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Thread: Sweden vs Norway final showdown

  1. #26
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedunno View Post
    Samla Mannas Manna!
    Exit Norway.
    I'll take modern Norwegian "prog" scene/crowd (in the larger sense of the word) over the Swedish modern scene, but why choose.

    Quote Originally Posted by Progbear View Post
    And again, Denmark gets completely ignored.
    If in the 70's prog, Denmark defended itself well, it's been +/- inexistent in prog since the millennium (and the 90's as well, FTM)

    Quote Originally Posted by thedunno View Post
    And what about poor Finland! Are they no longer part of Scandinavia anymore?

    Watch out for the hammer of the underworld.
    Alamaailman Vasarat

    I'd include Finland in there as well (I know it's not part of the geographical Scandinavia, but it's got a strong link with Sweden (see below for more)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirius View Post
    It isn't in, at least in Denmark, Norway and Sweden.
    However in English Scandinavia can sometimes refer to the Nordic countries, which includes Finland, Iceland and sometimes the Faroe Islands.
    And Greenland is not included despite it been part of the Nordic countries and an independent part of Denmark.
    So it's a more complex question than one might think.
    in terms of pure geography, Scandinavia wouldn't include Denmark either, since it's only the peninsula shared by Norway & Sweden that's concerned.

    Quote Originally Posted by AndiSexgang View Post
    Finland has never been part of Scandinavia. And it doesn't depend on who you ask. I live in Sweden. I am a Swede. Neither Swedes nor Finns consider Finland as part of Scandinavia simply because it isn't. Finland is part of what we call Norden (The Nordic countries) The Finns do not belong to the same cultural group or the same language group as the Scandinavian countries. That's like calling Belarus a Baltic State simply because it borders two of them.

    However, Finland has some great metal bands. Haven't heard any Finnish prog though.
    plenty of great Finnish prog, not only in the 70's (Haikara, Tasavallan Presidentii, Wigwan, Finnforest, etc....) , but in the 90's & 00's (Hoyry Kone, Alamaail, Manogurgeil Uzva ,etc...) as well... Not to mention their jazz great scene.

    But the same "Scandic cultural" debate can also happen with Iceland as well. Musically, one can find the same kind of musical tradition (folk music) between Iceland and Finland and the countries between them.
    Just like there are musical links that can be made between Alamaailman Vasarat and Samla Manna or Zamla.

    So yes, the Finnish language is nothing Scandinavian/Germanic) (nor is it European, FTM), but it's difficult to be in Finland and pick out the Swedish minority there on physical traits alone.
    Then you've got the Lapp/Sami people in all of those countries (except once again Denmark) and Bjork is the living proof that the Samis also got "out there" as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuhlmate View Post
    Personally I have always considered Scandinavia to include Finland (btw aprox. 10% speaks swedish, and a large number lives in Sweden), Island, Faroe Islands, Åland - I have friends in these regions.
    But you can debate this endlessly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavia
    TBH, most of the Finnish scientist colleagues that I work with in my field have got Swedish names (Holmstrom, Ahlstrand, for ex)
    Last edited by Trane; 01-10-2019 at 06:51 AM.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from heroin-addicts to crazy ones

  2. #27
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    Perhaps an approach could be: Uniqe bands in each country (nothing similar elsewhere Scandinavia), like

    Rypdal in Norway
    Supersilent in Norway
    Samla Mamma in Sweden
    Mats/Morgan in Sweden
    Pekka Pohjola in Finland
    Tassavalan in Finland
    Hinn Íslenzki Þursaflokkur in Iceland
    Burning Red Ivanhoe in Denmark
    etc.
    Last edited by Zeuhlmate; 01-10-2019 at 07:23 AM.

  3. #28
    Member Camelogue's Avatar
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    Who knew?

  4. #29
    Man of repute progmatist's Avatar
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    Speaking of poor Finland, they spent centuries ping-ponging between being owned by Sweden and Russia. Only in 1917 did they finally become their own independent nation.

    Musically speaking, not only does some of the best prog come from Scandinavia, some of my favorite classical composers are/were Nordic.
    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"--Dalai Lama

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post

    in terms of pure geography, Scandinavia wouldn't include Denmark either, since it's only the peninsula shared by Norway & Sweden that's concerned.
    Incorrect in two ways, first of all Scandinavia is not a geographical term in the sense of describing an area simply on geographical borders, it is a cultural term for three countries that all stem from one people. Secondly the heart of Scandinavia back in the middle ages was Skåne (Scandia) in the south of Sweden and Denmark, which at one time ruled Skåne. The odd thing is though that no one in Sweden uses the word Skandinavien.
    Last edited by AndiSexgang; 01-10-2019 at 08:58 PM.

  6. #31

  7. #32
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    ^ There's a blast from the past.

