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Thread: Supertramp - Brother Where You Bound

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlneudorf View Post
    Heard 'Crime' the year it came out and was hooked. Has remained one of my all time faves.
    I must written this dozens of times both here and in PA, but COTC was the very first album I ever bought with my own money from newspaper delivery routes and I was only 11. Next to my school was a record shop and when I saw COTC in the window when released , next day I had the money to buy it. It's still in my top 10.

    Never had that kind of love for other Supertramp albums., but COTC certainly steered me in the right direction

    Quote Originally Posted by mozo-pg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by LeFrog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mozo-pg View Post
    I have to go back and revisit their Debut. Is that the one with the women on the cover?
    The first one has a flower with a face on the cover. It's probably their most prog album with Richard Palmer-James of King Crimson fame playing guitar. It's lacking melody wise compared to their classic albums, though.
    Thanks. I think I own it but wasn't that interested. Still, need to revisit the debut.
    The debut is absolutely wonderful, maybe their proggiest, though one shouldn't expect what you hear in the classic line-up

    Davies only sings lead on two tracks and Palmer James on another two, the rest is handled by Hodgson.

    here is a rare view of the first incarnation - still called daddy at the time. (Russian site, so don't stray too far away from the videos)

    https://vk.com/video-101936_164243546

    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mozo-pg View Post
    I prefer Rick's more progressive sounding contribution to the band, including his vocals instead of the light pop of the band. Still, I'm a Roger fan and have great seats to see him this October.
    Roger also wrote some of their most progressive sounding music, things like Fool's Overture. But they're both brilliant pop songwriters too, IMO (or at least were at one time).
    Yeah, I really can't say who was the proggier of the two, one having written Rudy, the other Fool's Overture.... To me it's a draw

    Even when they grew apart, Rick's Brother was about as proggy at the band ever got, while Roger's eye wasn't too shabby either.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

  2. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    The debut is absolutely wonderful, maybe their proggiest, though one shouldn't expect what you hear in the classic line-up

    Davies only sings lead on two tracks and Palmer James on another two, the rest is handled by Hodgson.
    Unless I'm mistaken, Davies doesn't sing lead AT ALL on the debut.
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    Unless I'm mistaken, Davies doesn't sing lead AT ALL on the debut.
    there is one track where it's nearly impossible to tellwhether it's Davies or Palmer-James...

    A Belgian TV technician buddy of mine ran it through a spectrometer and another Davies song and a Palmer-Lames one, and he seems adamant that it's Davies' vocals

    here is a conversation we had in ProgArchives.
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  4. #79
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    I've always found the debut somewhat 'second division' compared with what followed. Not as sharp melodically and rough around the edges.

    Crime Of The Century was a quantum leap and it needed to be, given that their previous two albums had done very little.

  5. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    there is one track where it's nearly impossible to tellwhether it's Davies or Palmer-James...

    A Belgian TV technician buddy of mine ran it through a spectrometer and another Davies song and a Palmer-Lames one, and he seems adamant that it's Davies' vocals.
    OK, gave it a brief listen... It is Davies singing "Shadow Song", albeit above his usual range. He can also be considered co-lead vocalist on "Nothing To Show". And it's Palmer(-James) on "Maybe I'm A Beggar". The rest is Hodgson.
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  6. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    Unless I'm mistaken, Davies doesn't sing lead AT ALL on the debut.
    He doubles with Hodgson throughout the whole of "Nothing to Show".

    That debut Supertramp is seriously underrated, as far as I'm concerned. It fits neatly with the spirit of post-psychedelic, vintage (1969-71) UK progressive (Skin Alley, Indian Summer, Tonton Macoute, Mighty Baby, Room, Hannibal etc.) before the term itself was retroactively reduced to something altogether much more limiting. Tracks like "It's a Long Road" and that ecstatic buildup-theme followed by the jam in "Try Again" attest to the adolescent joys of controlling the forces of electric sound; naíve as hell, but recognizable in feel to anyone who has ever played in an amateur rock band.

