Genesis Calling all Stations

[Splicer]

This contradicts the fact that they had picked Wilson from the start.

That's new information for me and definitely puts the kibosh on my speculation.

[LeFrog]

That's new information for me and definitely puts the kibosh on my speculation.

Everything Longdon had to say about his experience is here:

http://www.dusk.it/david_longdon_exc..._interview.htm

Very interesting read IMO.

[JIF]

It is also my understanding that Gilbert was never seriously considered, and that the whole "he would have had the job if he had lived" thing is mostly wishful thinking.
But I think the Ray issue is more complicated. David Longdon, now singer with Big Big Train, revealed a few years back that he was auditioned for the job, and he gave a lot of informations that had never filtered out before. According to Longdon, he and Wilson were retained as the last two candidates. Apparently the band had a hard time chosing between the two and had them both record tracks for several weeks, before finally settling for Wilson. This contradicts the fact that they had picked Wilson from the start.

I thought it was down to Wilson and the singer from The Cutting Crew?

[80s were ok]

At one point, Fish was being considered, at least according to Fish.

[LeFrog]

At one point, Fish was being considered, at least according to Fish.

I suggest you read the Longdon interview.

He confirms that Nick Van Eede (Cutting Crew) auditioned, as well as Francis Dunnery. He also confirms Fish was mentioned, but has no knowledge of Fish auditioning, and I don't think Fish ever said he did.

[Scott Bails]

I suggest you read the Longdon interview.

He confirms that Nick Van Eede (Cutting Crew) auditioned, as well as Francis Dunnery. He also confirms Fish was mentioned, but has no knowledge of Fish auditioning, and I don't think Fish ever said he did.

I was always under the impression that guys like Fish and Paul Carrack were considered but never made it to the audition stage.

[80s were ok]

I suggest you read the Longdon interview.

He confirms that Nick Van Eede (Cutting Crew) auditioned, as well as Francis Dunnery. He also confirms Fish was mentioned, but has no knowledge of Fish auditioning, and I don't think Fish ever said he did.

easy there, just going by what I remember from 1997.

[LeFrog]

easy there, just going by what I remember from 1997.

Sorry, I realise my post came across as aggressive. That was not my intention. I was just suggesting that this interview was a very interesting read and likely to answer many questions raised here, if you have time to read it.
No offense meant...

[Scott Bails]

Just got through that interview, LeFrog - really interesting. Some great insights into the whole audition process that I'd never heard about before.

Thanks for sharing.

[ThomasKDye]

Just got through that interview, LeFrog - really interesting.

Agreed, it's totally fascinating. Longden seems like a really nice guy... and I'm starting to think I should give BBT another chance.

[Splicer]

...as well as Francis Dunnery.

This would have been a very interesting and possibly successful choice. Good songwriter, good singer and incredible guitar player. Then again, the incredible guitar player part would have probably not sat well with Mr. Rutherford.

[JJ88]

I've always felt they didn't want a 'star' replacing Phil Collins because a 'star' brings with them their own demands, in some ways, in terms of wanting to contribute material etc. Anyway I don't feel the problem was ever Ray Wilson, who is one of the album's assets. I can hear why he was chosen on songs like 'There Must Be Some Other Way'.

Hiring Fish may have backfired on them at the time, given what some feel about Marillion and Genesis.

[ThomasKDye]

One other thing I want to add is that when I heard about CAS for the first time, I had really LOW expectations. I didn't know Ray Wilson from a hole in the ground, and one website said, in a sneak-preview article, that "comparisons to Mike and the Mechanics are not unwarranted but Tony Banks' keyboards throw it all off" (paraphrase). I totally thought they were going to go with a "white soul" singer like Paul Carrack and make the equivalent of Traffic's "Far From Home."

So imagine how blown away I was when I heard that heavy-ass guitar kick in (when has Mike Rutherford ever done THAT??!) to be accompanied shortly by Wilson's husky dramatics. The darkness of the album design also influenced my mood, too. "Okay... this isn't what I expected." Except for "Congo" and "Not About Us" (suddenly Rutherford found his acoustic guitar again! What a coincidence) which both sounded like attempts to be contemporary, it was clear Genesis was going on a different direction entirely. I was impressed. Maybe "Hey, at least they didn't totally sell out" isn't the best argument for an album, but the temptation must have been there. Even Banks had gone fluffy occasionally on his previous two solo albums. I was really happy to get the depth of sound that I got on that album; it felt, to me, like they were born again, fade-outs or no fade-outs.

[JJ88]

I think 'If That's What You Need' is very much like an album-filler of the kind Mike and the Mechanics come up with, amongst the strong singles of theirs.

Starting with the title track was a very good move, I remember being very surprised as well when I first played it. As I said though I stopped the album after the first minute of 'Alien Afternoon' for the first few listens!

[Harbottle]

At one point, Fish was being considered, at least according to Fish.

Would it be called Genefish?

[Scott Bails]

Would it be called Genefish?

Well, Marillion was already taken.

[JIF]

I suggest you read the Longdon interview.