  8. #33
    Member Since: 3/27/2002 MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER's Avatar
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    my favorite albums (one from each artist) of all styles of progressive Rock music from Scandinavia are:

    Änglagård Hybris Swe
    Anekdoten Nucleus Swe
    Isildurs Bane Cheval - Volonte de Rocher Swe
    Pohjola, Pekka Keesojen Lehto (aka Mathematician's Air Display) Fin
    Bodin, Tomas An Ordinary Night in my Ordinary Life Swe
    Finnforest Lahto Matkalle Fin
    Hansson, Bo Sagan om Ringen (aka Lord of the Rings) Swe 1970
    Jupu Group Ahmoo! Fin 1975
    Kornet Kornet Swe 1975
    Lindh, Björn J:son Från Storstad till Grodspad Swe 1971
    Nilson, Johan Earsick Swe 1999
    Panzerpappa Pestrottedans Nor 2016
    Schaffer, Janne Janne Schaffer (aka The Chinese) Swe 1973
    Secret Oyster Sea Son Den
    Tribute New Views Swe
    Agusa Katarsis Swe
    Älgarnas Trädgård Framtiden Är Ett Svävande Skepp, Förankrat I Forntiden Swe
    All Traps on Earth A Drop of Light Swe
    Atlas Blå Vardag Swe
    Coronarias Dans Visitor Den
    Egba Egba Swe
    Flower Kings, The Retropolis Swe
    Gladas Kapell (Apetrea, Nilsson, Sundell,Wadenius) De Gladas Kapell Spelar Nilsson Swe
    Gösta Berlings Saga Sersophane Swe
    Grand General Grand General Nor
    Hellborg Group, Jonas e Swe
    Hidria Spacefolk Astronautica Fin
    Hooffoot Hooffoot Swe
    Jaga Jazzist Starfire Nor
    Johansson, Jens Fission Swe
    Kvernberg, Ola Steamdome Nor
    Ragnarök Fjärilar I Magen Swe
    Rypdal, Terje Whenever I Seem To Be Far Away Nor
    Sinkadus Cirkus Swe
    Skøtt, Jakob Taurus Rising Den
    Tolonen, Jukka Summer Games Fin
    Vinding, Mads Group Danish Design Den
    Zamla Mammaz Manna Familjesprickor Swe

    Sweden - 24 artists
    Finland - 5 artists
    Norway - 5 artists
    Denmark - 4 artists
    Why is it whenever someone mentions an artist that was clearly progressive (yet not the Symph weenie definition of Prog) do certain people feel compelled to snort "thats not Prog" like a whiny 5th grader?

  9. #34
    ^^ Hey, I don't see Mew in that list!


  10. #35
    Worthy of Laudation thedunno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    ^^ Hey, I don't see Mew in that list!

    Because Mew is a pop band? <ducking>

  11. #36
    Member hFx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndiSexgang View Post
    The odd thing is though that no one in Sweden uses the word Skandinavien.
    ...you forget the weather reports...
    My Progressive Workshop at http://soundcloud.com/hfxx

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by hFx View Post
    ...you forget the weather reports...
    Reslly? I don't listern to or watch weather reports, so I'll take your word for it. But that surprises me.

  13. #38
    Should be The Final Countdown, surely?

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by revporl View Post
    Should be The Final Countdown, surely?
    A good argument to press the nuclear-annihilation button against Sweden.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zappathustra View Post
    A good argument to press the nuclear-annihilation button against Sweden.
    https://youtu.be/eUFzzy1Qg5w?t=25
    My Progressive Workshop at http://soundcloud.com/hfxx

  16. #41
    Member chalkpie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by revporl View Post
    Should be The Final Countdown, surely?
    If it isn't Krautrock, it's krap.

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by hFx View Post
    That's an argument to obliterate the whole human species

  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    Oh lol, tell me that's done intentionally.

    That's a good one for the "I prefer the cover to the original" thread

  19. #44
    ^ Seeing as they're doing the best they can and obviously like what they're doing, it's very intentional. As is Michael Bolton, Snoop Dogg, Wynton Marsalis, Mike Portnoy, Limp Bizkit et al.
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  20. #45
    The simplest way to define Scandinavia is to think of it as a community of language. Swedish, Norwegian and Danish are all basically dialects of the same language and we all understand each other. Finland belongs to a whole different language group, finno-ugrian or something like that. And Icelandic, while descending from the same Nordic mother tongue as the Scandinavian countries, has developed (or not developed, rather) differently from the Scandinavian languages, so we no longer understand the Icelandic people. Hence the differentiation between Scandinavia and the Nordics.

  21. #46
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob Holm-Lupo View Post
    so we no longer understand the Icelandic people.
    Who does?

