Is Genesis "Selling England by the Pound" the most perfect Prog album ever?

[feldman]

Inspired by recent discussions on Prog, last night I sat down to listen to "Selling England..." After listening to the entire LP, beginning-to-end, I found myself marvelling at this masterpiece. I wasn't able to find a single weak moment on it (okay, maybe Phil Collins's singing at the end of side one). Everything sounded perfect, perfectly composed, perfectly played, with lot of conviction and passion. A rare bird indeed.

Not only that, but the overall sound of the LP is so magnificent, so sweet, with stupendous bass and crushing drums. I don't care much for Steve Wilson's remaster -- sounds bleached when compared side by side to the original LP.

I struggle to recall a Prog album in my meagre collection that would be as perfect as this one. Curious to hear what others have to offer as the most perfect Prog album (there will no doubt be a huge disagreement with my choice).

[Crawford Glissadevil]

Nope

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

Nope

^^^^
this

[MYSTERIOUS TRAVELLER]

even if we limit the scope to the Symph Rock style of Prog, throwing out Canterbury, Zeuhl, Jazz Rock, Avant and Space Rock, it's still not the best

PFM's Per Un Amico is leaps and bounds greater
Banco's Io Sono Nato Libero
Camel's Snow Goose
Anglagard's Hybris

and dozens of other Symph albums are way better... and I'm not alone in that opinion

there's a website where 100 serious Prog fans from around the world with thousands of Prog albums each, of every style of progressive Rock music, rate their albums. Check it out...

http://gnosis2000.net/cgi-bin/gnosearch.cgi

[TCC]

even if we limit the scope to the Symph Rock style of Prog, throwing out Canterbury, Zeuhl, Jazz Rock, Avant and Space Rock, it's still not the best

PFM's Per Un Amico is leaps and bounds greater
Banco's Io Sono Nato Libero
Camel's Snow Goose
Anglagard's Hybris

and dozens of other Symph albums are way better... and I'm not alone in that opinion …

Agree: love Banco and PFM!.

[regenerativemusic]

Nursery Cryme to Wind and Wuthering (taking out the Lamb because of its bulk) are all perfect prog albums, so many from different bands fit that name that there isn't just one.

[calyx]

Don’t blame SW for the remix/remaster, he had nothing to do with it !

[jkelman]

Don’t blame SW for the remix/remaster, he had nothing to do with it !

...and don't call him "Steve" !!

[gojikranz]

yep

[Sean]

I don't recall Wilson getting his hands on any Genesis albums.... But yeah, this is about as perfect a prog album as you can get. One of them...

[feldman]

I don't recall Wilson getting his hands on any Genesis albums.... But yeah, this is about as perfect a prog album as you can get. One of them...

Whichever is the 2008 remaster (I thought it was Wilson, but could easily be wrong), I find it bleached and devoid of the grandiosity that the original LP has. Yes, sounds clearer, cleaner, instruments and vocals are more etched, but to the detriment of the musical substance.

[DocProgger]

It doesn't have to be "perfect" to be regarded as magnificent and certainly one of the cornerstone progressive rock albums of all time. I don't understand this need to talk in absolutes, both negatively and positively. It has some weak spots--More Fool Me, the way too wordy,busy and meandering Epping Forest. I think Trick of the Tail is a stronger overall album. Lets just enjoy the greatness without the burden of claimed "perfection".

[feldman]

It doesn't have to be "perfect" to be regarded as magnificent and certainly one of the cornerstone progressive rock albums of all time. I don't understand this need to talk in absolutes, both negatively and positively. It has some weak spots--More Fool Me, the way too wordy and meandering Epping Forest. I think Trick of the Tail is a stronger overall album. Lets just enjoy the greatness without the burden of claimed "perfection".

Oh c'mon. Throw me a bone here. Can't a guy have a little fun without being constantly reminded how everything realistically has to be fully relativized? I wanna have my absolutes!

[Skullhead]

It doesn't have to be "perfect" to be regarded as magnificent and certainly one of the cornerstone progressive rock albums of all time. I don't understand this need to talk in absolutes, both negatively and positively. It has some weak spots--More Fool Me, the way too wordy,busy and meandering Epping Forest. I think Trick of the Tail is a stronger overall album. Lets just enjoy the greatness without the burden of claimed "perfection".

This ^^^^
is absolutely correct!

