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Thread: Is Genesis "Selling England by the Pound" the most perfect Prog album ever?

  1. #51
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    [PEDANT] It can't be most perfect, its either perfect or not perfect[/PEDANT]

    It's not even my favorite Genesis album, that would be Foxtrot. Personally I'd go with Close To The Edge, Animals, Larks Tongues In Aspic, Godbluff, Ommadawn, Rotters Club.
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  2. #52
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeFrog View Post
    I agree with you for what it's worth. I'm also quite certain you would have found many others to agree with you on other prog sites. But, hey, this is PE, the place where they can actually give you a list of 50 RIO albums that are so much better than SEBTP
    I managed to hold myself back
    Ian

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  3. #53
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    [PEDANT] It can't be most perfect, its either perfect or not perfect[/PEDANT]
    Tell it to those guys who wrote the United States Constitution.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    I managed to hold myself back
    Your self restraint is admirable.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Triscuits View Post
    Tell it to those guys who wrote the United States Constitution.
    I think they're dead.
    Ian

    I blame Wynton, what was the question?
    There are only 10 types of people in the World, those who understand binary and those that don't.

  6. #56
    Member bill g's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by feldman View Post
    I used to think Epping Forest is a dud. But then listening to it intently last night, well, it is just perfect. Everything on that album is very musical, melodic, rich, elaborate, executed with passion. My personal favourite is "After the Ordeal". I can't recall ever hearing music like that, from any composer/band.
    I'm with you, though I find myself concentrating on the instrumental work over the vocals. Absolutely love 'After The Ordeal'. I've heard nothing like it as well. That, Firth of Fifth and Cinema Show make for a stunning nucleus for sure.

  7. #57
    Member BobM's Avatar
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    I think taken as a whole I prefer a concept album for prog, so my vote would go to Lamb, or perhaps Nektar's Remember the Future, or Oldfield's Amarok or countless others over Selling England. That being said, I would consider it a very hard choice to put something like Supper's Ready over Close to the Edge as the best prog "song", and there's many more songs that could be added to that list like some things by the Flower Kings, or Crimson, or Floyd, or Porcupine Tree, or Renaissance, or etc.
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  8. #58
    Member wideopenears's Avatar
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    It's a great album, for sure.
    But, to me, Close to the Edge is the apex of "Prog Rock." Most folks call it symphonic, and I would agree, but I would also say that limits it to some degree. There's nothing remotely "pop" about it, no standard "song structures," and I hear clear jazz influences, as well. It's also psychedelic as hell. I have played it at least 1,000 times and it keeps my interest, decades later, all the way through. Very few albums do that for me.
    "And this is the chorus.....or perhaps it's a bridge...."

  9. #59
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    I think they're dead.
    Just because they said "more perfect"? Harsh.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by BobM View Post
    I think taken as a whole I prefer a concept album for prog, so my vote would go to Lamb, or perhaps Nektar's Remember the Future, or Oldfield's Amarok or countless others over Selling England. That being said, I would consider it a very hard choice to put something like Supper's Ready over Close to the Edge as the best prog "song", and there's many more songs that could be added to that list like some things by the Flower Kings, or Crimson, or Floyd, or Porcupine Tree, or Renaissance, or etc.
    Is "Selling England..." a concept album? Interesting question. Some people muse that it might be, focusing on 'englishness'. What I really like about that album is how it closes with extending the segment that was introduced during the album opening. It does not fall for the foolish consistency and slavishly mimic the opening segment. Instead, it riffs off it -- a brilliant example of perfection in musicianship. Ten stars from me!

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by feldman View Post
    Is "Selling England..." a concept album? Interesting question. Some people muse that it might be, focusing on 'englishness'. What I really like about that album is how it closes with extending the segment that was introduced during the album opening. It does not fall for the foolish consistency and slavishly mimic the opening segment. Instead, it riffs off it -- a brilliant example of perfection in musicianship. Ten stars from me!
    You like that word "perfection" don't you? Like previously mentioned, hard to top "perfect" if you are looking for only that in other prog albums especially if you want to explore newer more recent music in various genres, like your hip hop/prog hybrid for example ....