  22. #47
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob Holm-Lupo View Post
    The simplest way to define Scandinavia is to think of it as a community of language. Swedish, Norwegian and Danish are all basically dialects of the same language and we all understand each other. Finland belongs to a whole different language group, finno-ugrian or something like that. And Icelandic, while descending from the same Nordic mother tongue as the Scandinavian countries, has developed (or not developed, rather) differently from the Scandinavian languages, so we no longer understand the Icelandic people. Hence the differentiation between Scandinavia and the Nordics.
    Linguistic scientist consider Danish, Nowegian and Swedish as separate languages, not dialects, but yes its rather close to each other. My generation understood Swedish and Norwegian, but today alas young people speak English with each other. Danish was more distinctly spoken earlier, but now the spoken and written language is driftin apart, and the pronunciation is getting so sloppy that even I get irritated.
    Færøsk (Faeroe islandic language) is also hard to understand (for a Dane), but is basicly understood as an old Norwegian dialect.
    The Finnish language is close to Estonian, they understand each other. It's also related to Samish (nomads of scandinavia and russia) and far out related to Hungarian.

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuhlmate View Post
    My generation understood Swedish and Norwegian, but today alas young people speak English with each other. Danish was more distinctly spoken earlier, but now the spoken and written language is driftin apart, and the pronunciation is getting so sloppy that even I get irritated.
    Zeuhlmate, man; on spending a few days in Copenhagen this last summer it struck me how hopelessly, almost provocatively silly some of that imaginary lingual barrier works with younger folks in your city. Even at the hotel (where I've been staying on each visit these recent years) there were 25-30 YOs who somehow pretended not to understand basic, clearly spoken Norwegian and would rather have me address them in my fluent English - which I promptly refused to. I tried pointing out to them that Norwegians would normally actually have a harder time discerning Danish than the other way around, but as it turned out they didn't even recognize which language I adhered to in the first place; "Sorry, we don't understand Faeroian here". They were simply unable to identify my tongue. But then again it appeared as if every fifth word they used between themselves were basically borrowed from English.

    The whole ordeal was quite embarrassing, and I admit to being somewhat pissed off at the fact that it's essentially a generational issue; they are sloppy and unwilling to "take the time" to listen to what you're telling them, preferring it would seem to rather treat conversation as an arbitrary sonic in volume. When I left there I just had to express my sentiment to a taxi driver who was somehwere in his late 50s, apparently from Ålborg; he confirmed just about every suspicion I presented, complaining that it's not merely a question of lingual barriers - according to him it was a case of cultural ignorance in general. Which, if true, is mildly disconcerting.

    The beautiful gal who served me Scotch at La Fontaine was an exception, though. She was even able to perform a modest verbal transaction on music. Those jazz women...
    "Improvisation is not an excuse for musical laziness" - Fred Frith
    "[...] things that we never dreamed of doing in Crimson or in any band that I've been in," - Tony Levin speaking of SGM

  24. #49
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    Zeuhlmate, man; on spending a few days in Copenhagen this last summer it struck me how hopelessly, almost provocatively silly some of that imaginary lingual barrier works with younger folks in your city. Even at the hotel (where I've been staying on each visit these recent years) there were 25-30 YOs who somehow pretended not to understand basic, clearly spoken Norwegian and would rather have me address them in my fluent English - which I promptly refused to. I tried pointing out to them that Norwegians would normally actually have a harder time discerning Danish than the other way around, but as it turned out they didn't even recognize which language I adhered to in the first place; "Sorry, we don't understand Faeroian here". They were simply unable to identify my tongue. But then again it appeared as if every fifth word they used between themselves were basically borrowed from English.

    The whole ordeal was quite embarrassing, and I admit to being somewhat pissed off at the fact that it's essentially a generational issue; they are sloppy and unwilling to "take the time" to listen to what you're telling them, preferring it would seem to rather treat conversation as an arbitrary sonic in volume. When I left there I just had to express my sentiment to a taxi driver who was somehwere in his late 50s, apparently from Ålborg; he confirmed just about every suspicion I presented, complaining that it's not merely a question of lingual barriers - according to him it was a case of cultural ignorance in general. Which, if true, is mildly disconcerting.

    The beautiful gal who served me Scotch at La Fontaine was an exception, though. She was even able to perform a modest verbal transaction on music. Those jazz women...

    I will not excuse on the behalf of my younger countrymen. They are egocentric morons.

    My daughter (24) lives temporarily in Tromsø, and has to my relief no problems, but again, her grandmother was from Honningsvåg, the other grandmother is from Holland, married to a Swede (and she speaks a funny mix of swedish and dutch).

    Btw - perhaps there are hope: The Norwegian TV-series "Skam" might have helped on some teenagers here. It was so popular thats some in that age-group adapted certain Norwegian phrases.

  25. #50
    Member hFx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuhlmate View Post
    Btw - perhaps there are hope: The Norwegian TV-series "Skam" might have helped on some teenagers here. It was so popular thats some in that age-group adapted certain Norwegian phrases.
    True also here
    My Progressive Workshop at http://soundcloud.com/hfxx

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