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Thread: Steven Wilson- Home Invasion in concert RAH coming soon

  1. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    So, does this include his rant about pop music?
    It’s on the album, so ... I’m afraid it does.

    Wow it’s silly.

    Just play the song, Steve, if you want to.

    That ”intellectual” approach is just so ... meh.

  2. #27

    I feel like I am a season ticket subscriber to the Royal Albert Hall

    With the recent purchases of the Deluxe Blu Ray sets of Steve Hackett/Genesis Revisited at RAH and the Marillion Deluxe All One Tonight at RAH and now this Wilson BD at RAH set, I feel like I know every nook and cranny of the place. I guess doing a big elaborate production at this venerable venue and filming it for posterity is now the "in" Prog thing to do. All great shows so pristinely filmed. Amazing compared to what we grew up with for concert videos on VHS back in the 70s/80s.

    Here's a suggestion/request/nitpick. With all the cameras used to film these, and the huge storage capacity of Blu-Ray, I wish they would offer the viewer a secondary video option of watching these concerts from a fixed central position from the audience perspective about 12-15 rows back on the floor which simply shows the band playing as a whole, with no camera movement or editing--just as if you're dead center with a nice unobstructed view of the whole stage. They have a camera that is shooting from that perspective anyway for periodic shots. You could then see the whole video screen backdrops without the need for editing or double layering/overlapping the shots (which is done frequently in the Wlison video). While all these concerts look fantastic in hi def, I still feel, especially with Wilson's concert videos, there is too much cutting/editing/camera movement and sometimes overdone attempts to get "artsy" shots with things purposely out of focus, odd perspectives etc. Why not give the viewer a choice if he just wants to sit back and watch the concert at home just as if he had a great dead center seat where he can see the whole stage from dead center? Surely the room and technology is there already on BD to do that.

    So which big prog band/artist is next to film a show at RAH? How about IQ?!
    Last edited by DocProgger; 12-18-2018 at 10:24 PM.

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by DocProgger View Post
    With the recent purchases of the Deluxe Blu Ray sets of Steve Hackett/Genesis Revisited at RAH and the Marillion Deluxe All One Tonight at RAH and now this Wilson BD at RAH set, I feel like I know every nook and cranny of the place. I guess doing a big elaborate production at this venerable venue and filming it for posterity is now the "in" Prog thing to do. All great shows so pristinely filmed. Amazing compared to what we grew up with for concert videos on VHS back in the 70s/80s.

    Here's a suggestion/request/nitpick. With all the cameras used to film these, and the huge storage capacity of Blu-Ray, I wish they would offer the viewer a secondary video option of watching these concerts from a fixed central position from the audience perspective about 12-15 rows back on the floor which simply shows the band playing as a whole, with no camera movement or editing--just as if you're dead center with a nice unobstructed view of the whole stage. They have a camera that is shooting from that perspective anyway for periodic shots. You could then see the whole video screen backdrops without the need for editing or double layering/overlapping the shots (which is done frequently in the Wlison video). While all these concerts look fantastic in hi def, I still feel, especially with Wilson's concert videos, there is too much cutting/editing/camera movement and sometimes overdone attempts to get "artsy" shots with things purposely out of focus, odd perspectives etc. Why not give the viewer a choice if he just wants to sit back and watch the concert at home just as if he had a great dead center seat where he can see the whole stage from dead center? Surely the room and technology is there already on BD to do that.

    So which big prog band/artist is next to film a show at RAH? How about IQ?!
    Camel's release should be out soon

  4. #29
    Member jefftiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocProgger View Post
    Here's a suggestion/request/nitpick. With all the cameras used to film these, and the huge storage capacity of Blu-Ray, I wish they would offer the viewer a secondary video option of watching these concerts from a fixed central position from the audience perspective about 12-15 rows back on the floor which simply shows the band playing as a whole, with no camera movement or editing--just as if you're dead center with a nice unobstructed view of the whole stage. They have a camera that is shooting from that perspective anyway for periodic shots. You could then see the whole video screen backdrops without the need for editing or double layering/overlapping the shots (which is done frequently in the Wlison video). While all these concerts look fantastic in hi def, I still feel, especially with Wilson's concert videos, there is too much cutting/editing/camera movement and sometimes overdone attempts to get "artsy" shots with things purposely out of focus, odd perspectives etc. Why not give the viewer a choice if he just wants to sit back and watch the concert at home just as if he had a great dead center seat where he can see the whole stage from dead center? Surely the room and technology is there already on BD to do that.
    It's an interesting idea and it's probably technically possible to insert such a stream on a Blu-ray disc together with the edited concert. For me, the video production was very impressive, making terrific use of the RAH venue, which ranks as one of my favorite concert venues. I was at this show and I finally found myself in the video for a split second during "The Sound of Muzak" as the camera panned across the audience during one of those artsy split-screen shots. I was in the seventh row center, sitting next to a Scottish fan who I enjoyed talking with that evening.