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by DocProgger View Post
    You like that word "perfection" don't you? Like previously mentioned, hard to top "perfect" if you are looking for only that in other prog albums especially if you want to explore newer more recent music in various genres, like your hip hop/prog hybrid for example ....
    To my way of thinking, life is too short to waste it on anything less than perfect.

  13. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by feldman View Post
    To my way of thinking, life is too short to waste it on anything less than perfect.

    I see. Well, good luck with that quest feldman.

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by DocProgger View Post
    I see. Well, good luck with that quest feldman.
    Thank you. There are over 7 billion people on the planet today, at least a couple of billion working on all kinds of things. Statistically speaking there's gotta be a few perfect products out there. I remember the band called the Beatles -- they produced some perfect songs.

  15. #65
    No. "Epping Forest" is a two minute joke that drags on for nearly 12 minutes, and "More Fool Me" is a fairly maudlin piece. I'm not sure there is a "perfect Prog album". I would probably put Close to the Edge and Thick as a Brick higher than Selling England, but even with those two there are significant flaws (Siberian Khatru is not anywhere close to the other 2 songs on CTTE, and the first part of the second side of TAAB is a bit slow, for instance)
    "And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision."

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  16. #66
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by feldman View Post
    To my way of thinking, life is too short to waste it on anything less than perfect.
    Thats a bizarre approach, this thing is stupendously wonderful but not quite perfect, I'm going to ignore it and keep looking.
    Ian

    I blame Wynton, what was the question?
    There are only 10 types of people in the World, those who understand binary and those that don't.

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    Thats a bizarre approach, this thing is stupendously wonderful but not quite perfect, I'm going to ignore it and keep looking.
    Please share your findings.

  18. #68
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    Not sure, but I have a T-shirt of this album cover on right now. So the answer is: my shirt is great and will need a wash after today.
    If it isn't Krautrock, it's krap.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dark Elf View Post
    No. "Epping Forest" is a two minute joke that drags on for nearly 12 minutes, and "More Fool Me" is a fairly maudlin piece. I'm not sure there is a "perfect Prog album". I would probably put Close to the Edge and Thick as a Brick higher than Selling England, but even with those two there are significant flaws (Siberian Khatru is not anywhere close to the other 2 songs on CTTE, and the first part of the second side of TAAB is a bit slow, for instance)
    Yep.
    If it isn't Krautrock, it's krap.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by feldman View Post
    Please share your findings.
    Life is a series of compromises.
    Ian

    I blame Wynton, what was the question?
    There are only 10 types of people in the World, those who understand binary and those that don't.

  21. #71
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    SEBTP is an excellent album but not my fav of Genesis. Comes in about fourth of theirs. Shows the incredible work they did over a period of years

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by The Dark Elf View Post
    No. "Epping Forest" is a two minute joke that drags on for nearly 12 minutes, and "More Fool Me" is a fairly maudlin piece. I'm not sure there is a "perfect Prog album". I would probably put Close to the Edge and Thick as a Brick higher than Selling England, but even with those two there are significant flaws (Siberian Khatru is not anywhere close to the other 2 songs on CTTE, and the first part of the second side of TAAB is a bit slow, for instance)
    Can't find much fault with "Thick as a Brick", but it's more like a string of standalone rock songs that weave in and out, than a monolithic piece of symphony-like composition. As such, I view it more like the best Jethro Tull album in terms of quality of songs. I don't really see it as Prog, more like regular rock-pop. Nothing wrong with that, in my book.

  23. #73
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    It's a great album, but I've never cared much for Epping, and while I don't really mind I Know What I Like, I don't think it fits well with the rest of the album. I rank Foxtrot higher, and possibly Nursery Cryme as well. I prefer the somewhat less polished sound of those two. But I love all three albums.

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    It's a great album, but I've never cared much for Epping, and while I don't really mind I Know What I Like, I don't think it fits well with the rest of the album. I rank Foxtrot higher, and possibly Nursery Cryme as well. I prefer the somewhat less polished sound of those two. But I love all three albums.
    Curious about your ranking of Foxtrot. For some reason, I was never able to get into that one. What should I pay attention when listening to that album? I wanna give it another chance...

  25. #75
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    Life is a series of compromises.
    I watch TV, and the commercials have taught me that compromise is a bad thing and should never be done. I am now a wise man.
    "If you want to see the true nature of humanity, just look at the internet."

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