A valid comparison.Originally Posted by 80s were ok
A valid comparison.
Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally
A lot of the songs on the previous 4 albums also faded out, so it's not like it was only in the Wilson-Era of music. Banks and Rutherford had been doing it with Collins for over a decade and a half.
I have a special sentiment for this album, as well as it's B-Sides. There's a sort of AOR-ness to it that reminds me of bands like Asia, GPS, etc., the type of straight-ahead rock with a prog-tinge, rather than being a prog band with a pop-tinge. Then again, Genesis were already moving towards that sound anyway, especially by WCD.
That being said, there are some GREAT tracks on this album, especially the longer ones, but that's always been the case with Genesis albums, hasn't it?
-Marc.
If you are presenting sarcasm I agree. IMO the fade out on Supper's Ready works well. It is certainly not abrupt in the way that several of the fades on CAS are. To me, the fades on CAS don't really hurt the songs overall, but I can see where some would say that they kind of come out of nowhere.
Good call
Compare John Burns fade on Supper to the title cut on CAS as an illustration
BG
"When Yes appeared on stage, it was like, the gods appearing from the heavens, deigning to play in front of the people."
I have never really cared that much for Calling All Stations, but I do own it and after reading this thread I decided to give it a fresh listen. Still don't care for the song Congo but I have to admit having an enjoyable listen.
This one is much better than I remember it being, it will never be a Genesis favorite for me but it's not bad. After all Banks & Rutherford are still in the band so there is some quality here.
I can't see how anybody can listen to the way particularly 'Calling All Stations' and 'Congo' fade and think, 'yeah, that's a natural ending!'. I see no comparison with 'Supper's Ready' at all.
I don't like 'Congo' anyway. I remember hearing that on the album when I got a copy of it 8/9 years ago- I'd heard the album in a record shop when it came out but I was young then, so remembered little!- and being stunned that they ever felt that could be a single. Indeed I don't think there was a hit single anywhere on the album; not a problem in itself, but some ballads on there were too middle-of-the-road to get the older fans back IMHO so as an album it doesn't really satisfy many people that much, I don't think. A shame because the potential was there on the best songs.
Last edited by JJ88; 02-16-2013 at 02:23 PM.
Tony Banks discussed the whole "fade out" issue in Chapter and Verse. If you don't own it, it's well worth the investment.
They called this a Genesis album but it should have came with a warning lable....
LOL - I own the book, but don't think I've ever read it
It was a Christmas gift from my wife or possibly kids many years ago
BG
"When Yes appeared on stage, it was like, the gods appearing from the heavens, deigning to play in front of the people."
The big deal is that I don't like it. Period.
Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.
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Whatever ANYONE says -- "One Man's Fool" would have been a killer live tune. The studio version already gets my adrenaline up as the drums speed up, but then to downshift into the final "To all of those who think that they know..." -- a wonderful Banksian chord change, that -- it fries my synapses into euphoria. Rutherford's chimy guitar line as the song fades out just adds icing to the cake.
And yes, THIS song can be said to fade out a la "Supper's Ready." Both songs reach a sort of spiritual high... one just doesn't have Steve Hackett's eloquence to close the final sale, that's all.
Played this album a lot when it first came out, but beyond that, hasn't really stood the test of time for me (along with every studi album after Abacab).
I agree with some of the others about the fade outs. I am not against fade outs if they work with the song, but on this album they just seem kind of awkward. As someone else mentioned some of the songs seem unfinished and the fade outs just sound like running out of ideas, and don't really work. For me there are 4 great tunes on this album: “Alien Afternoon”, “The Dividing Line”, “Uncertain Weather”, and “One Man’s Fool”. The rest of it is pretty mediocre to my ears (although the single “Congo” was catchy). I think they just tried to play it too safe and middle of the road, but it is not a terrible album.
Steve Sly
Yeah, those are the four that I return to again and again as well. All four have an "emotional momentum" that's lacking in the other songs, in my opinion. The title song gets going a little when Wilson belts it out at the end ("COULD SO EASILY BE TAKEN! AND IT'S TEARING ME APART!") but the opening plods so much it's too little, too late. "There Must Be Some Other Way," once a favorite, just seems overlong to me now, and not in a good way.
But I'd rank the four songs mentioned as at the very least as good as or better than half their Abacab-WCD output.
Here's my alternate version playlist of this album for anyone who cares. It works so much better for me personally, and I shortened the fadeout on the title track.
The Dividing Line
Uncertain Weather
Small Talk
There Must Be Some Other Way
Phret
Alien Afternoon
Sign Your Life Away
Not About Us
Congo
Calling All Stations
Shipwrecked
One Man's Fool
Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.
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Always liked this album better than We Can't Dance, it just has more edge and is more interesting to me. I agree with Thomas about 'One Man's Fool'. That is a great song, and I quite like the title track and 'Uncertain Weather'. The other one I really like is 'Run Out of Time', a b-side that should have made the album. The other really good b side is 'Anything Now'. As to 'Congo', it sounds like it should have fit in with the alternative stuff of the day, but somehow didn't. The single version is poor, cutting out the best parts of the song. 'Alien Afternoon' isn't bad either, although, like 'Dividing Line', I think there could have been more to it, but 'Dividing Line' is the one song that doesn't fade out, not that I really mind that a whole lot personally.
Again though, like the more poppy 'We Cant Dance', the album needed a good instrumental. The passage in 'There Must Be Some Other Way' is good, but they needed more. Something beautiful and poignant, like the music on Tony's latest album would have been great, done as a band.
