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Thread: Flower Kings/Kaipa recommendations please

  1. #1

    Flower Kings/Kaipa recommendations please

    I'm enjoying the new The Sea Within album. I also love The Invention of Knowledge. And I also enjoy the first two Transatlantic albums. There seems to be a common factor here in Roine Stolt! But I've never explored Stolt's other works, The Flower Kings or Kaipa, or anything else for that matter. What should I try?

    Thanks.

    Henry
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  2. #2
    I personally think Space Revolver was their finest work but I am 100% certain opinions will vary.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by battema View Post
    I personally think Space Revolver was their finest work but I am 100% certain opinions will vary.
    Very good choice.

    While Space Revolver isn't my personal favorite, it was my introduction to the band and is what led to me getting hooked eventually. The two parts of "I Am The Sun" are great, and then "Chicken Farmer Song" is just a wonderful slice of feel-good psychedelic pop.

    I would suggest Space Revolver, Unfold the Future, and The Sum of No Evil as my top three picks.

  4. #4
    Outraged bystander markwoll's Avatar
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    Maybe in this order, maybe not.
    The Flower King, Meet The Flower Kings @Live, Back In The World Of Adventures, Space Revolver
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by aith01 View Post
    Very good choice.

    While Space Revolver isn't my personal favorite, it was my introduction to the band and is what led to me getting hooked eventually. The two parts of "I Am The Sun" are great, and then "Chicken Farmer Song" is just a wonderful slice of feel-good psychedelic pop.
    I had been listening to them for a bit at that point (first got into them around Stardust and Retropolis and their first PD appearance). For me personally, Space Revolver was a bit unique in that it was succinct and less sprawling. I know we love our long albums in the prog world, but Space Revolver felt tighter, less stretched out. There was (again IMHO) high watermark songwriting from both Stolt + Bodin, and Jonas Reingold made his first and very "defining" appearance on the bass.

    I can't say I'm as big a fan anymore -- for me personally they got a bit too predictable from album to album -- but this was their peak for me.

    (for Henry) Also of note, at least one of the songs from Space Revolver was in fact originally planned for the first Transatlantic but got nixed for whatever reason (Monster Within I believe is the title).
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  6. #6
    Member TheH's Avatar
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    For me it would be the original Kaipa with their third album "Solo".
    Not really interested in anything that came later...

  7. #7
    Member TheH's Avatar
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    There are also two very recent boxy sets (A Kingdom Of Colours I and II)
    which have all FK studio albums for decent prices.

  8. #8
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    ^^^ I was just going to post about the FK boxes. An inexpensive means of obtaining the whole FK catalog. Then listen to it all and decide what you like! Make some iPod playlists or your own CD-Rs with all the best.


    Also you have probably heard the Tangent's music at some point. Stolt was on the first two and I think the first one is a masterpiece. Best thing Stolt has ever done IMHO. I also like the first Agents of Mercy quite a lot.

  9. #9
    Member Zonefish's Avatar
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    For me it starts with Roine Stolt's solo--The Flower King (1994) and quickly folds into Stardust We Are (1997). My issue with much of the mid-period Flower Power through Unfold the Future is a lack of editing. All very good albums, but could easily be 2/3rds or 1/2 as long without losing their impact.
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  10. #10
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    The first five Flower Kings are my favourites, but I like the whole catalogue to one degree or another. You really can't go wrong with any of those, and they are each a good example of their sound. I particularly think the run of three albums Stardust We Are, Flower Power and Space Revolver are the best.

    Kaipa is a tad more complicated, the first three albums from the mid to late 70s are great, and then fast forwarding to the reformed band in the 21st century, there are a number of strong albums as well, although more heavily vocal, and only the first three of those with Stolt. I would avoid the ones they did in the 80s. Good advice might be to sample one from the 70s and one of the latter-day albums - particularly from 2002 - 2005, if Stolt's presence is what you're after.
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  11. #11
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    I am so jealous!!! The world is about to open up for you!!!