  5. #30
    Don't get me wrong, it's pretty cool to see some of the distant shots of the venue and see some differing perspectives. My suggestion is purely as another alternative video option, assuming the room on the discs is there to do it without compromising video quality.

  6. #31
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    I think that's an excellent idea, if feasible.
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  7. #32
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    I think that's a good idea as well. I've been thinking lately that the RAH has become the more prestigious version of the Wispianski Theater in Krakow (site of tens of Clive Nolan-related concert videos).

  8. #33
    Yes, Steven's RAH has too much editing and quick cuts. I couldn't even finish watching it. I prefer live videos that look more like live TV broadcasts. If you loose the live feel, the feeling of being there, you've blown the whole reason for making a live DVD.

  9. #34
    随缘 SRS's Avatar
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    Totally agree with that idea! It's awesome we are getting so many concert films but the constant quick cut editing (where a shot is not held for more than 2 seconds) makes some of them nearly unwatchable. Having a secondary video option with a static shot is a great idea and would be a cool way to enjoy watching these concerts more than once.

  10. #35
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    The production looks great from my perspective, from the videos that Wilson put on YouTube. I could do without the kaleidoscope effect (a little goes a long way). There's definitely a lot of effort put into creating the video as an "experience" vs. a by-product of the music.

    Quote Originally Posted by DocProgger View Post
    Here's a suggestion/request/nitpick. With all the cameras used to film these, and the huge storage capacity of Blu-Ray, I wish they would offer the viewer a secondary video option of watching these concerts from a fixed central position from the audience perspective about 12-15 rows back on the floor which simply shows the band playing as a whole, with no camera movement or editing--just as if you're dead center with a nice unobstructed view of the whole stage.
    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    I think that's an excellent idea, if feasible.
    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    I think that's a good idea as well.

    It is technically feasible (though a bit trickier on Blu-Ray), but the multi-angle feature is something that never really caught on beyond an initial novelty. I actually created/authored a multi-angle concert DVD for a client about a dozen years ago. It was pretty fun, but it was also designed to be multi-angle from the beginning.

    One of the main issues (especially in the DVD days) had to do with bitrate limitations. The more material you have, you'd have to compress the hell out of them to make use of it.

    But as to why Steven Wilson doesn't offer a "static camera" experience option on his concert videos? That could be rooted in why artists provide you the soundboard audio, fully mixed (sometimes overdubbed), and even available in 5.1. They are interested in creating a full production experience, not a simulation. There could also be several technical or logistical reasons around the production itself.


    While all these concerts look fantastic in hi def, I still feel, especially with Wilson's concert videos, there is too much cutting/editing/camera movement and sometimes overdone attempts to get "artsy" shots with things purposely out of focus, odd perspectives etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Man In The Mountain View Post
    Yes, Steven's RAH has too much editing and quick cuts. I couldn't even finish watching it. I prefer live videos that look more like live TV broadcasts. If you loose the live feel, the feeling of being there, you've blown the whole reason for making a live DVD.
    I think that's a matter of taste. Assuming that Wilson is even considering this, my impression is that the audience Steven is targeting expects a more produced, faster-paced, "music video" style production. I think given the music he creates and how he's a bit fussy over "seated" audiences, he seems to be looking for a higher energy factor. But then again, I'm just guessing here.

    In regards to the "concert experience", think about Bohemian Rhapsody. In my opinion, the best part of the movie was the Live Aid sequence. For a few moments in the theater, I actually felt I *was* there. BR's recreation of that was highly produced and edited, capturing the emotion of the musicians, crowd, etc. There's actually a side-by-side you can view...



    From my perspective, Wilson seems to have some visual preferences and a style that he wants to convey. Why not let him do that? Why do we so casually say a video has "too many cuts" and should be "the way I want" when we would show a lot more reservation to say the music Wilson produces has "too many notes" or has "too many effects"? Food for thought anyway.
    WANTED: Sig-worthy quote.

