some ca. 80-90 other releases from all around the fucking world and in all languages which made that year an absolutely wonderful thing. What was particularly great about it was that things had kinda moved along as time passed, so that -progressive- rock was now way more advanced than earlier and consequently was being delivered by other artists who didn't have to bother with commercial aspirations but were solely dedicated to the artistic and musical aspect. That's one of the fantastic things about further development.

    Of course, absolutely all of these points were rendered obsolete when someone stuffed a potato down their throat, attached a flowerpot to the top of their skull, donned a bit of facepaint and farted out their Gabrielgaladriel routine with the inkredipel Into the Rectal Spectrum of the Lost Nost-Ril of the Minstrel Jester. That one was so good, 'cause it reminded me of something I already knew. It surely wasn't plagiarism or anything, 'cause they had their own songs and everything, but the jester fart-dance alluded to something so symbolically allegorical and (probably) intellectual that I simply can not explain it whatsoever. And when listeners laughed and tried to ridicule it, it was only because they were envious at its immense complexity. Yee-haw.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kcrimso View Post
    I don't know... my personal top 10 of 1978 look pretty pretty good to me

    1. National Health: Of Queues and Cures
    2. Magma: Attahk
    3. Bruford: Feels Good to Me
    4. Mike Oldfield: Incantations
    5. National Health: s/t
    6. Peter Hammill: The Future Now
    7. U.K.: s/t
    8. Gilgamesh: Another Fine Tune You've Got Me Into
    9. Steve Hillage: Green
    10. Bubu: Anabelas
    Your list looks pretty good to me as well ... I will be playing 3 of those bands on my show.

  12. #12
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    But...but...TOR-mah-toe!! <sob> <sniff> <wail> OH GOD WHAT HAS HAPPENED???!!!
    "If you want to see the true nature of humanity, just look at the internet."

    http://www.discogs.com/user/moecurlythanu/collection

  13. #13
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    attached a flowerpot to the top of their skull,
    You leave Devo out of this, dammit!
    "If you want to see the true nature of humanity, just look at the internet."

    http://www.discogs.com/user/moecurlythanu/collection

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    You leave Devo out of this, dammit!
    I was speaking of the jumpin' Jester fart-dance here! Those Devo devils weren't seriously artistic enough.

    Gosh, 1978 was such a better year than 1972, I mean, I feel it and see it and greet it and you just can't beat it and I got my heat lit by a street clit's meat tit.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    for instance, from 1978 to 1982 there were many new progressive Rock artists all around the world creating some excellent albums!
    here are some 'new in 78' (artists that only emerged within the previous couple of years)

    Happy the Man Crafty Hands
    Aquarelle Sous un Arbre (aka Aquarelle)
    F.M. Direct To Disk (aka Headroom)
    Shylock Ile De Fievre
    Visitor 2035 Visitor 2035
    Atila Reviure
    Autumn Oceanworld
    Bubu Anabelas
    Dixie Dregs What If
    Gotic Escenes
    Hoenig, Michael Departure From The Northern Wasteland
    Oldfield, Mike Incantations
    Weidorje Weidorje (perhaps you could call them a spinoff)
    Ardley, Neil Harmony of the Spheres
    Caldera Time and Chance
    Gilgamesh Another Fine Tune You've Got Me Into (I guess the individuals in this group had been around)
    Gladas Kapell (Apetrea, Nilsson, Sundell,Wadenius) De Gladas Kapell Spelar Nilsson
    Hersey, Baird and the Year of the Ear Lookin' for that Groove
    Ibio Cuevas de Altamira
    Iman Califato Independiente Iman Califato Independiente
    Matrix (3) Wizard
    Prazsky Vyber Zizen
    Spheroe Primadonna
    Baricentro, Il Trusciant
    Bella Band Bella Band
    Boulé, Christian Photo Musik
    Breant, Francois Sons Optiques
    Brett, Paul Interlife
    Cai Mas Alla de Nuestras Mentes Diminutas
    Clearlight Visions
    Coincidence Coincidence
    Edition Speciale Horizon Digital
    Floyd Hunchback Group Floyd Hunchback Group
    Gotic Gegants I Serpintines
    Granada Valle del Pas
    Group, The The Group (yeah, these individual musicians had been around)
    Guadalquivir Guadalquivir
    Gustavson's Alone Together Orchestra, Jukka Jaloa Ylpeyttä yletän, Ylevää Nöyryyttä nousen
    Henry Cow Western Culture
    Léveillée, Claude Black Sun
    Manzanera, Phil K-Scope (ok, he had been around)
    Mock, Don Mock One
    Musica Urbana Iberia
    N.H.U., Grupo Grupo N.H.U.
    Nadavati Le Vent de l'Esprit Souffle oł il Veut
    Ocarinah Premiere Vision de l'Etrange
    Potemkine Nicolas II
    Sancious, David True Stories
    SBB SBB (aka Slovenian Girls; Wolanie o brzek szkla)
    Schicke, Fuhrs & Frohling Ticket To Everywhere
    Sintesis En Busca de una Nueva Flor
    Solstice Mirage
    Space Circus Funky Caravan
    Subramaniam, L. Garland
    Tako Tako
    WLUD Carrycroch
    I don't disagree with the emergence of great progressive bands however I have to say that at that time in 1978 without the internet, without specific prog rock publications and without any radio most of the bands you mention would never be known or heard. Some on your list would be known ... happy the man, fm, david sancious, mike oldfield, and a couple of others, but realistically, your average prog rock radio listener or record buyer would never know these bands existed. I can say that in those years my friends and I were routinely making trips from Vancouver down to Seattle, and Portland (occassionally San Francisco) to shop for rare prog imports and anyone who grew up in those areas might remember those shops. But the majority of your list would not only be hard to find, but harder to even know who they were and what music they played.

