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Thread: Most Offensively Stupid Prog Rock Title Ever

  1. #51
    Howdy Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
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    Aw, shucks. I don't know what to say. Well, I'd like to thank Bill Bruford, without whose words my ctrl-v would have been more along the lines of "".

  2. #52
    Orange Tick Squasher Buddhabreath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocProgger View Post
    I'm still waiting for the OP, or anyone, to explain why TRSOG, is "offensive" to them. Pretentious, possibly, depending on your world view, but not really something to wet your knickers over. Great tune also.
    Sure, happy to explain. Unless you have a very unconventional definition of "God" it has nothing to do with science. In fact the notion of an un-created eternal supreme being or creator-entity is antithetical to science being by definition a hypothesis that cannot be tested and therefore not within the realm of science or as Jay Gould put it, "non-overlapping magisteria". Personally, I don't agree with this view, but this is not the proper place to get into that (see moderators? I'm being a good boy!).

    Finally, not only does science have nothing to do with God, but God as concept or thing reveals nothing, has never contributed to the furtherance of knowledge or made any valid predictions. Quite the opposite, it has been a regressive force in civilization, society and progress from biblical genocide to the dark ages to endless persecutions, pogroms and holocausts, bigotry, oppression, corruption, sectarian violence and wars, and destructive, ignorant and anti-scientific attitudes towards vaccines and modern medicine at large, global warming, reproductive health, sexuality and free thought.

    In short, that is why I find it offensive.
    There are more stars in the visible universe than there are grains of sand on planet earth.

  3. #53
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    Martin Hall: THE ICECOLD WATERS OF THE EGOCENTRIC CALCULATION

    http://www.martinhall.com/?p=2129

  4. #54
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddhabreath View Post
    Sure, happy to explain. Unless you have a very unconventional definition of "God" it has nothing to do with science. In fact the notion of an un-created eternal supreme being or creator-entity is antithetical to science being by definition a hypothesis that cannot be tested and therefore not within the realm of science or as Jay Gould put it, "non-overlapping magisteria". Personally, I don't agree with this view, but this is not the proper place to get into that (see moderators? I'm being a good boy!).

    Finally, not only does science have nothing to do with God, but God as concept or thing reveals nothing, has never contributed to the furtherance of knowledge or made any valid predictions. Quite the opposite, it has been a regressive force in civilization, society and progress from biblical genocide to the dark ages to endless persecutions, pogroms and holocausts, bigotry, oppression, corruption, sectarian violence and wars, and destructive, ignorant and anti-scientific attitudes towards vaccines and modern medicine at large, global warming, reproductive health, sexuality and free thought.

    In short, that is why I find it offensive.
    If the track had been titled "The Revealing Shastra of God," would you have been happier with it? Maybe. I think Anderson was just trying to use English instead of Sanskrit, but of course the words don't exactly correlate.
    "Of course you are allowed to trumpet your profound ignorance by disagreeing with me." -- Facelift

  5. #55
    Occipital Provocatee Plasmatopia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddhabreath View Post
    Sure, happy to explain. Unless you have a very unconventional definition of "God" it has nothing to do with science. In fact the notion of an un-created eternal supreme being or creator-entity is antithetical to science being by definition a hypothesis that cannot be tested and therefore not within the realm of science or as Jay Gould put it, "non-overlapping magisteria". Personally, I don't agree with this view, but this is not the proper place to get into that (see moderators? I'm being a good boy!).

    Finally, not only does science have nothing to do with God, but God as concept or thing reveals nothing, has never contributed to the furtherance of knowledge or made any valid predictions. Quite the opposite, it has been a regressive force in civilization, society and progress from biblical genocide to the dark ages to endless persecutions, pogroms and holocausts, bigotry, oppression, corruption, sectarian violence and wars, and destructive, ignorant and anti-scientific attitudes towards vaccines and modern medicine at large, global warming, reproductive health, sexuality and free thought.

    In short, that is why I find it offensive.
    Not exactly what I'd call being a "good boy", lol.
    Let's blow this dinosaur heap.

  6. #56
    Orange Tick Squasher Buddhabreath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    If the track had been titled "The Revealing Shastra of God," would you have been happier with it? Maybe. I think Anderson was just trying to use English instead of Sanskrit, but of course the words don't exactly correlate.
    Yes I certainly would have been. Please note I was very careful not to impugn Mr. Anderson's character in any way and you may well be right concerning his intentions.
    There are more stars in the visible universe than there are grains of sand on planet earth.

  7. #57
    Orange Tick Squasher Buddhabreath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plasmatopia View Post
    Not exactly what I'd call being a "good boy", lol.
    Well it's all relative isn't it?. It's being good for me.
    There are more stars in the visible universe than there are grains of sand on planet earth.