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post

    From my perspective, Wilson seems to have some visual preferences and a style that he wants to convey. Why not let him do that? Why do we so casually say a video has "too many cuts" and should be "the way I want" when we would show a lot more reservation to say the music Wilson produces has "too many notes" or has "too many effects"? Food for thought anyway.
    My suggestion was as an addition to, not a replacement for the main concert video. And if that means cutting out some extras on the Blu ray like interviews (usually very generic) or extra videos etc to make the bitrate capacity available, so be it. I think there are dual layer BDs now made also. As to Wilson's concert videos specifically, the PT Anesthetize concert was far less "busy" and over edited than his others and remains the best PT/Wilson concert video imo. There is a point where some concert videos are so highly edited and full of dizzying cuts that I get dizzy watching them. Most people, from my experience, just want to watch the show as if you were there, not feel like you're on a roller coaster or be a pawn in the MTV/video gamer short attention span movement.
    Last edited by DocProgger; 12-19-2018 at 12:00 PM.

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    From my perspective, Wilson seems to have some visual preferences and a style that he wants to convey. Why not let him do that? Why do we so casually say a video has "too many cuts" and should be "the way I want" when we would show a lot more reservation to say the music Wilson produces has "too many notes" or has "too many effects"? Food for thought anyway.
    He can do whatever he wants, and does, of course. But I have never been the of the mindset that everything an artist does and wants must be wonderful and I should enjoy whatever it is they wish me to enjoy. Was Trevor Rabin right to put fake audience noise in the ARW video? Seems like that was a deal breaker for a lot of people. And if Wilson is continually aiming for a younger audience, then I'll take a pass on his future products, and stick with his geriatric products of the past. Is that what he really wants? Seriously, I like artists that seem to connect with me musically. It's like we're speaking the same language. If Wilson likes concert videos that look like MTV videos, then we are not connecting. He may love that, but I want more a concert experience in my home, not a music video. That's my food for thought.

  13. #38
    Moderator Poisoned Youth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocProgger View Post
    My suggestion was as an addition to, not a replacement for the main concert video.
    Ya, I got that. I think it's feasible, but not too likely. I think you'd have to find an artist who believes in the concept for them to consider it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Man In The Mountain View Post
    He can do whatever he wants, and does, of course. But I have never been the of the mindset that everything an artist does and wants must be wonderful and I should enjoy whatever it is they wish me to enjoy.
    Sure thing. I agree it's fine to be critical. I just find it interesting as I've read the same criticism about how concert videos are edited for years and years.
    WANTED: Sig-worthy quote.

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Poisoned Youth View Post
    I just find it interesting as I've read the same criticism about how concert videos are edited for years and years.
    Yup. Because more times than not, they are edited by numbers. The modern school of concert editing. Just like brickwalling audio. There's no thought put into it as to the mood and focal point of the show. They used to do it on everything, but such a rare things these days. Often times I enjoy watching good audience videos more than official releases.

  15. #40
    Member gearHed289's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure there's a live Rush DVD that has the option to choose the "Geddy cam" or "Neil cam" etc. I'm not sure if it was for the whole concert, or just parts of certain songs.

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by gearHed289 View Post
    I'm pretty sure there's a live Rush DVD that has the option to choose the "Geddy cam" or "Neil cam" etc. I'm not sure if it was for the whole concert, or just parts of certain songs.
    KC's Deja VROOOM DVD had a few tracks that allowed you to isolate an individual on camera and bring his part to the front of the mix. I wish more bands would do something like this.

  17. #42
    Mike Oldfield's "Exposed" DVD also has a "multiple angles" feature.
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  18. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by tormato View Post
    KC's Deja VROOOM DVD had a few tracks that allowed you to isolate an individual on camera and bring his part to the front of the mix. I wish more bands would do something like this.
    Yep, that Crimson DVD is part of what I was thinking of with this suggestion. I'm surprised that that kind of concept hasn't been more implemented with BluRay, which has much more capacity to do it. If I recall, one of the multi-angle options was a central stage view as I described above.

  19. #44
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Wislon released a short unboxing video of the vinyl edition of Home Invasion. Maybe it sounds warmer than the CD or Blu-Ray. but listening to 10 album sides seems like an awful lot of work!

  20. #45
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    ^^^^ Like sitting a Prog exam with an added essay on how important Abba, Tears For Fears and Prince were to the development of pop music...

  21. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    Release date Nov. 2, 2018.

    [...] Looks like they've finally stopped combining DVDs and Blu-Rays in the same set, which is good!
    It is fine with me, as long as they provide 2CDs with either one of them.
    "Confusion Will Be My Epitaph"

  22. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    Wislon released a short unboxing video of the vinyl edition of Home Invasion. Maybe it sounds warmer than the CD or Blu-Ray. but listening to 10 album sides seems like an awful lot of work!
    Was raised on vinyl and could not agree more with you
    "Confusion Will Be My Epitaph"

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