    Years and years later these bands you mention on your list would be newly discovered and enjoyed and incorporated into the big picture of progressive rock. I wonder if record shopping in areas like New York or Philadelphia or Chicago would be different? I also wonder if back then there were underground prog rock radio stations heard in the larger markets many of us would not know about. But I still can't imagine walking into local import record store in the seventies and asking for the new atila or bubu or nadavati etc... at least that was my experience.

  16. #16
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    Not mentioned yet:

    Magma - Attahk
    Potemkine - Nicolas II
    Kraan - Flyday
    Michael Mantler - Movies
    Terje Rypdal - Waves
    Žursaflokkur - Hinn Islenzki Žursaflokkur
    Soft Machine - Live in Paris
    PFM - Passpartu
    Munju - Moon you
    Jon Hassel - Earthquake island
    Eberhard Weber - Silent feet
    Mauro Pagani - same
    Area - 1978 -Gli dei se vanno, etc.
    Zamla - Slagerns mystik/För äldre ny..
    Frank Zappa - Studio Tan
    Gong - Expresso II
    Eno - Music for films
    Dixie Dregs - What if
    Brand X - Masques
    Art Bears - Hopes and Fear
    Jan Hammer - Black sheep
    Guru Guru - Live

    Not bad...

  17. #17
    ^ Many of the names MT listed were significant or even sometimes huge in their respective homelands. In Argentina, for instance, artists like Spinetta and Seru Giran were bigger than Yes ever were in the UK. In Poland, SBB were a substantial name after having served for many years as backing band for that country's largest rock/pop artist bar none, Czeslaw Niemen, who himself released progressive rock works with serious success and would later have actual statues made of him. It was 1978 and the phenomenon of progressive rock was a happening thing elsewhere than Anglosaxon lands. I suppose it's essentially all about perspective, but as far as the music itself is concerned, developments were mostly occurring elsewhere. And I'd like to think of "music itself" as the important issue.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  18. #18
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    I do agree that it's difficult to compare 1978 with 1972-1975. But I don't think it was the worst year of the decade.

    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    it depends on how one views progressive Rock music. If you are just looking at the top selling acts with pop appeal then 78 was the end
    but if you're looking at the artists creating deeper, more challenging progressive Rock music one might say that 78 was a rebirth!
    Yep. I think if you're using the "big 5" as a measure, it looks pretty bleak. But 1978, for example, was just about the greatest year for progressive rock in Spain, not to mention was going on in France at the time.
    WANTED: Sig-worthy quote.

  19. #19
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    ^ Many of the names MT listed were significant or even sometimes huge in their respective homelands. In Argentina, for instance, artists like Spinetta and Seru Giran were bigger than Yes ever were in the UK. In Poland, SBB were a substantial name after having served for many years as backing band for that country's largest rock/pop artist bar none, Czeslaw Niemen, who himself released progressive rock works with serious success and would later have actual statues made of him. It was 1978 and the phenomenon of progressive rock was a happening thing elsewhere than Anglosaxon lands. I suppose it's essentially all about perspective, but as far as the music itself is concerned, developments were mostly occurring elsewhere. And I'd like to think of "music itself" as the important issue.
    of course, you and I and a bunch of others have never considered progressive Rock music to be Brit-centric anyway. It has been a worldwide thing since the late 60s
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  20. #20
    Howdy Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    There's always more interesting music out there than somebody could ever hope to hear about, afford to buy, or find time to listen to.

