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Thread: Thjis Van Leer on the current state of progressive rock

  1. #51
    Member Camelogue's Avatar
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    Much ado about nothing.

  2. #52
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    I didn't get through everything that Bruno posted, but I think Derek Shulman had the best take on it.

  3. #53
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    The quotes Bruno posted were interesting. Most of the artists involved saw it the same way I experienced it in the 70s. Rock music combined with Classical and Jazz and the fact that artists known then for making progressive music using Rock rhythms varied greatly in sound from one another. It's why my friends back then saw the Afro Prog artists like Mandrill and Osibisa as just part of the greater progressive scene that emerged from the late 60s
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  4. #54
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    The quotes Bruno posted were interesting. Most of the artists involved saw it the same way I experienced it in the 70s. Rock music combined with Classical and Jazz and the fact that artists known then for making progressive music using Rock rhythms varied greatly in sound from one another. It's why my friends back then saw the Afro Prog artists like Mandrill and Osibisa as just part of the greater progressive scene that emerged from the late 60s
    That's wild...I was reading those posts and thought, "LP's gonna blow a gasket!"
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  5. #55
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    they pretty much confirm what I've always said about the term "prog" and the idea that progressive Rock music was always multi-cultural and multi-national; never centered around British artists (as the Symph Weenie revisionists make it out to be)
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  6. #56
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    they pretty much confirm what I've always said about the term "prog" and the idea that progressive Rock music was always multi-cultural and multi-national; never centered around British artists (as the Symph Weenie revisionists make it out to be)
    Erm...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruno Sampaio Barbosa View Post
    All Progressive Music is; is music that uses European influences rather than American influences. You know; that's the main hallmark of Progressive Music. ... It is Rock and Roll actually from a different influence than American music. That's all it is really." - Greg Lake (Emerson, Lake & Palmer)
    Then there's what Van Leer said in post 47. (Though they don't make it a completely British thing either, and I don't know anyone who does, so fwiw.)
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  7. #57
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Btw, I agree with whoever said that what these guys think is pretty irrelevant. They didn't invent or choose the term, and if left up to them, no genres would exist, because, you know, each band is so unique that they can't possibly be put into the same category as another band.
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  8. #58
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    Btw, I agree with whoever said that what these guys think is pretty irrelevant. They didn't invent or choose the term, and if left up to them, no genres would exist, because, you know, each band is so unique that they can't possibly be put into the same category as another band.
    Yeah, that's a good point. You don't have Slaughter denying that they could be in the same genre as Ratt.

  9. #59
    Does the keyboard player wearing a cape classify a band as Progressive Rock?

  10. #60
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nodak View Post
    Does the keyboard player wearing a cape classify a band as Progressive Rock?
    Not if the keyboard player's name is Batman.
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  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    Erm...



    Then there's what Van Leer said in post 47. (Though they don't make it a completely British thing either, and I don't know anyone who does, so fwiw.)
    sure there were one or two isolated thoughts. The consensus though was congruent with my 70s experience

    should I go through and quote all those?
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  12. #62
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    sure there were one or two isolated thoughts. The consensus though was congruent with my 70s experience

    should I go through and quote all those?
    Don't bother, but they didn't state it how you usually do, so you may be seeing what you want to see.
    "If you want to see the true nature of humanity, just look at the internet."

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  13. #63
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    ok, I'll quote them
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  14. #64
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yodelgoat View Post
    Thjis, it seems to me, is put off with new prog. I wonder if it is because he observes musicians lurking on his perceived lawn. Which is actually an open field, with some well worn trails, but plenty of space for new footpaths, and occasionally, the ground can be rototilled, to allow for fresh growth and new pathways.
    But does there really have to be quite so much fertilizer?

  15. #65
    There are only two kinds of music in the world: What I like and what I don't like. Period. End of paragraph. Everything else is outside my own head and therefore not my problem. There's plenty of music, even new music, for me to enjoy. That's all that matters to me.
    No matter what anyone says, you are the decider of how you will listen to music.

  16. #66
    Definitions from now on are slim but absolutely definitive and unchangeable through perpetuity.

    Purely musical or strictly cultural assets and/or virtues aren't the main thing at all. You simply have to have played one of these:
    Hock.jpg
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  17. #67
    Member jarmsuh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Splicer View Post
    There are only two kinds of music in the world: What I like and what I don't like. Period. End of paragraph. Everything else is outside my own head and therefore not my problem. There's plenty of music, even new music, for me to enjoy. That's all that matters to me.
    You can tell that to someone who is trying to open a music store

  18. #68
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post

    Purely musical or strictly cultural assets and/or virtues aren't the main thing at all. You simply have to have played one of these:
    Hock.jpg
    The Love Boat!...Stubing booked all the best bands!
    "If you want to see the true nature of humanity, just look at the internet."

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  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    The Love Boat!
    Exactly. And as goes with Love, Forever Never Changes.

    So much pun'fun.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  20. #70
    Member Top Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Camelogue View Post
    Much ado about nothing.
    +1
    Soundcloud page: Open Window, musical meanderings https://soundcloud.com/precipice

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    This also makes me wonder how different Focus 11 is from the band's previous albums? Have they progressed to a whole new sound?
    Good point. Focus 11 is excellent but covers no new territory. Although hearing Pierre van der Linden behind the kit again is pretty cool!!!
    Prog's Not Dead

  22. #72
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    And I really like the PROG magazine cover with that Focus quote ...

    ...and then Neal Morse right underneath. Coincidence or is their anti-Morse bias showing?

    Either way it's pretty funny.

    IMG_6008.jpg
    Prog's Not Dead

  23. #73
    Member Zalmoxe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zappathustra View Post
    Another traitor to the cause of the Prog?

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lou...of-todays-prog
    Everyone's entitled to an opinion

  24. #74
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zalmoxe View Post
    Everyone's entitled to an opinion
    For which they will die.
    "If you want to see the true nature of humanity, just look at the internet."

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  25. #75
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zalmoxe View Post
    Everyone's entitled to an opinion
    ...but not their own facts, and this is where the debate starts...

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