When listening, is the system important to you?

[Andyyyy]

Because so many who listen to prog, jazz, classical probably to listen to detail, I would think that the system you're listening on would be important. Is it? Or can you just listen to music through an ordinary stereo one can get at Target or other stores. Is your listening area treated? And what is your system comprised of? OK, I'll start. I have a vintage Scott tube amp, the 222 D driving a pair of vintage Klipsch Horns. My player is an older Arcam. I have a vintage B&O turntable, but I need to either have it repaired or replace it with a new one.

[SteveSly]

Because so many who listen to prog, jazz, classical probably to listen to detail, I would think that the system you're listening on would be important. Is it? Or can you just listen to music through an ordinary stereo one can get at Target or other stores. Is your listening area treated? And what is your system comprised of? OK, I'll start. I have a vintage Scott tube amp, the 222 D driving a pair of vintage Klipsch Horns. My player is an older Arcam. I have a vintage B&O turntable, but I need to either have it repaired or replace it with a new one.

My favorite place to listen to music is my car in which I have a surroundsound system that sounds great. At home, my wife and I moved into a condo quite a few years ago, so I had to downsize my stereo so I have a very basic small system.

[GuitarGeek]

Well, I don't think I've ever really owned a "nice" stereo system, so I guess I've never had the experience of listening to music on such equipment, other than maybe at someone else's house. So for me, I guess it's not quite as important, since I "don't know what I'm missing". I guess.

But there is a lower limit I wouldn't stoop to. I need speakers that can at least reproduce a full range sound. I don't remember what's in the setup I've got now (my dad took it upon himself to buy it from me back in the late 90's, so the fact that it's still going 20 years later maybe says something). It gets good bottom end, for stuff like the intro to Tom Sawyer, and the mids and top end seem to come through reasonably well too. That's about all I ask for.

[frinspar]

All I ask is for a crackling earbud and a star to see which end goes in my ear to listen by.

[Jerjo]

There's an audiophile thread here on PE but be forewarned, there are many curmudgeonly posts by Mr. Carlberg.

I have a decent system in my living room, it's entry level high end. ARCAM separates with Meadowlark floorstanding speakers. I'm overdue for an upgrade but it'll have to wait another year. In my home office I've got a pair of old Infinity bookshelf speakers (I replaced the drivers), Polk subwoofer, a Yamaha receiver, and I feed it lossless audio files from my PC. The sound is...OK. I need a DAC and a better amp.

[Andyyyy]

There's an audiophile thread here on PE but be forewarned, there are many curmudgeonly posts by Mr. Carlberg.

I have a decent system in my living room, it's entry level high end. ARCAM separates with Meadowlark floorstanding speakers. I'm overdue for an upgrade but it'll have to wait another year. In my home office I've got a pair of old Infinity bookshelf speakers (I replaced the drivers), Polk subwoofer, a Yamaha receiver, and I feed it lossless audio files from my PC. The sound is...OK. I need a DAC and a better amp.

Ah, you're at the event horizon of the rabbit hole!

[progmatist]

I have a mid-level system...not a Walmart special, but not an audiophile system either. In my 800 square foot townhouse with a noisy refrigerator and air conditioner, it would be wasteful to spend thousands on an audiophile system. My neighbor's second bedroom sharing a wall with my living/listening room precludes me from raising the volume to overcome that noise.

[Jerjo]

Here's the audiophile thread

http://www.progressiveears.org/forum...iophile-Thread

[Andyyyy]

Here's the audiophile thread

http://www.progressiveears.org/forum...iophile-Thread

Thanks Jerjo! I'll go there tonight...looks very interesting! Especially the curmudgeonly posts!

[Garyhead]

Thanks Jerjo! I'll go there tonight...looks very interesting! Especially the curmudgeonly posts!

Be Careful.....If you say "Carlberg" three times he'll come back!

[Andyyyy]

Be Careful.....If you say "Carlberg" three times he'll come back!

LOL! I did enjoy reading his posts! Sometimes we audiophiles need to be brought back to reality (whatever that is!)

[progmatist]

Be Careful.....If you say "Carlberg" three times he'll come back!

Yes, that's science.

[Trane]

I'm a meditum range audiophile, meaning that I'll never buy hi-end chains, but I'm beyond the Sony-Panasonic-Kenwood category, as my first hi-fi bought in 76 at aga 13 was Yamaha-built

In my Brussels pad, my hi-fi chain is Yamaha and Bose (dating from the 90's) and my Dutch pad has NAD and B&W (dating from the 00's)

LOL! I did enjoy reading his posts! Sometimes we audiophiles need to be brought back to reality (whatever that is!)

I missed an episode, I guess ... Did he go on his own or get banned (I know he was in the centre of the storm)?

I understand he irritated a few people with his constant hammering on the same points, but he never bothered me (but then again, neither do FL, SH or R).

[Zeuhlmate]

Of course it is. The better HiFi, the better sound, unless you feel that it mostly reveals and emphasize the flaws of the recording.