He confirms that Nick Van Eede (Cutting Crew) auditioned, as well as Francis Dunnery. He also confirms Fish was mentioned, but has no knowledge of Fish auditioning, and I don't think Fish ever said he did.

Based on his performances on Genesis Revisited 2, I think that Francis should've gotten the job.

[dpt3]

I don't have a problem with Ray Wilson at all, but either Dunnery or Longdon seem like they would've been much more natural choices, to me.

[Splicer]

This thread prompted me to listen to CAS again -- and this is after many years of ignoring it completely. I guess the years have softened my opinion a bit and I hear a lot of merit here. I still think most of the record contains incomplete ideas or one that should have been left on the cutting room floor. However, I feel the same way about most of WCD.

One of the things I didn't notice before but strike me now about CAS and its predecessor is that some of the songwriting is a bit too referential to things that have gone before -- repetitive in a way. On WCD has one song that purposely quotes an old song, the chorus of "Fading Lights" quoting "Ripples", but there is also "Living Forever" which at times comes across as sounding like "Home by the Sea, Jr". I hear the same sort of thing happening on CAS. Although I like "There Must Be Some Other Way", it does sound a bit like the Mike & Mechanics' "Can You Hear Me" especially during the verses. At least the first part of "One Man's Fool" (which I think is a terrific song) sounds to my ear like Son of "In the Glow of the Night" plus I'm not sure who is playing drums on this track but it has some extremely Collins-like moments.

[SteveSly]

It is also my understanding that Gilbert was never seriously considered, and that the whole "he would have had the job if he had lived" thing is mostly wishful thinking.
But I think the Ray issue is more complicated. David Longdon, now singer with Big Big Train, revealed a few years back that he was auditioned for the job, and he gave a lot of informations that had never filtered out before. According to Longdon, he and Wilson were retained as the last two candidates. Apparently the band had a hard time chosing between the two and had them both record tracks for several weeks, before finally settling for Wilson. This contradicts the fact that they had picked Wilson from the start.

I am pretty sure I remember reading that Fish from Marillion was also auditioned. There were others too, but I am drawing a blank at the moment.

Steve Sly

[Ken Baird]

One other thing I want to add is that when I heard about CAS for the first time, I had really LOW expectations. I didn't know Ray Wilson from a hole in the ground, and one website said, in a sneak-preview article, that "comparisons to Mike and the Mechanics are not unwarranted but Tony Banks' keyboards throw it all off" (paraphrase). I totally thought they were going to go with a "white soul" singer like Paul Carrack and make the equivalent of Traffic's "Far From Home."

So imagine how blown away I was when I heard that heavy-ass guitar kick in (when has Mike Rutherford ever done THAT??!) to be accompanied shortly by Wilson's husky dramatics. The darkness of the album design also influenced my mood, too. "Okay... this isn't what I expected." Except for "Congo" and "Not About Us" (suddenly Rutherford found his acoustic guitar again! What a coincidence) which both sounded like attempts to be contemporary, it was clear Genesis was going on a different direction entirely. I was impressed. Maybe "Hey, at least they didn't totally sell out" isn't the best argument for an album, but the temptation must have been there. Even Banks had gone fluffy occasionally on his previous two solo albums. I was really happy to get the depth of sound that I got on that album; it felt, to me, like they were born again, fade-outs or no fade-outs.

This is a pretty cool way to look at the album.

[JKL2000]

Finally had a second listen to this album today. Man, it's pretty crappy. It's weird how many songs are kind of pleasant but never rise above that.

[JKL2000]

Was Banjo Man a b-side? I assume so. I really like the song - does anyone know why the remaster in the box set didn’t include it? Are there other b-sides from CAS that weren’t included?

[Progatron]

Was Banjo Man a b-side? I assume so. I really like the song - does anyone know why the remaster in the box set didn’t include it? Are there other b-sides from CAS that weren’t included?

Yes, Banjo Man was on the Congo single.

There were eight b-sides and non-album tracks from CAS:

Papa He Said
Banjo Man
Anything Now
Phret
7/8
Sign Your Life Away
Nowhere Else To Turn
Run Out Of Time

... I'm not sure why they only included three on that box. They could have at least included Nowhere Else To Turn, since it was never officially released anywhere. Personally, my favourite is Sign Your Life Away, but a lot of people find it too poppy and commercial.

[aith01]

Yes, Banjo Man was on the Congo single.

There were eight b-sides and non-album tracks from CAS:

Papa He Said
Banjo Man
Anything Now
Phret
7/8
Sign Your Life Away
Nowhere Else To Turn
Run Out Of Time

... I'm not sure why they only included three on that box. They could have at least included Nowhere Else To Turn, since it was never officially released anywhere. Personally, my favourite is Sign Your Life Away, but a lot of people find it too poppy and commercial.

I love "Anything Now" and "Sign Your Life Away". The former sounded a lot like vintage Genesis (albeit with an unusual piano solo from Tony during the bridge), while the latter sounded like them trying a couple new things. "Run Out Of Time" was never a huge fave of mine.

I've never heard the others though.