Correlation between love to prog and intelligence?

[Silantyev]

I've been asking myself this question and maybe some of brethren proggers did as well.

We all agree that the music that we listen to is mostly very smart. It is complex, sophisticated, intellectual. Does the fact that we listen to this music make us intellectually superior to the ones who do not? Of course, if I put the question like this it sounds very arrogant, so let me re-phrase.

Do you think there's a positive correlation between complexity of music a person likes and the IQ level of this person?

Have you came across any studies that would demonstrate it?

Knowing quite a bit about statistics I would be able to design a representative survey however the sheer effort of executing this survey would be to much for me...

[Poisoned Youth]

Do you think there's a positive correlation between complexity of music a person likes and the IQ level of this person?

Have you ever read the threads here LOL???

In all serious, I would say such a correlation is arbitrary. I think you'll find a stronger correlation with those who have played music - amateur or professional - and the music itself. Prog fans (and an extension to jazz and classical fans) tend to be "more serious" about music than the average person.

[Scrotum Scissor]

One of the essential lessons received after collecting, listening to, playing/performing, studying and writing on purportedly advanced types of rock music for 30 years+ is the following:

The alleged "complexity" of most so-called progressive rock is, from a formal standpoint in music, either strictly genre-relative or at worst highly overblown and prone to little but interpretations of a definition exclusive to the same folks who pride themselves with "understanding" it.

So no, "prog" fans aren't especially "intelligent" any more than "metal" fans are "tough guys". It's all about the reasons for (and functions of) adherence to particular styles and musical approaches.

[yamishogun]

So no, "prog" fans aren't especially "intelligent" any more than "metal" fans are "tough guys".

This isn't correct. Prog, jazz and classical fans have higher I.Q.s on average (that is key) than those who like simpler pop music and studies have shown this. The fondness for classical music correlates with the highest I.Q. range but among the three the difference isn't that large.

[Buddhabreath]

Personally, I think there's something to it. This brings to mind the philosopher John Stuart Mill who said, "I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid; I meant, that stupid persons are generally Conservative. I believe that to be so obvious and undeniable a fact that I hardly think any hon. Gentleman will question it." A corollary might be not all progressive music listeners are intelligent, but intelligent persons are generally open to progressive music.

You can google and find many studies that find correlations between exposure to music (particularly playing an instrument) and cognitive abilities, but specific causes seem to be lacking. There seems little doubt that music appreciation and playing have positive benefits on certain modes of cognition. There are even some informal "studies" by genre which put classical at the top for intelligence and country near the bottom. Now there's a shocker!

https://ledgernote.com/features/high...aste-in-music/

In my personal experience, morons generally do not like classical music or any music with complex structures, long-form music requiring focused listening, music that does not conform to preconceptions regarding rhythmic structures, harmony etc.

[Zalmoxe]

This isn't correct. Prog, jazz and classical fans have higher I.Q.s on average (that is key) than those who like simpler pop music and studies have shown this. The fondness for classical music correlates with the highest I.Q. range but among the three the difference isn't that large.

Can you quote the "studies" that "have shown this"?

[yamishogun]

Can you quote the "studies" that "have shown this"?

I'll have to look them up.

[miamiscot]

I have always believed that music works on different parts of the brain and fans of a particular genre react positively to music that "scratches that itch." People who just want music as background ambiance are neither more nor less intelligent than people who like to dance or those who need to hit the mosh pit or merely want to relax. The particular itch that Prog scratches (at least for me) is the same one that leads me to any other intellectual pursuit. Some people have no desire for music to be that in their lives. It is, by definition, more demanding and thus more time consuming. Music just isn't that important to some folks to allocate the time and energy it takes to enjoy more complex forms. I know! I don't get it either!!!

I once ran a record store in Florida and I interviewed this guy who wanted a job but said he didn't really like music all that much. Whatever was on the radio was fine. I was offended and confused so of course I hired him - if only to see if I could fix that. I couldn't but he was a great employee and went on to great things with the company. He was really smart. I'm an idiot. So not all Prog fans are gifted with a high IQ!!!

[Scrotum Scissor]

This isn't correct. Prog, jazz and classical fans have higher I.Q.s on average (that is key) than those who like simpler pop music and studies have shown this. The fondness for classical music correlates with the highest I.Q. range but among the three the difference isn't that large.