And that's what's so funny, because except for "Fading Lights", which is and will always be my all-time favorite song, the rest of WCD is like musical wallpaper. Even IT has more dynamism and passion. "Living Forever" and "On the Shoreline" (a B-side!!) are okay, and "Dreaming While You Sleep" is sort of eerie, but then you have Phil singing "Tell Me Why" and "Way of the World" like he's on valium and Tony Banks playing the most wispy, inconsequential chord changes ever. Even "Jesus He Knows Me" is pretty low-key for all the satirical qualities of the song. Even at the time, when I was a hard-core Genesis fanboy and would have listened to the three of them singing the alphabet song, I found it to be really dry and perfunctory. It was as if no one wanted to step on anyone else's toes so they played it excruciatingly safe.
CAS kicked everything up, in my opinion; Ray Wilson's earnestly husky vocal delivery automatically upgraded the material, which was decidedly darker and more atmospheric than its predecessor. It just seemed deeper and more intense than anything Genesis had put out since "Duke" (I'm not saying musically better -- there's a difference). But when I read the album's reviews, I felt like I'd been teleported to a strange alternate dimension where people thought relatively highly of the Abacab-WCD material but thought CAS was irredeemable crap. I mean, no. If WCD had as much depth as CAS I would definitely have liked it better at the time.
No love for "Driving The Last Spike"? One of my all time favorite Genesis tracks and for me the high point of "We Can't Dance".
Steve Sly
Totally agreed. That is a good example of Phil stretching out a bit lyrically. Sure, he chose a rather specific subject based on a book he read about railway 'navvies' in England but that track really works for me musically and lyrically. And he really gives it his all with the line "I'll never forget that night... as they waved... goodbye... to their FAAATHHEEEEEEEERRRRRSSSSSSSSSSSSSS......." and "...they'll never see the likes of us... AGAAAAAIIIIINNNNN....." - goosebump moments for me. I really enjoyed it live too on that tour, as well as "Dreaming While You Sleep" which someone mentioned earlier. Mike's lyric that time but also strong, especially with Phil acting the part of the guilt-riddled bedside attendee singing "please, please, please, open your eyes..." - another goosebump moment. WCD is far stronger than it gets credit for, it just happens to have a handful of skippers.
Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.
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It IS a good track, definitely, yes. When I was listening to the album more often, it was the highlight of side one for me for the reasons Progatron mentioned (thought I thought the final "Can you hear me?" was a bit anticlimactic). But I think it never connected with me for the reasons "Epping Forest" doesn't connect with other Genesis fans -- it's very wordy and sells a lot of its emotional impact mostly via the lyrics, whereas "Fading Lights" had a sublime instrumental section that did some heavy lifting without words. After a while, because it was sandwiched between two "meh" songs I just never felt the need to go dig it out.
But at any rate, the song certainly isn't "wallpaper" so I'll put that on the WCD high points list.
It is wordy, yes, but the words aren't jammed into too small a space as with "Epping".* And because it is a story song, I suppose much of the emotional impact would come from the lyrics, although I also happen to really like the music. I'll tell you one thing I hated though: the single edit that came out around that time which was a horribly butchered version beginning with Mike's guitar leading into "we worked, how we worked like the devil for our pay..." - really? You chopped a ten minute track into about four minutes? Silliness.
* - disclaimer: I love "Epping Forest". Every time the subject comes up here, people get all riled up like someone killed their child. It just ain't a perfect song, simple as that. The music and lyrics don't match, and it suffers for it. All five band members confirm this in interviews. But I love it anyway and would never skip it.
Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.
*** Join me in the Garden of Delights for 3 hours of tune-spinning... every Saturday at 5pm EST on Deep Nuggets radio! www.deepnuggets.com ***
My fave post so far. I happen to agree with Mr. Dye on everything he said. We Can't Play.......I mean Dance is a complete snoozefest. I owned it and dumped it and then inherited it from my g/f after meeting her and NEVER play it. I kinda tolerate the live versions from The Way We Walk vhs tape I have,but outside of the self-saving Fading Lights I'm just bored. It would be an exercise in banality to list all the songs I can't bother with so I will spare you all. I'm not sure why but I also prefer Invisible Touch,Genesis and Abacab,but prefer Calling All Stations over all of the forelisted. Fadeouts be damned,these songs were somewhat adventurous and proggy except Small Talk,which I find way too much like 80's/90's Peter Gabriel for it's own good.
'We Can't Dance' is too long. I rate 'No Son Of Mine', 'Jesus He Knows Me', 'Driving The Last Spike', 'Dreaming While You Sleep' and 'Fading Lights'. The title track, 'Living Forever' and 'Hold On My Heart' are OK. But the other tracks are amongst the worst Genesis have ever recorded IMHO...'Never A Time' and 'Way Of The World' especially. Those are amongst the very few Genesis songs I skip over ('Small Talk', 'If That's What You Need', 'Who Dunnit' and 'Anything She Does' are others!).
Last edited by JJ88; 02-17-2013 at 07:30 AM.
Agree about it being too long. DTLS and DWYS are the reasons for that. Those 2 songs just keep meandering all over the place,one movement after another and never going anywhere. Btw,I like Who Dunnit? The live version with Mike on drums is priceless,that guy can keep time pretty good. I think Driving While You Sleep would have made a better title. lol
Agree about it being too long. DTLS and DWYS are the reasons for that. Those 2 songs just keep meandering all over the place,one movement after another and never going anywhere. Btw,I like Who Dunnit? The live version with Mike on drums is priceless,that guy can keep time pretty good. I think Driving While You Sleep would have made a better title. lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=8R6qu62xekE
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