    Later 'tramp were perfectionist and bottom-solid, corporate art-rock/pop fanfares, but thereby obviously losing the "garage" antic and sumptously juvenile pretensions of the first one.
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  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    OK, gave it a brief listen... It is Davies singing "Shadow Song", albeit above his usual range. He can also be considered co-lead vocalist on "Nothing To Show". And it's Palmer(-James) on "Maybe I'm A Beggar". The rest is Hodgson.
    Agree with all of the above except that it's Palmer singing Shadow Song.

  8. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by LeFrog View Post
    Agree with all of the above except that it's Palmer singing Shadow Song.
    Sounds like a different voice to "Maybe I'm A Beggar", and the fact that the set-up is lead vocals/piano lends credence to the Davies option imho. I do find similarities with Davies which I absolutely don't hear in "Maybe I'm A Beggar".
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  9. #84
    The issue has been discussed on ProgArchives, with the OP citing an interview with Richard Palmer-James himself who cites Rick Davies as the lead vocalist on "Shadow Song". I am inclined to believe him...

    http://www.progarchives.com/forum/fo....asp?TID=97775
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  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    The issue has been discussed on ProgArchives, with the OP citing an interview with Richard Palmer-James himself who cites Rick Davies as the lead vocalist on "Shadow Song". I am inclined to believe him...

    http://www.progarchives.com/forum/fo....asp?TID=97775
    I'll have to listen to the album again, it's been a while. All my life I thought it was Palmer !

  11. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by LeFrog View Post
    I'll have to listen to the album again, it's been a while. All my life I thought it was Palmer !
    Some people in that thread seem confident it's Palmer despite his own assertion that it's Davies. Like this guy who, rather peremptorily (and falsely, based on some of what the others say) : "About one thing we agree, though: it's not Davies." / "one thing is for sure: that man singing is Palmer !"

    To me it's clear it's not Hodgson (pretty obviously), and not the same vocalist heard in "Maybe I'm A Beggar", who frankly speaking is a pretty bad singer (no wonder he almost exclusively played guitar and wrote lyrics in his subsequent career), with the one in "The Shadow Song" clearly doing a better job (at least his voice doesn't "break" in the upper register like Palmer's does).
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  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    Some people in that thread seem confident it's Palmer despite his own assertion that it's Davies. Like this guy who, rather peremptorily (and falsely, based on some of what the others say) : "About one thing we agree, though: it's not Davies." / "one thing is for sure: that man singing is Palmer !"

    To me it's clear it's not Hodgson (pretty obviously), and not the same vocalist heard in "Maybe I'm A Beggar", who frankly speaking is a pretty bad singer (no wonder he almost exclusively played guitar and wrote lyrics in his subsequent career), with the one in "The Shadow Song" clearly doing a better job (at least his voice doesn't "break" in the upper register like Palmer's does).

    There was nothing contradictory in my so-called peremptory assertion. I said we agreed that Palmer sang Maybe I'm A Beggar, that Davies sang co-lead on Nothing To Show and that the rest was Hodgson. My only disagreement was that I was pretty positive that Palmer sang Shadow Song but that was before you proved otherwise.

    You then misunderstood my last post (a shame between frenchmen!) which wasn't meant to persist in my disagreement. I just meant to say I now need to listen to the album again with the notion that Davies is singing the song because all of my life I wrongly thought it was Palmer, so I need to get used to the idea that it's not him.
    Does that make more sense?
    Last edited by LeFrog; 07-11-2018 at 08:05 AM.

  13. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by LeFrog View Post
    There was nothing contradictory in my so-called peremptory assertion. I said we agreed that Palmer sang Maybe I'm A Beggar, that Davies sang co-lead on Nothing To Show and that the rest was Hodgson. My only disagreement was that I was pretty positive that Palmer sang Shadow Song but you have proven me otherwise.

