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Thread: Warning: Crappy CDRs from Amazon

  1. #1
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    Warning: Crappy CDRs from Amazon

    I've had a couple of experiences with this so I'm posting as a heads up. I was very happy Amazon had T. Kriget's Efter Efter. Our favorite prog shops seem to have all sold out. I was expecting a beautiful digipak like their other post-millennium discs. But no instead I got a cheap CDR with a quickie scan of the cover in a single-fold insert. I got Claire Holley's Hush like that too exactly in the same format but I didn't know any better--I mistakenly figured she must've just put 'em out that way.

    There is no mention that these are crap CDRs on the Amazon page for the disc and they do come straight from Amazon. I'm returning this one at their expense.

    EDIT: My bad. It does say, in the small print "This product is manufactured on demand when ordered from Amazon.com". But I'm still returning it!
    Last edited by arturs; 02-11-2019 at 08:42 PM.

  2. #2
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arturs View Post
    There is no mention that these are crap CDRs on the Amazon page for the disc
    Actually there is:

    When sold by Amazon.com, this product is manufactured on demand using CD-R recordable media. Amazon.com's standard return policy will apply.
    However, this warning appears in the "Editorial Reviews" panel, not just below the price, which is where I thought it usually appeared in these cases.

  3. #3
    Note: This product is manufactured on demand when ordered from Amazon.com. [Learn more]

    ^Copied from the Amazon page for Efter efter...but I agree - Amazon needs to make this disclaimer far more prominent.

    Peter

  4. #4
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    You may as well just download the MP3’s from amazon because that all they do it burn them onto a cdr and send it to you.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fracktured View Post
    You may as well just download the MP3’s from amazon because that all they do it burn them onto a cdr and send it to you.
    This is sadly true - they do not use .wav files. They use the same mp3s that they sell for downloading.
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    "You run a great label, but sometimes you go out of your way to be a jerk." - Jed Levin

    "The older I get, the more I realize that cynicism is just realism spelled wrong."

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    This is sadly true - they do not use .wav files. They use the same mp3s that they sell for downloading.
    Mere rip-off!
    Macht das ohr auf!

    COSMIC EYE RECORDS

  7. #7
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    I had the same experience about 5 or 6 years ago with a Daevid Allen CD on the Voiceprint label ordered from and sold by Amazon. I emailed Voiceprint about it and they told me Amazon did not have their permission to do this, so they were unaware Amazon was even selling it at that point (possibly Amazon still intended on paying them, I don't know).

    The guy from Voiceprint was very nice and asked me to tell him a couple of CDs he could send me.

    You might want to contact the real labels and let them know this happened, just in case Amazon doesn't have permission.

  8. #8
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    Certainly not just Amazon. Whilst not widespread, this has still been going on for some time and I find it deplorable when they are sold as normal discs with no warning.

    https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...-cd-rs.474985/

    https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...m-here.444883/

    I once ended up with a shop-bought CD-R on the BGO label (didn't notice this at the time) and sure enough, 6/7 years later it had become unplayable. I also remember seeing another second hand CD on BGO which was CD-R. I did some research and it turned out this label pressed certain discs on CD-R for a while.

  9. #9
    From my experience this is done with CDs that are out of print, so unless you want to track down a used cd this would be the only way to buy a physical copy. Also smaller indie artists can do this now as well for releases.

  10. #10
    Member Camelogue's Avatar
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    I've had a problem with one that would only play in my car but not my home CD player.

    Sessions by Rare Blend

  11. #11
    Howdy Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    This is sadly true - they do not use .wav files. They use the same mp3s that they sell for downloading.
    Do we know this for a fact?
    The one case where I've gotten one of these*, there is no download being sold.

    Edit: *I should have paid closer attention and maybe would have tried snagging a used silver CD.
    Last edited by Dave (in MA); 02-14-2019 at 12:05 PM.

  12. #12
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave (in MA) View Post
    Do we know this for a fact?
    The one case where I've gotten one of these, there is no download being sold.
    When I was presented with the idea of having out of print Cuneiform titles available for download through Amazon, buried deep in the paperwork / hype sheet / presentation was the fact that they used mp3s. They disclosed it so I am not 'guessing'. At least that was how it was presented to me 4-5 years ago and I can't imagine they've decided to go 'higher end' since that time.

    I probably was not going to do it anyway, but this sealed the deal of my not doing it....
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    "You run a great label, but sometimes you go out of your way to be a jerk." - Jed Levin

    "The older I get, the more I realize that cynicism is just realism spelled wrong."

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  13. #13
    Howdy Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Thanks, Steve.

  14. #14
    Howdy Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeprogmeister View Post
    From my experience this is done with CDs that are out of print, so unless you want to track down a used cd this would be the only way to buy a physical copy.
    I can understand why a CD might go out of print, but don't understand why the download seems to go out of print along with it.