But earlier on - I have had excellent musical experiences on a plastic turntable with loudspeaker in the lid, so the quality and power of the music and your imagination is probably the most important factor.

[Gruno]

I missed an episode, I guess ... Did he go on his own or get banned (I know he was in the centre of the storm)?

A quick search and here it is.

[Andyyyy]

Of course it is. The better HiFi, the better sound, unless you feel that it mostly reveals and emphasize the flaws of the recording.

But earlier on - I have had excellent musical experiences on a plastic turntable with loudspeaker in the lid, so the quality and power of the music and your imagination is probably the most important factor.

I was curious if this is more important to those who listen to prog, classical or jazz than to most other genres, but there are circumstances which might get in the way of some people having a good system, like where they live (though they might then invest in a good headphone system). I, for one, do want to hear as much detail as I can- good recording or bad.

[rdclark]

It's important to me to be able to hear everything in the recording as clearly as reasonably possible. After a lifetime as a professional in music performance/production and AV production/installation, I am convinced that high-end ("audiophile") equipment is not necessary for this, and usually represents an unfavorable cost/benefit proposition.

I'm a proponent of the mid-price audio equipment presented by what I use myself, a system based on Denon and Definitive Technology (but which could just as easily use speakers and amplification by dozens of other audio manufacturers). Yes, speakers sound different from one another, but most good speakers with low distortion, wide frequency response, and reasonable imaging will give your ears the opportunity to hear what's in the recording without making it sound like something else. Your ears and your speakers will, over time, become a system that works together.

How well you are comfortable with and enjoy the listening experience, once you have decent equipment, has a lot more to do with being in a quiet room that adds little of its own to the sound (buzzes, rattles, weird echoes or reflections, boominess, etc.), and is free of distractions.

Two other things: (1) Sometime the best way to hear everything in the recording is when there's a good 5.1 mix available, and you have a good 5.1 system for listening to it. And (2) sometimes the best way is via headphones. Not earbuds or plugs that go inside the ear, since these inherently compromise the recreation of the soundstage, but on- or over-ear phones. And if your listening room is full of distractions, sometimes taking a hi-rez audio source and good phones somewhere where you can be undisturbed is the best setup for a session of close listening.

[Trane]

It's all up to what you see worthy of your financial investment.... As you go from crap cheap brands to household names, you'll find that the quality return of your finances are evident. Even going to the NAD/Cambridge Audio/Denon/Nakamichi/B&W or JML level is worthy (IMHO), but going the extra step with that very high-end stuff will I feel only bring out marginal improvement for severe financial afforts.

A quick search and here it is.

I'm quite sure he's posted since early august... Or am I??

[Jerjo]

I'm not into Zeuhl so I missed that little flareup. I had noticed he hadn't been around of late. Normally a thread like this would bring him stomping into the foreground, ready to dismiss everything as "woo".

[wiz_d_kidd]

As long as the equipment does a good job of reproduction without introducing any audible artifacts, and you can tailor the frequency response to what is appropriate for your ears, environment, speakers, and recording -- then it is just fine.

[simon moon]

My system is pretty high end, but made up of a combination of: some modified vintage, DIY, and new equipment. So, despite the high end sound quality, it did not cost ridiculous high end dollars.

While I am a "music first" audiophile, the system quality is pretty important to me. I would gladly give up high end gear before I gave up my music, but the high end gear certainly does help me get closer to the music at an emotional and intellectual level. It sure would be tough to go back to a midfi system.

I mean seriously, when you are used to a system that can do things like allow one to: hear a well delineated triangle at the back of an orchestra even when the orchestra is playing fortissimo, very easily hear the sound of the keys of a sax opening and closing, clearly hear pages turning in an orchestra, hear the sound of the drum stick making contact with a cymbal instead of just the sound of the cymbal, hear an image of musicians playing in a 3D soundstage that extends beyond the outside edges of the speakers and deep back behind the speakers, etc (all things that midfi just is not capable of). It would be very hard to give that up.

[Buddhabreath]

For me the system is important but I am fine with earbuds or smaller quality systems for casual enjoyment. My main system is Carver amp for stereo, Dennon for surround, Cambridge Universal Disk Player (also now used to play FLACS and vidoes directly from an external HD to elimate never-ending WiFi problems), Project Turntable and B&W Matrix 801 and matrix center and surround speakers, Velodyne sub woofer. All the B&W gear I got on eBay in great shape except for one driver that needed new surrounds.

Due to the room acoustics and the uncanny sound stage created by 5 channel stereo mode on the Dennon I pretty much listen to everything in this mode. It can really be startling and sound like surround with instruments being placed very specifically in the room and at other times nebulous. I wonder of anyone else has this experience.