  21. #21
    So basically prog rock kinda went underground. Which doesn’t seem so bad to me. New acts emerged from their studios and rehearsal spaces and garages and flats. Bands that had been around but were deemed too odd for the mainstream actually had a chance to be heard, or at least not be quite as marginalized in the progressive rock community as they were by the old guard. I mean that is what progress is supposed to mean, I think. If progressive rock had to rely on the big names continuing careers in order to persevere, it would have died.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    ^ Many of the names MT listed were significant or even sometimes huge in their respective homelands. In Argentina, for instance, artists like Spinetta and Seru Giran were bigger than Yes ever were in the UK. In Poland, SBB were a substantial name after having served for many years as backing band for that country's largest rock/pop artist bar none, Czeslaw Niemen, who himself released progressive rock works with serious success and would later have actual statues made of him. It was 1978 and the phenomenon of progressive rock was a happening thing elsewhere than Anglosaxon lands. I suppose it's essentially all about perspective, but as far as the music itself is concerned, developments were mostly occurring elsewhere. And I'd like to think of "music itself" as the important issue.
    I enjoy your posts (as well as MT and others) but I think my idea for the post somehow got corrupted really fast. I wanted my original post to be about 1978 at the time, not in retrospect.

    A question for scrotum scissor and mysterious traveller - in the year 1978 which of the bands you mention on your lists did you walk into the local record store and ask for and then buy? And to refresh my memory I just grabbed some of my old rock magazines from 1978 and checked the back pages where you could buy imports from overseas and I do not see most bands on your lists. That's why I think my original post has gone so far afield. The bands quoted here - Spinetta, Seru Giran, Czeslaw Niemen I don't get how these would be known and consumed by rock audiences. Rock music simply included those bands considered prog rock mixed in, or in a special "import" section. I understand your sentiment that prog rock shouldn't be considered Britcentric or limited to anglo saxon bands, but back then I just remember that's what it was like. Thank you internet for opening the floodgates to history and opening our ears and eyes to what prog rock could really be!

    It all keeps coming back to SS's comment about "perspective". If someone in 1978 heard on the radio or saw in the record store new release pile (in Canada or the USA) and bought Modry Éfekt - Svet Hledacu or Cai - Mas Alla de Nuestras Mentes Diminutas or Hinn Izlenski Thursaflokkur - Hinn Izlenski Thursaflokkur I would love to hear that story!!
    Last edited by MagmaShark; 03-07-2019 at 06:48 PM.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by MagmaShark View Post
    A question for scrotum scissor and mysterious traveller - in the year 1978 which of the bands you mention on your lists did you walk into the local record store and ask for and then buy? And to refresh my memory I just grabbed some of my old rock magazines from 1978 and checked the back pages where you could buy imports from overseas and I do not see most bands on your lists. That's why I think my original post has gone so far afield. The bands quoted here - Spinetta, Seru Giran, Czeslaw Niemen I don't get how these would be known and consumed by rock audiences. C'mon, back in the seventies it wasn't like progressive rock was its own genre in the record stores like jazz, or opera, or blues, or classical. Rock music simply included those bands considered prog rock mixed in, or in a special "import" section. I understand your sentiment that prog rock shouldn't be considered Britcentric or limited to anglo saxon bands, but back then I just remember that's what it was like. Thank you internet for opening the floodgates to history and opening our ears and eyes to what prog rock could really be!

    It all keeps coming back to SS's comment about "perspective" and I guess mine is just different. I wanted my original post to be about 1978 at the time, not in retrospect. If someone in 1978 heard on the radio or saw in the record store new release pile and bought Modry Éfekt - Svet Hledacu or
    Cai - Mas Alla de Nuestras Mentes Diminutas or Hinn Izlenski Thursaflokkur - Hinn Izlenski Thursaflokkur I would love to hear that story!!
    So basically you’re basing your statement on commercial appeal and sales. Not very progressive. But definitely old school prog. I mean it’s isn’t about the quality of the music being worse by the old guard or the quality on offer by lesser known acts. It’s the sales.
    Last edited by Rye-Ergot; 03-07-2019 at 06:59 PM.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    But...but...TOR-mah-toe!! <sob> <sniff> <wail> OH GOD WHAT HAS HAPPENED???!!!
    Indeed, but that tour was great.

  25. #25
    Jethro Tull - Heavy Horses and Bursting Out
    Rush - Hemispheres
    Genesis - And Then There Were Three
    Frank Zappa - Zappa in New York
    U.K. - U.K.
    Dixie Dregs - What If
    David Gilmour - S/T
    Peter Gabriel - Scratch
    The Moody Blues - Octave
    Klaus Schulze - X
    "And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision."

    Occasional musical musings on https://darkelffile.blogspot.com/

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