  8. #58
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuhlmate View Post
    Martin Hall: THE ICECOLD WATERS OF THE EGOCENTRIC CALCULATION

    http://www.martinhall.com/?p=2129
    Are you sure that's Prog?
    "Of course you are allowed to trumpet your profound ignorance by disagreeing with me." -- Facelift

  9. #59
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddhabreath View Post
    Yes I certainly would have been. Please note I was very careful not to impugn Mr. Anderson's character in any way and you may well be right concerning his intentions.
    "Of course you are allowed to trumpet your profound ignorance by disagreeing with me." -- Facelift

  10. #60
    Orange Tick Squasher Buddhabreath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Progbear View Post
    Not disagreeing with anything that’s been submitted thus far. Allow me to throw another in the ring, already mentioned in an adjoining thread: “Atlantis’ Agony at June 5th—8498, 13 P.M. Gregorian Earthtime” by Eloy.
    Initially missed that one - that is indeed a contender. A truly exquisite and awesome combination of stupidity and pretentiousness! A little light on the offensiveness however IMO.
    There are more stars in the visible universe than there are grains of sand on planet earth.

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddhabreath View Post
    Sure, happy to explain. Unless you have a very unconventional definition of "God" it has nothing to do with science. In fact the notion of an un-created eternal supreme being or creator-entity is antithetical to science being by definition a hypothesis that cannot be tested and therefore not within the realm of science...

    Ms Dawson, I think you have too much baggage to enjoy this Ocean cruise. Science in the title isn't referring to studying God. Its refers to the unfolding nature of the universe and its inhabitants.

  12. #62
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddhabreath View Post
    Initially missed that one - that is indeed a contender. A truly exquisite and awesome combination of stupidity and pretentiousness! A little light on the offensiveness however IMO.
    Come on, Pope Gregory was offensively religious!
    "Of course you are allowed to trumpet your profound ignorance by disagreeing with me." -- Facelift

  13. #63
    Orange Tick Squasher Buddhabreath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rojon View Post
    Ms Dawson, I think you have too much baggage to enjoy this Ocean cruise. Science in the title isn't referring to studying God. Its refers to the unfolding nature of the universe and its inhabitants.
    Ms Richards, I would refer you to the following reference: https://www.wikihow.com/Diagram-Sentences. Hope that helps! In any event I never claimed it referred to the study of God.

    Also my alleged "baggage" does not now prevent my from enjoying that Yes album. In fact someone on the forum quite a while ago set me straight on that and I revisited the album and I think parts of TFTO are actually brilliant. Thank you.
    Last edited by Buddhabreath; 1 Week Ago at 01:11 PM.
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  14. #64
    Orange Tick Squasher Buddhabreath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    Come on, Pope Gregory was offensively religious!
    Well that was his job. We also have to cut him some slack since he is the patron saint of musicians and singers!
    There are more stars in the visible universe than there are grains of sand on planet earth.

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddhabreath View Post
    Sure, happy to explain. Unless you have a very unconventional definition of "God" it has nothing to do with science. In fact the notion of an un-created eternal supreme being or creator-entity is antithetical to science being by definition a hypothesis that cannot be tested and therefore not within the realm of science or as Jay Gould put it, "non-overlapping magisteria". Personally, I don't agree with this view, but this is not the proper place to get into that (see moderators? I'm being a good boy!).

    Finally, not only does science have nothing to do with God, but God as concept or thing reveals nothing, has never contributed to the furtherance of knowledge or made any valid predictions. Quite the opposite, it has been a regressive force in civilization, society and progress from biblical genocide to the dark ages to endless persecutions, pogroms and holocausts, bigotry, oppression, corruption, sectarian violence and wars, and destructive, ignorant and anti-scientific attitudes towards vaccines and modern medicine at large, global warming, reproductive health, sexuality and free thought.

    In short, that is why I find it offensive.
    Ahh, now we get to the core of it. You're "offended" by Anderson's "spiritual" outlook, whatever that is. You're uncomfortable with his "metaphysical" world view and regard his beliefs as being silly or stupid because they somehow conflict with your beliefs and you don't like the use of the G word. Got it. You may be taking the words "science" and "God" a bit too literally in this context.
    Last edited by DocProgger; 1 Week Ago at 01:19 PM.

  16. #66
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    In before the close!

  17. #67
    Orange Tick Squasher Buddhabreath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocProgger View Post
    Ahh, now we get to the core of it. You're "offended" by Anderson's "spiritual" outlook, whatever that is. You're uncomfortable with his "metaphysical" world view and regard his beliefs as being silly or stupid because they somehow conflict with your beliefs and you don't like the use of the G word. Got it.
    Not at all. I'm not sure how you got that - people should be free to believe what they wish and as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else, I'm fine with it. I merely explained why I found the song title offensive, stupid and pretentious. In fact I went out of my way in the OP to point out that I was in no way impugning Mr. Anderson's character and I explicitly repeated that a few posts ago. I even said he was a "far more talented and better person than I". Still if you want to read hostility into it, do as you will but it seems like you are the one who has been offended! If that is the case, it certainly wasn't my intention.