But my point was that intelligent people in general are as unlikely to be "prog fans" as they are likely to be "pop" ones. That a higher average of progressive rock, jazz and classical enthusiasts listen more attentively - and as such also more actively in search of articulate "meaning" - to the sound of their choice and preference, this isn't particularly surprising. In addition there's the "train-the-brain" dynamic; detail and nuance offer challenge to basic cognition and memory.

Yet, once again, there's that tiny knot of definition. As late as the mid-90s certain media were still toting surveys "documenting" how the average heavy metal-listener was less intelligent than average listeners of other genres. Unfortunately, they usually forgot to define 'Heavy metal' - a non-singular approach to "rock power" which by then was starting to take in serious influences from academic contemporary musics of several sorts. So, if the understanding today of "prog rock" is some doof artist farting out mere replicas of soundscapes and lyrics and themes of some other artist from 40-50 years back, then I'd say it depends on how they would define their mission and craft to reach artistic integrity - and judge eventual "intelligence" from whether or not the results are successful in bringing that message across to anyone who might be listening.

[alanterrill]

This is an interesting subject - I'm sure we'd all like to think we were intellectualy superior for liking complex music, but I wonder if we're consistent acroos the arts? For example, do you also like obscure, little known theatre groups, or watch arty French filns with subtitles? I'm always finding myself in the 'likes the little known' category whether its architecture, theatre, sculpture or music, and I'm always surprised when people who read a lot and care about the authors intentions etc then go off and listen to Elton John or watch Harry Potter films. It seems inconsistent to me.

[Poisoned Youth]

but I wonder if we're consistent acroos the arts?

In my experience, most people are not consistent with this. My "sophisticated" tastes are with music and booze. Otherwise I'm pretty mainstream with movies, tv, food, etc.

[JKL2000]

Can you quote the "studies" that "have shown this"?

It was conducted by the PROG Magazine Institute, in Vienna.

[miamiscot]

But my point was that intelligent people in general are as unlikely to be "prog fans" as they are likely to be "pop" ones. That a higher average of progressive rock, jazz and classical enthusiasts listen more attentively - and as such also more actively in search of articulate "meaning" - to the sound of their choice and preference, this isn't particularly surprising. In addition there's the "train-the-brain" dynamic; detail and nuance offer challenge to basic cognition and memory.

Yet, once again, there's that tiny knot of definition. As late as the mid-90s certain media were still toting surveys "documenting" how the average heavy metal-listener was less intelligent than average listeners of other genres. Unfortunately, they usually forgot to define 'Heavy metal' - a non-singular approach to "rock power" which by then was starting to take in serious influences from academic contemporary musics of several sorts. So, if the understanding today of "prog rock" is some doof artist farting out mere replicas of soundscapes and lyrics and themes of some other artist from 40-50 years back, then I'd say it depends on how they would define their mission and craft to reach artistic integrity - and judge eventual "intelligence" from whether or not the results are successful in bringing that message across to anyone who might be listening.

Kids say the damnedest things!!! You are, of course, correct.

[revporl]

The brightest person that I know by a long chalk, our data analyst at work, who has done a phd in neurology and who, as a hobby (!), creates AI neurological models listens purely to Jamaican Dancehall. I don't think that there's any correlation. I think prog is a great aural spectacle, my favourite, but is overall emotionally immature compared to a lot of other types of pop music. A literature student that I used to share a flat with dismissed all my music as "Mystic Dragons", he just thought it was juvenile showing off.

[Nearfest2]

smrt_magma.jpg

[yamishogun]

It was conducted by the PROG Magazine Institute, in Vienna.

Nope.

The first "uses data from the 1993 General Sociology Survey, conducted by the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago. The 1,500 respondents were asked to rate 18 genres of music on a scale of 1 (strongly dislike) to 5 (strongly like)." Then they were given a short verbal test that corresponds to intelligence.

There was another similar survey in London. It isn't as if P.E. is the first time someone has thought of this.

[yamishogun]

The brightest person that I know by a long chalk, our data analyst at work, who has done a phd in neurology and who, as a hobby (!), creates AI neurological models listens purely to Jamaican Dancehall. I don't think that there's any correlation.

Thank you for submitting your study with n = 1 participants. We are currently reviewing it.

[revporl]

Ha ha yeah, it wouldn't pass muster with him for sure!

