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Thread: NYT article on The Loudness Wars

  1. #26
    Progdog ThomasKDye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yamishogun View Post
    Maybe it could have sounded better but the original is much better than the tepid remix they put out later. Ugh.
    No it isn't. The original made my ears hurt like hell and the new one was much more listenable.
    "Arf." -- Frank Zappa, "Beauty Knows No Pain" (live version)

  2. #27
    I have both the original Vapor Trails and the remixed version. The remix is a completely different album.
    I got nothin'

    ...avoiding any implication that I have ever entertained a cognizant thought.

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Yodelgoat View Post
    I have both the original Vapor Trails and the remixed version. The remix is a completely different album.
    It is, and not in a good way.

  4. #29
    Those graphs speak a 1000 words... I've been happily buying 80s/90s CDs for a while now, and a very cheap prices.
    "Always ready with the ray of sunshine"

  5. #30
    Man of repute progmatist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    that's probably part of what's behind the vinyl renaissance... vinyl always has great dynamic range cause ya cant brickwall vinyl
    A brickwalled vinyl record would really do a number on one's stylus, throwing it violently from one extreme side to the other, then back again.

    Update: to put it more succinctly, the grooves of a brickwalled record would become more like saw blades, with similar teeth.
    Last edited by progmatist; 02-11-2019 at 03:10 PM.
    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"--Dalai Lama

  6. #31
    Check out Emerson's "Three Fates" recording for an CD that is not compressed. Well done. Also I think EJ Reunion DVD is also non-compressed. If you have a decent amp these really sound good.

  7. #32
    Occipital Provocatee Plasmatopia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yamishogun View Post
    It is, and not in a good way.
    I don't find either one all that good, but I do find the remix significantly more listenable.
    Just sitting at home rocking back and forth and jealously caressing my invisible collection of theoretical assets.

  8. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by progmatist View Post
    A brickwalled vinyl record would really do a number on one's stylus, throwing it violently from one extreme side to the other, then back again.
    Does Wizzard Brew count as “brickwalled”? The production was on purpose, but people kept returning copies to the store, believing there was something wrong with it.
    Confirmed Bachelors: the dramedy hit of 1883...

  9. #34
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yamishogun View Post
    It is, and not in a good way.
    You're not arguing that the original is better, are you?
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    You're not arguing that the original is better, are you?
    By far.

  11. #36
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    ^ Maybe they need to take a third try.

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    ^ Maybe they need to take a third try.
    Hope springs eternal...

    I don't now anything about sound engineering, but I think they could have improved on the original with minor changes instead of putting out the overhauled bad remix.

  13. #38
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yamishogun View Post
    By far.
    Diff'rent strokes, and all that, but I can't conceive of how someone could think this.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    Diff'rent strokes, and all that, but I can't conceive of how someone could think this.
    The emotion has been washed out of the remix. Listen to both versions of "Secret Touch" and "Earthshine" and report back.

  15. #40
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    I have. One version, I can listen to without my ears bleeding, and the other I can't even listen to in full.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  16. #41
    They need to put out a new version of Clockwork Angels. I liked the music but is unlistenable for me due to the excessive mastering compression.

  17. #42
    Man of repute progmatist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progbear View Post
    Does Wizzard Brew count as “brickwalled”? The production was on purpose, but people kept returning copies to the store, believing there was something wrong with it.
    It sure sounds brickwalled to me. "Brickwalling" is the technical term for extreme limiting. Limiting is extreme compression with an infinite ratio. Standard compression will have a ratio from around 2:1 to 5:1, or thereabouts. Some more, some less, depending on the range of the hardware or software compressor being used.

    Here's an example of the title track on Kaipa's Children of the Sounds album. Below was recorded off the vinyl:



    Here's the same clip from the brickwalled CD:



    Here's that CD clip zoomed in:



    Imagine a record needle trying to ride through a groove closely resembling that valley. It would probably sound more like a buzz saw than actual music.
    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"--Dalai Lama

  18. #43
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    yup... no nuance at all
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  19. #44
    Member Steve F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER View Post
    that's probably part of what's behind the vinyl renaissance... vinyl always has great dynamic range cause ya cant brickwall vinyl
    Sure you can.
    Steve F.

    www.waysidemusic.com
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