    <edit>

    Got it. You may be taking the words "science" and "God" a bit too literally in this context.
    Also already acknowledged. See post #56.

    I have to ask, why would you think I would be "uncomfortable" with somebody else's metaphysical view? That just seems bizarre and would never occur to me. In fact I find it fascinating. Often the more "out there" the more fascinating...
    Last edited by Buddhabreath; 1 Week Ago at 01:40 PM.
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  18. #68
    Member Zeuhlmate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    Are you sure that's Prog?
    Ish

  19. #69
    If you substitute the word "universe" for the G word, would you still have such a visceral reaction to the title? Methinks not. I don't necessarily share or even fully understand JA's spiritual views, but I think the title actually makes sense in the context of Yes' music. That's why I questioned why one would use the word "offensive". I would have a similar reaction if someone said they were "offended" by George Harrison's "Within You Without You" or Livgrens "Miracles Out of Nowhere". You're uncomfortable with an outlook you don't share. But hey, you have a right to be "offended" by anything you want, I was just trying to understand why you found it offensive, and now I understand.
    Last edited by DocProgger; 1 Week Ago at 01:58 PM.

  20. #70
    Occipital Provocatee Plasmatopia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddhabreath View Post
    ...I was in no way impugning Mr. Anderson's character.
    You did seem to impugn the character of "god"....although I guess that shouldn't be offensive since it was only your particular concept of god and it's quite likely others have their own take. Or perhaps you were taking a shot at organized religion, which, to me, is not at all appropriate/relevant to the discussion of the song title (TRSOG).
    Let's blow this dinosaur heap.

  21. #71
    Orange Tick Squasher Buddhabreath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocProgger View Post
    If you substitute the word "universe" for the G word, would you still have such a visceral reaction to the title? Methinks not. I don't necessarily share or even fully understand JA's spiritual views, but I think the title actually makes sense in the context of Yes' music. That's why I questioned why one would use the word "offensive". I would have a similar reaction if someone said they were "offended" by George Harrison's "Within You Without You". You're uncomfortable with an outlook you don't share.
    The answer to your question is a resounding no! And I find "Within You Without You" beautiful and profound.

    It never seems to fail that when one expresses their point of view and questions or critiques the "God concept", people take offense and rather than respond to the argument they make assumptions and accusations of the questioner and often arrogantly assume the questioner is somehow superficial and lacking in the experience of awe, beauty, the ineffable or transcendent etc. Well my experience is quite the opposite I can assure you. Please, let's not confuse personal experience and belief with the ugly politics and historical implications of intransigent belief in an eternal truth that must not be challenged.

    What would make me uncomfortable (and bored) is if we all shared the same outlook.

    Does that clear it up?
    There are more stars in the visible universe than there are grains of sand on planet earth.

  22. #72
    Orange Tick Squasher Buddhabreath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plasmatopia View Post
    You did seem to impugn the character of "god"....although I guess that shouldn't be offensive since it was only your particular concept of god and it's quite likely others have their own take. Or perhaps you were taking a shot at organized religion, which, to me, is not at all appropriate/relevant to the discussion of the song title (TRSOG).
    I will leave this as my final post in this regard since this is veering wildly off-topic (I hope we can get back to the titles - I don't wish the thread to be killed). I clearly expressed my reasons why the title is offensively stupid. But no, I did not at any point impugn the character of "god". In fact, how can I impugn something for which I have never seen a shred of evidence?
    There are more stars in the visible universe than there are grains of sand on planet earth.

  23. #73
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddhabreath View Post
    In any event I never claimed it referred to the study of God.
    Perhaps not study per se, but the knowledge of God. Which is what the word "science" actually means (from the Latin scire, to know). I like the German Wissenschaft better, again from a root meaning "to know," and recalling Nietzshe's (by way of Mahler) Fröhliche Wissenschaft, The Joyful Science.

    Quote Originally Posted by Friedrich Nietzsche
    After Buddhabreath was dead, people
    showed his shadow for centuries afterwards in a
    cave,—an immense frightful shadow. God is dead:
    but as the human race is constituted, there will
    perhaps be caves for millenniums yet, in which
    people will show his shadow.—And we—we have
    still to overcome his shadow!

  24. #74
    Orange Tick Squasher Buddhabreath's Avatar
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    ^^^

    Cute. Pedantic, but cute.
    There are more stars in the visible universe than there are grains of sand on planet earth.

  25. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddhabreath View Post

    It never seems to fail that when one expresses their point of view and questions or critiques the "God concept",
    So just to be accurate, you aren't just offended at the title of RSOG, you are offended at the entire concept behind the song and the composer's meanings and intentions as you see them.

    Anyway, I might go with "Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave and Grooving with a Pict" ....
    Last edited by DocProgger; 1 Week Ago at 02:20 PM.

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