I do not have room treatments as such and the low basement room and configuration (relatively open at one end) is an issue with the sound. If I could put this bad boy in the living room it would sound 100% better. I do have wonderful Focal speakers in the living room driven by a newish Yamaha AVR with another Velodyne and a squeezbox. In the bedroom Orb speakers, another squeezbox and a little sprout amp with yet another subwoofer under the bed. In the office Audio Engine speakers driven right off the computer via bluetooth. They all sound different, they all sound good. Sometimes I just listen to my music library via earbuds plugged into my IPad runniing soft squeeze (3rd-party software version of the squeezebox).


P.S. Self-respecting audiophiles hate Bose almost as much as Beats...

[Zeuhlmate]

My gear is old now but works perfectly:

Speakers Snell A-2 (reach 33hz bottom clear, no booming, I hate that)
Power-Amp: Parasound HCA 2200II (200w in 8 ohm)
Pre-amp: Exposure 17
CDplayer: Marantz CD 16-KI imp.
Turntable: Voyd Valdi, Helius arm, Grado signature pickup
FM-Tuner: Parasound Ztuner v2
Speaker cables: Monster
Interconnects: Audio note (silver), Temporal continuum interconnect

I have never regretted the money I have spent on good sound. I have tried a lot before I ended up with this combination, the idea was to match the A2 speakers. I like to hear everything clear and detailed, and to some degree analytical, but without compromising the mood or the soul.

[Andyyyy]

It's important to me to be able to hear everything in the recording as clearly as reasonably possible. After a lifetime as a professional in music performance/production and AV production/installation, I am convinced that high-end ("audiophile") equipment is not necessary for this, and usually represents an unfavorable cost/benefit proposition.

I'm a proponent of the mid-price audio equipment presented by what I use myself, a system based on Denon and Definitive Technology (but which could just as easily use speakers and amplification by dozens of other audio manufacturers). Yes, speakers sound different from one another, but most good speakers with low distortion, wide frequency response, and reasonable imaging will give your ears the opportunity to hear what's in the recording without making it sound like something else. Your ears and your speakers will, over time, become a system that works together.

How well you are comfortable with and enjoy the listening experience, once you have decent equipment, has a lot more to do with being in a quiet room that adds little of its own to the sound (buzzes, rattles, weird echoes or reflections, boominess, etc.), and is free of distractions.

Two other things: (1) Sometime the best way to hear everything in the recording is when there's a good 5.1 mix available, and you have a good 5.1 system for listening to it. And (2) sometimes the best way is via headphones. Not earbuds or plugs that go inside the ear, since these inherently compromise the recreation of the soundstage, but on- or over-ear phones. And if your listening room is full of distractions, sometimes taking a hi-rez audio source and good phones somewhere where you can be undisturbed is the best setup for a session of close listening.

Good points about setting and distractions. Recreating soundstage, I'm not sure about how that works, or fails to work with earbuds & cans. The way I understand this is that soundstage (or the illusion of it) is a result of panning (in a multi track recording) and reflections. The brain can locate the source of a sound by the information that it gets from two ears as well as any reflections from the surroundings. In a system which can deliver that detail, you'll have a soundstage. Will it work with cans and not earbuds? I think it depends on their quality.

What's a good 5.1 mix? I don't hear many as I would rather allocate my budget between 2 better channels rather than 5 or more OK ones. That said, 5.1 is closer to having discreet tracks than 2 channel (unless the 5.1 has L-C-R in front and only reverb in the back two).

[Andyyyy]

My system is pretty high end, but made up of a combination of: some modified vintage, DIY, and new equipment. So, despite the high end sound quality, it did not cost ridiculous high end dollars.

While I am a "music first" audiophile, the system quality is pretty important to me. I would gladly give up high end gear before I gave up my music, but the high end gear certainly does help me get closer to the music at an emotional and intellectual level. It sure would be tough to go back to a midfi system.

I mean seriously, when you are used to a system that can do things like allow one to: hear a well delineated triangle at the back of an orchestra even when the orchestra is playing fortissimo, very easily hear the sound of the keys of a sax opening and closing, clearly hear pages turning in an orchestra, hear the sound of the drum stick making contact with a cymbal instead of just the sound of the cymbal, hear an image of musicians playing in a 3D soundstage that extends beyond the outside edges of the speakers and deep back behind the speakers, etc (all things that midfi just is not capable of). It would be very hard to give that up.

Oh yeah! Like yourself, I have not spent a ton of $$ on equipment. And there is really good vintage audio out there. I bought my Scott amp before they had a comeback (from the 1960s) and weren't priced like they are now. I had to pay for a partial rebuild and some of it I did myself. The one thing I did go into debt for was in 1979 I heard the Klipschhorns and fell in love with that sound, so as I was young and not attached at that time, I bought them. But even new ones today cost about 6K each. Not as much as some other fancy speakers I have seen. Back then I had the option to get them unfinished, so the price was about 1800. You can find used ones now for about 2K. The newer electronics are in my player, an Arcam, due for replacement. There was another major improvement that wasn't too costly, and that was a basic room treatment with foam, mainly for reflections and some bass (another thing I need!).