[Facelift]

I've been asking myself this question and maybe some of brethren proggers did as well.

We all agree that the music that we listen to is mostly very smart. It is complex, sophisticated, intellectual. Does the fact that we listen to this music make us intellectually superior to the ones who do not? Of course, if I put the question like this it sounds very arrogant, so let me re-phrase.

Do you think there's a positive correlation between complexity of music a person likes and the IQ level of this person?

Have you came across any studies that would demonstrate it?

Knowing quite a bit about statistics I would be able to design a representative survey however the sheer effort of executing this survey would be to much for me...

Progressive rock? No.

Actual complicated, sophisticated music like classical and jazz? Probably.

[infandous]

With the way so many prog fans wall themselves into prog and prog only, I'm going to say that there probably isn't any correlation whatsoever. I'm speaking from personal experience, by the way. For a good 20 years, I listened to virtually nothing but prog, because I loved it so much. I still love it, but I find that I enjoy many other types of music as well, including those that are allegedly more "cerebral" (jazz, classical, avant-garde, etc.) along with pop music, blues, folk, reggae, etc.

Also, I've known some incredibly intelligent people (MESA members, scientists) that don't really have any interest in music, even as background noise. My experience, of course, does not constitute evidence of anything, and could just be an example of the exceptions that make the rule. But that's my take on it, anyway.

[Zappathustra]

Progressive rock? No.

Actual complicated, sophisticated music like classical and jazz? Probably.

Is there a correlation between having no life and being a troll? Seriously, I'd like to know, since you oblige to enlighten us on so many other things.

[bondegezou]

The first "uses data from the 1993 General Sociology Survey, conducted by the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago. The 1,500 respondents were asked to rate 18 genres of music on a scale of 1 (strongly dislike) to 5 (strongly like)." Then they were given a short verbal test that corresponds to intelligence.

There was another similar survey in London. It isn't as if P.E. is the first time someone has thought of this.

You mean this https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...0.1002/bdm.730 ?

The US survey asked about “big band,” “bluegrass,” “country western,” “blues or R&B,” “Broadway musicals,” “classical,” “folk,” “gospel,” “jazz,” “Latin,” “easy listening,” “new age,” “opera,” “rap,” “reggae,” “contemporary rock,” “oldie,” and “heavy metal”. The researchers split these genres into instrumental (big band, classical, and easy listening) or vocal (the rest) and showed a difference between those two categories, with those who like instrumental genres being more intelligent.

Note that prog wasn't asked about and jazz was in the "stupid" group.

With the British survey, they compared “classical” and “light music” as instrumental versus “folk music,” “disco,” “reggae,” “soul,” “heavy rock,” “funk,” “electronic,” “punk,” “other pop music,” and “other” as vocal. Again, those who like instrumental genres scored higher on the intelligence test used.

Again, no prog category and this time no jazz.

So, first off, yamishogun is wrong to say this shows that higher intelligence is associated with prog or jazz. There is some evidence here of an association with liking classical music, although the analyses performed are shoving lots of different genres together.

Is the evidence around liking classical music robust? Not really. Posh, rich people do better on IQ tests. Posh, rich people like classical music. There's an obvious confound here. That doesn't prove a casual link.

Henry

[Facelift]

Is there a correlation between having no life and being a troll? Seriously, I'd like to know, since you oblige to enlighten us on so many other things.

Want to actually debate the point, or just spout off your typical indefensible, useless garbage?

[moecurlythanu]

I used to believe that it was true that Prog-Rock fans are smarter than the general population. I reasoned that the complexity, twists & turns in the music required a level of mental dexterity that was a step up from the average person. I believed this from the late 70s to nearly 2000.



Then I got on the internet.

It may prove true that Prog-Rock fans are more intellectually curious or more & better educated, but more intelligent? On balance? Um, no. I can say that with a fair amount of certainty.

I remember my first Nearfest in 02. During the first break between bands, I observed something that I had never seen before, and which chilled me to the bone. While walking around the building there in Trenton, I saw probably a dozen people lounging and reading books during the break. At a Rock Concert. I was both amazed and weirded out. In a concert going career of literally hundreds of concerts, I had never seen that. It probably says something, but I'd guess it has more to do with the nerd quotient than anything else.

[NogbadTheBad]

Well I know there is a correlation with myself but I'm not so sure about you lot.