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Thread: Thjis Van Leer on the current state of progressive rock

  1. #1

    Thjis Van Leer on the current state of progressive rock

    Another traitor to the cause of the Prog?

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lou...of-todays-prog

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    He has a point whether you agree with him or not.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Fracktured View Post
    He has a point whether you agree with him or not.
    Oh, I do agree. Big.

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    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    MeToo

    Except that Zappas wasn't the only one - e.g. Henry Cow and a few others.

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    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    That was an in-depth analysis. It will take me some time to chew on this. Probably weeks.

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    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    That was an in-depth analysis. It will take me some time to chew on this. Probably weeks.
    Horrible article excerpt, falling prey to the sensational and clickbait tactics of so much of today’s attention seeking digital media. Three times in that short statement, Van Leer “rips”, “lambasts”, and “outbursts” to simply say that Zappa is the one true progressive artist in his opinion.
    WANTED: Sig-worthy quote.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    That was an in-depth analysis. It will take me some time to chew on this. Probably weeks.
    We'll do the analysis Moe. We know things.

    But first we must find this Van Leer fellow. And punish him.

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    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    That was an in-depth analysis. It will take me some time to chew on this. Probably weeks.
    Yeah, like was he saying Focus was never progressive rock, or was but isn't now?

    Personally, while I'll sometimes question it when something's posted on the main board here that seems to have no relation to anyone's idea of prog, I'm pretty tired of people discussing whether bands some people consider prog are prog, especially when the discussion seems to insist that "avant prog" is the only music that was ever prog.

    It just makes for boring posts, IMO.

    BTW, I have video of This Van Leer on CTTE 2017 appearing to enjoy the Neal Morse Band's performance. Of course maybe he was just being polite (I wasn't enjoying it that much myself).

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    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zappathustra View Post

    But first we must find this Van Leer fellow. And punish him.
    Van Leer. Sounds like voyeuristic transportation to me.
    "If you want to see the true nature of humanity, just look at the internet."

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    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    This also makes me wonder how different Focus 11 is from the band's previous albums? Have they progressed to a whole new sound?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    Horrible article excerpt, falling prey to the sensational and clickbait tactics of so much of today’s attention seeking digital media. Three times in that short statement, Van Leer “rips”, “lambasts”, and “outbursts” to simply say that Zappa is the one true progressive artist in his opinion.
    The article is completely devoid of in depth argumentation. Maybe the magazine interview - which I couldn't find - provides more of this.

    But there is a point there worthy of discussion imo. Particularly because it is coming from a very influential and important figure of progressive rock music.

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    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    Sure. I don’t want you to confuse my opinion of the writing with the value of the point behind it or that you started a thread about it.
    WANTED: Sig-worthy quote.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    Sure. I don’t want you to confuse my opinion of the writing with the value of the point behind it or that you started a thread about it.
    No, I don't.

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    I dunno… Just because the people who opened up the prog box were born earlier than others, does not necessarily mean they were superior artists or more pure. They still borrowed from other artists (classical in some cases). Being born before someone else, does not automatically make you the creative genius and those who come aboard later just stooges. Derivative? Its ALL DIRIVATIVE. there are only 12 notes. (Unless you don't play a tuned instrument)


    Thjis, it seems to me, is put off with new prog. I wonder if it is because he observes musicians lurking on his perceived lawn. Which is actually an open field, with some well worn trails, but plenty of space for new footpaths, and occasionally, the ground can be rototilled, to allow for fresh growth and new pathways. This is just my Opinion. Why try to create anything new? Why did Focus do an 11th album? Its all someone elses work and new musicians are only using already superior ideas. Wow. Why bother to even pick up a guitar? (or flute, for that matter). It's all been done. I hope that's not really what he means.
    I got nothin'

    ...avoiding any implication that I have ever entertained a cognizant thought.

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    Member Top Cat's Avatar
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    I didn't find anything offensive or untruthful about his remark, however I don't feel Frank Zappa was Progressive, Frank was a true genius who's music deserved it's own genre, and Progressive Rock isn't one of them.
    And to me, the term Progressive Rock was invented so record stores would have a section of the store to place bands with similar trademark sounds and style..Mellotrons, Moogs, Hammond Organs, odd time meters, 15 minute songs and lyrics speaking of forest fairies, Kings and old men shouting "touch me"...
    Last edited by Top Cat; 1 Week Ago at 01:49 PM.
    Soundcloud page: Open Window, musical meanderings https://soundcloud.com/precipice

  16. #16
    Well, he clEarly never listened to Magma.
    I'm not lazy. I just work so fast I'm always done.

  17. #17
    Just for clarity's sake, I don't think Thjis says that new prog is shite, or it doesn't deserve to exist. Just that it is not progressive in his opinion.

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    Occipital Provocatee Plasmatopia's Avatar
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    Van Leer wasn't necessarily saying he didn't like any of it or that it sucked, just that most of it doesn't warrant the title. And he misses the point that probably a significant amount of what gets lumped into the progressive rock category isn't necessarily being referred to in that way by its creators. Or maybe the artists are happy to refer to their music in that way when they being interviewed by Prog magazine, but don't emphasize that point in other venues. Even the name Prog doesn't emphasize it...
    Just sitting at home rocking back and forth and jealously caressing my invisible collection of theoretical assets.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Zappathustra View Post
    Just for clarity's sake, I don't think Thjis says that new prog is shite, or it doesn't deserve to exist. Just that it is not progressive in his opinion.
    It's the old question about whether it stopped being "progressive" when it became a definable style. No doubt van Leer believes in the style itself, since that's what he plays.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bRETT View Post
    It's the old question about whether it stopped being "progressive" when it became a definable style. No doubt van Leer believes in the style itself, since that's what he plays.
    View points can definitely differ between artists, retailers and consumers.

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    Been saying that since the "prog" revival of the late '90s. None of it has been progressive in any descriptive sense of the word. It's just re-hashing stuff that was already done.

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    Man of repute progmatist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    This also makes me wonder how different Focus 11 is from the band's previous albums? Have they progressed to a whole new sound?
    Compared to previous Focus albums, 11 is far more compositional and quite sparse on the improvisation.
    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"--Dalai Lama

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    Moderator Sean's Avatar
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    Pretty ironic from a guy that just spent the last week on the fu&*ing "Prog Boat"!

  24. #24
    Moderator Sean's Avatar
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    He's right about Zappa though....

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean View Post
    He's right about Zappa though....
    "I think the only progressive rocker we ever had, who unfortunately died, was Frank Zappa, because he combined modern classical music, which he composed himself, with rock and that, to me, was progressive rock."

    Sorry to hear about Van Leer's early dementia....

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