    My top picks for The Flower Kings:

    Stardust We Are
    Space Revolver
    The Sum Of No Evil

    My top picks for Kaipa:

    Inget Nytt Under Solen
    Notes From The Past
    Keyholder


    My top picks for various other Stolt releases:

    Agents Of Mercy The Black Forest
    Karmakanic Entering The Spectra
    The Tangent The Music That Died Alone
    Roine Stolt Hydrophonia

    Enjoy the ride!!!
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  12. #12
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    And don't forget to pick up The Whirlwind and Kaleidoscope. Maybe not quite as solid as the first two Transatlantic records but I really love them.
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  13. #13
    Concerning The Flower Kings catalogue you truly can't go wrong. I personally had an easier time getting into the newer albums first, due to the organic production values. These are also more comparable to how The Sea Within and Anderson/Stolt were mixed and mastered Imo. So If I were you I'd try Desolation Rose and Banks of Eden first. The most diverse and impressive release to me is Unfold the future (by far actually), seeing how it goes from straight jazz-fusion (Bonus track) to classic symphonic prog topped off with a little Zappa sprinkle (Devils playground).
    I personally enjoy only classic Kaipa, which is pretty much summed up in the first three releases, also known as the Decca Years. Solo is the most approachable of the 3 Imo (shorter songs, catchy choruses and catchy riffs, great guitar playing by Roine and I think at this point he did much of the writing as well). The newer Kaipa constellation does include Jonas Reingold on bass and in the beginning also Roines guitar work, but I find most compositions to be a tad to predictable and generic. What I really can't seem to get used to either are the extremely cheesy vocals (This from a Flower Kings fan...). just not a sound I enjoy.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    I'm enjoying the new The Sea Within album. I also love The Invention of Knowledge. And I also enjoy the first two Transatlantic albums. There seems to be a common factor here in Roine Stolt! But I've never explored Stolt's other works, The Flower Kings or Kaipa, or anything else for that matter. What should I try?

    Thanks.

    Henry
    I am surprised that you haven't already gotten into The Flower Kings, given that they are arguably one of if not the most Yes-influenced band of the "third wave" of prog.
    I got into the Flower Kings initially via the stalwart Alive on Planet Earth double cd, great sound and at the time was kind of a "best of" to that point, and then got into Stardust, Flower Power and Space Revolver from there especially after seeing their first NEARfest appearance. I agree with the others here that those albums and the other earlier ones were the strongest, although there is good stuff on all of them. I also agree that the run of double cd albums could have been edited down better and some are bloated a bit, especially later in the catalog. They sometimes seemed as though they were trying to Out-Topographic the Tales....

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by miamiscot View Post
    And don't forget to pick up The Whirlwind and Kaleidoscope. Maybe not quite as solid as the first two Transatlantic records but I really love them.
    I've got those two. (Well, I've got Kaleidoscope. I can't remember if I've got The Whirlwind, but I've heard it.) I think they're OK, but a step down from the first two Transatlantic or the better Spock's Beard albums. IMHO.

    Thanks everyone for the Stolt suggestions. I am reading with interest. Keep them coming.

    Henry
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by TheH View Post
    For me it would be the original Kaipa with their third album "Solo".
    Not really interested in anything that came later...
    I’ve heard mixed things about Solo. Some say it’s a step down from their first two, others think it’s their best. Anyway, you can’t go wrong with their first two, Inget nytt under solen is a borderline classic.

    As for TFKs, I have three of their albums, none are essential. Back in the World of Adventures and Retropolis are both pretty bland and anodyne, to be honest; the sort of formulaic dross that gives latter-day prog a bad name. And then there’s Stardust We Are, which did the dangerous thing of getting my hopes up. There’s some pretty dynamic and exciting stuff on the first disc, but it quickly degenerates into some of their worst music ever on the second disc. “Different People” might just be their worst song to date. And the title track—all 25 tedious minutes of it—is a great cure for insomnia. I decided right then and there (actually, after seeing them live a few times and hearing samples of their other material—did you know that they have at least one 56-minute suite that’s even more patience-trying than “Stardust We Are”?) that I didn’t need any more TFK albums. But if you want a bunch of extremely bland, formulaic, yet competently-played proggy-prog with no surprises and no variation from album to album, be my guest.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by DocProgger View Post
    I am surprised that you haven't already gotten into The Flower Kings, given that they are arguably one of if not the most Yes-influenced band of the "third wave" of prog.
    Generally, I've found Yes-related to deliver a more interesting and diverse set of music than Yes-influenced. That is, I'd rather follow a musician I like as they explore new territory. I don't generally explore bands just because they're Yes-influenced.