  15. #15
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave (in MA) View Post
    I can understand why a CD might go out of print, but don't understand why the download seems to go out of print along with it.
    Rights issues. That's the only reason I can fathom.
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    "You run a great label, but sometimes you go out of your way to be a jerk." - Jed Levin

    "The older I get, the more I realize that cynicism is just realism spelled wrong."

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    This is sadly true - they do not use .wav files. They use the same mp3s that they sell for downloading.
    Are you positive about this? I got several "print on demand" albums from Amazon and now I have to look at the sound profile and try to compare it to the original. Because if it's true, then you get a lossy compressed version of the original sound and that is totally unacceptable.
    "The world will soon be right again,
    Innocence and undying love will reign."
    - Transatlantic

  17. #17
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Please read #13.

    I know it was a fact some years ago. I can not say if it is still a fact now.
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
    www.cuneiformrecords.com

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    "You run a great label, but sometimes you go out of your way to be a jerk." - Jed Levin

    "The older I get, the more I realize that cynicism is just realism spelled wrong."

    "Death to false 'support the scene' prog!"

    please add 'imo' wherever you like, to avoid offending those easily offended.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve F. View Post
    Please read #13.

    I know it was a fact some years ago. I can not say if it is still a fact now.
    Daaamn...
    Never ever (c)
    "The world will soon be right again,
    Innocence and undying love will reign."
    - Transatlantic

  19. #19
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    Just found out that Kinesis still stocks Efter Efter so I ordered a real copy from them. I sent a note to the TK official email about the Amazon CDRs but have not heard back. So I don't know if the band knows about it...

    But at least I'll give Amazon credit for their return policy. They sent a UPS guy to my house to pick up the Efter Efter CDR (the UPS visit probably cost Amazon more than the value of the CDR!) and issued a refund the next day. I am happy to have that, that thing... out of my house.

  20. #20
    Member Emeritus (A.M.P.) rcarlberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arturs View Post
    I am happy to have that, that thing... out of my house.
    That's good service from Amazon.

    Just curious though... How did it sound? In another thread somebody mentioned being told that CDs they'd ordered were sourced from the same MP3s you can download, and being disgusted with this... despite never noticing until being told. My ears are almost as old as I am, and I have to admit 320 mbps MP3s sound fine to me.

    Of course you said the cover was a crappy scan so there's that.

    But there's also the issue of longevity. CD-Rs, so long as an adhesive label isn't attached, are expected to last 100-200 years. Standard silver CDs were only rated for 50-70 years, though there's a lot of dodgy information out there about certain batches (or poor storage conditions) lasting less than 20 years.
    Last edited by rcarlberg; 02-17-2019 at 11:06 PM.

  21. #21
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    The plot thickens... I received this response from Stefan Fredin after letting them know Amazon was selling their music on CDR. Sadly, the same as Jed's experience with Voiceprint.

    Hello Arturs.
    Thanks for your message. Good to hear from you.
    Wow…are you serious? I had no clue about this!!
    This is definitely not authorized by us,
    I am very sad to hear this.
    We need to check this up.
    Please give me your adress and i will send you a real
    copy of Efter Efter.
    All the best
    Stefan/TK

  22. #22
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arturs View Post
    The plot thickens... I received this response from Stefan Fredin after letting them know Amazon was selling their music on CDR. Sadly, the same as Jed's experience with Voiceprint.

    Hello Arturs.
    Thanks for your message. Good to hear from you.
    Wow…are you serious? I had no clue about this!!
    This is definitely not authorized by us,
    I am very sad to hear this.
    We need to check this up.
    Please give me your adress and i will send you a real
    copy of Efter Efter.
    All the best
    Stefan/TK
    Hey Ken Golden or Steve F., as someone who produces CDs that are sold on Amazon, how do you go about contacting Amazon when you want them to sell your releases? Or is that done only by some larger distributor? I'm wondering how one of these labels, where Amazon is selling CD-Rs without their permission, would contact someone at the Amazon conglomerate.

  23. #23
    Member LASERCD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    Hey Ken Golden or Steve F., as someone who produces CDs that are sold on Amazon, how do you go about contacting Amazon when you want them to sell your releases? Or is that done only by some larger distributor? I'm wondering how one of these labels, where Amazon is selling CD-Rs without their permission, would contact someone at the Amazon conglomerate.
    It's handled by our distributor. We don't deal directly with Amazon (otherwise I wouldn't need a distributor).

    I'm not saying its not possible because its obviously happening, so here is my guess about Trettioariga Kriget's release on Mellotronen. I would assume that Mellotronen has a deal in place with a distributor in Sweden. That distributor has given Amazon authority to manufacture on demand. Perhaps the distributor has a deal with Amazon in Europe and MOD has somehow spilled over to the US. As far as I know there is no physical product distribution deal in place for Mellotron in North America.

  24. #24
    I don't mind a CD-R as long as they tell you that up front, but burning them from lossy MP3s is unacceptable! Never knew that they did that before. :-(
    Amazon Marketplace - http://www.amazon.com/shops/A3UJ306B3ZDWF4
    Many hard to find CDs (mostly prog)

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