    You then misunderstood my last post (which is a shame between frenchmen!). I meant to say that you must be right because the proofs you have given are pretty clear, but I now need to listen to the album again with the notion that Davies is singing the song because all of my life I wrongly thought it was Palmer, so I need to get used to the idea that it's not him.
    Does that make more sense?
    I had no idea it was you in that other thread, so I thought I was dealing with two different people with different degrees of confidence about what they asserted. To be honest, the other "you" (!) in that thread I thought was a bit over-confident stating his own beliefs above RPJ's own memory that it was Rick singing, and that it was the same guy singing on both "Maybe I'm A Beggar" and "Shadow Song", which to my ears is clearly not the case.

    I did quote your PE thread comment, but my point was to offer further arguments, not imply that I thought you still hadn't subscribed to my view - which you're in no way obliged to do unless you are convinced by my arguments, which seems to be the case, so all fine by me.
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  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    I had no idea it was you in that other thread, so I thought I was dealing with two different people with different degrees of confidence about what they asserted. To be honest, the other "you" (!) in that thread I thought was a bit over-confident stating his own beliefs above RPJ's own memory that it was Rick singing, and that it was the same guy singing on both "Maybe I'm A Beggar" and "Shadow Song", which to my ears is clearly not the case.

    I did quote your PE thread comment, but my point was to offer further arguments, not imply that I thought you still hadn't subscribed to my view - which you're in no way obliged to do unless you are convinced by my arguments, which seems to be the case, so all fine by me.
    I think there was only me disagreeing about Shadow Song but yes, you convinced me! I still intend to listen to the song again later in the day, it's been years since the last time I played it.

  15. #90
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    ^ and you're speaking to each other in English
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  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrotum Scissor View Post
    That debut Supertramp is seriously underrated, as far as I'm concerned. It fits neatly with the spirit of post-psychedelic, vintage (1969-71) UK progressive (Skin Alley, Indian Summer, Tonton Macoute, Mighty Baby, Room, Hannibal etc.) before the term itself was retroactively reduced to something altogether much more limiting. Tracks like "It's a Long Road" and that ecstatic buildup-theme followed by the jam in "Try Again" attest to the adolescent joys of controlling the forces of electric sound; naíve as hell, but recognizable in feel to anyone who has ever played in an amateur rock band.
    Absolutely agree that their debut could be considered a UK proto-prog album along with the other bands you cite.


    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by LeFrog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    OK, gave it a brief listen... It is Davies singing "Shadow Song", albeit above his usual range. He can also be considered co-lead vocalist on "Nothing To Show". And it's Palmer(-James) on "Maybe I'm A Beggar". The rest is Hodgson.
    Agree with all of the above except that it's Palmer singing Shadow Song.
    Some people in that thread seem confident it's Palmer despite his own assertion that it's Davies. Like this guy who, rather peremptorily (and falsely, based on some of what the others say) : "About one thing we agree, though: it's not Davies." / "one thing is for sure: that man singing is Palmer !"

    To me it's clear it's not Hodgson (pretty obviously), and not the same vocalist heard in "Maybe I'm A Beggar", who frankly speaking is a pretty bad singer (no wonder he almost exclusively played guitar and wrote lyrics in his subsequent career), with the one in "The Shadow Song" clearly doing a better job (at least his voice doesn't "break" in the upper register like Palmer's does).
    my sound engineer buddy ran though Shadow Song.



    Quote Originally Posted by LeFrog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by LeFrog View Post
    My only disagreement was that I was pretty positive that Palmer sang Shadow Song but that was before you proved otherwise.
    I think there was only me disagreeing about Shadow Song but yes, you convinced me! I still intend to listen to the song again later in the day, it's been years since the last time I played it.
    Though I read somewhere that Davies has absolutely no recollection singing Shadow Song... which does not mean he did not do so, just that it does remember it.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from drug-addicts to complete nutcases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chalkpie View Post
    ^ and you're speaking to each other in English
    It doesn't help, though our English is way better than the average frenchman's.

  18. #93
    I always thought it was Rick on "Shadow Song", it does sound very similar to his singing in "Casual Conversations", for example.
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