[Man In The Mountain]

Yes. I would put it at the top of the very best prog albums ever.

I'm not too sure about Epping Forest though. Too wordy, and doesn't really have a good high point of anticipation.

[feldman]

Yes. I would put it at the top of the very best prog albums ever.

I'm not too sure about Epping Forest though. Too wordy, and doesn't really have a good high point of anticipation.

I used to think Epping Forest is a dud. But then listening to it intently last night, well, it is just perfect. Everything on that album is very musical, melodic, rich, elaborate, executed with passion. My personal favourite is "After the Ordeal". I can't recall ever hearing music like that, from any composer/band.

[bill g]

I used to think Epping Forest is a dud. But then listening to it intently last night, well, it is just perfect. Everything on that album is very musical, melodic, rich, elaborate, executed with passion. My personal favourite is "After the Ordeal". I can't recall ever hearing music like that, from any composer/band.

I'm with you, though I find myself concentrating on the instrumental work over the vocals. Absolutely love 'After The Ordeal'. I've heard nothing like it as well. That, Firth of Fifth and Cinema Show make for a stunning nucleus for sure.

[mogrooves]

I rate it last of the Gabriel era (I might even prefer ToTT to it]

I used to think Epping Forest is a dud.

I still do. A trainwreck.

[Nearfest2]

I'm not too sure about Epping Forest though. Too wordy, and doesn't really have a good high point of anticipation.

This is the song that holds back the album for me. "More Fool Me" is unnecessary as well, but it's fine. I certainly never go out of my way to listen to it.

[markwoll]

Nah, really really good though.

Close to the Edge ( even the Wilson-ified )

[feldman]

Nah, really really good though.

Close to the Edge ( even the Wilson-ified )

Yeah, I was thinking about Close to the Edge too. It appears very close to perfection. Not a weak moment on it.

Still, doesn't do anything for me. Laves me totally cold. Go figure.

[Zappathustra]

The answer to your question is: sure, why not? It is a matter of taste obviously, but this album belongs to the core of 20-30 albums that one can refer to as the most defining, influential and "perfect" of the genre.

But, taking in mind what you've been writing in the other thread you started, I would suggest you avoid three common mistakes that at least I - and I believe many others - have made in the past.

1. Progressive rock is not just symphonic-prog. The range is far, far wider than what Genesis or ELP did. This is just a slice of the pie.

2. Progressive Rock is not just a UK phenomenon. There were huge musicians in other parts of the planet, actually all over the planet, that were equally good.

3. Progressive rock did not stop in 1976. There is a continuity in ambitious, adventurous rock music that reaches our own days.

But the main misconception is the first. If you are determined to explore progressive music in this wider sense, you'll be surprised to discover a lot of music that reached the same heights that Genesis did. Stick around, there are people here with immense knowledge and passion for the music, who can help you in such an exploration. Obviously if you are willing to do it.

[feldman]

The answer to your question is: sure, why not? It is a matter of taste obviously, but this album belongs to the core of 20-30 albums that one can refer to as the most defining, influential and "perfect" of the genre.

But, taking in mind what you've been writing in the other thread you started, I would suggest you avoid three common mistakes that at least I - and I believe many others - have made in the past.

1. Progressive rock is not just symphonic-prog. The range is far, far wider than what Genesis or ELP did. This is just a slice of the pie.

2. Progressive Rock is not just a UK phenomenon. There were huge musicians in other parts of the planet, actually all over the planet, that were equally good.

3. Progressive rock did not stop in 1976. There is a continuity in ambitious, adventurous rock music that reaches our own days.

But the main misconception is the first. If you are determined to explore progressive music in this wider sense, you'll be surprised to discover a lot of music that reached the same heights that Genesis did. Stick around, there are people here with immense knowledge and passion for the music, who can help you in such an exploration. Obviously if you are willing to do it.

Good points. I took extra care to emphasize the fact that I've reached this conclusion based on my meagre collection of Prog music. Obviously, other unexplored gems abound. Which is why it's great to be the member of the community of knowledgeable people who can show us how the other side lives.

[Gerhard]

2. Progressive Rock is not just a UK phenomenon. There were huge musicians in other parts of the planet, actually all over the planet, that were equally good.

Or even other planets altogether (e.g., Saturn, Kobaia, etc.)

[Zappathustra]

Or even other planets altogether (e.g., Saturn, Kobaia, etc.)