    Henry
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by battema View Post
    I personally think Space Revolver was their finest work but I am 100% certain opinions will vary.
    I agree about this mostly because it has the least amount of filler. TFK releases are often 2 CDs with several songs that just meander which I find boring. When they are composing songs, they can be tremendous, but too much is either just sound effects and/or jamming. So I'd go with Space Revolver first. Another one of my favorites is Paradox Hotel which has a lot of really beautiful work. Stardust We Are is a tremendous song and the CD has some other great pieces but in my ears is almost half filler. Flower Power has the magnificent Garden of Dreams suite. The second disc is hit or miss but the first four or five songs on that disc are all worth listening to. The other one I would recommend is Alive on Planet Earth which gives you probably their best early songs although only the last 1/3 of Stardust.

    As far as Kaipa, I like the current Kaipa more than the 70s incarnation. Roine only played on 1 of the newer albums, Notes From the Past. But I like Keyholder and Mindrevolutions more.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Progbear View Post
    I’ve heard mixed things about Solo. Some say it’s a step down from their first two, others think it’s their best. Anyway, you can’t go wrong with their first two, Inget nytt under solen is a borderline classic.

    As for TFKs, I have three of their albums, none are essential. Back in the World of Adventures and Retropolis are both pretty bland and anodyne, to be honest; the sort of formulaic dross that gives latter-day prog a bad name. And then there’s Stardust We Are, which did the dangerous thing of getting my hopes up. There’s some pretty dynamic and exciting stuff on the first disc, but it quickly degenerates into some of their worst music ever on the second disc. “Different People” might just be their worst song to date. And the title track—all 25 tedious minutes of it—is a great cure for insomnia. I decided right then and there (actually, after seeing them live a few times and hearing samples of their other material—did you know that they have at least one 56-minute suite that’s even more patience-trying than “Stardust We Are”?) that I didn’t need any more TFK albums. But if you want a bunch of extremely bland, formulaic, yet competently-played proggy-prog with no surprises and no variation from album to album, be my guest.
    Now I know you're just voicing your opinion (and I wouldn't dare have it any other way), but there's quite some bashing talk here. Any chance at all you think you just didn't get their sound? I get why one would call their compositions formulaic over time, but the early stuff was quite the fresh bunch of music when it came out (fresh meaning that few people had brought that sound back at the time and given it a new twist)

  20. #20
    Member Plasmatopia's Avatar
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    Many find the rebooted Kaipa vocals off-putting, but I'd suggest dipping your toes into Keyholder first and if you don't like that just stop there.

    It's hard to say which TFK album is best to start with. Maybe just pick one and avoid Rainmaker and Adam & Eve for now.

    The first Tangent album is great - The Music That Died Alone

    If you like Roine's guitar playing there's always Wall Street Voodoo.
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  21. #21
    Progdog ThomasKDye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    I'm enjoying the new The Sea Within album. I also love The Invention of Knowledge. And I also enjoy the first two Transatlantic albums. There seems to be a common factor here in Roine Stolt! But I've never explored Stolt's other works, The Flower Kings or Kaipa, or anything else for that matter. What should I try?

    Thanks.

    Henry
    Putting in a massive recommendation for Space Revolver. "I Am The Sun," both parts, are the strongest pieces he's ever done. The finale to "I Am The Sun, Part 2," is sublime, with excellent fretless basswork by Jonas Reingold. The other songs are just as strong, even the sweet little "You Don't Know What You've Got."

    Oh, yes, and Hydrophonia, a Roine Stolt solo album, is WONDERFUL. All instrumental, but every one is rock-solid, catchy, involving and well-crafted.
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  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Progbear View Post
    As for TFKs, I have three of their albums, none are essential. Back in the World of Adventures and Retropolis are both pretty bland and anodyne, to be honest; the sort of formulaic dross that gives latter-day prog a bad name. And then there’s Stardust We Are, which did the dangerous thing of getting my hopes up. There’s some pretty dynamic and exciting stuff on the first disc, but it quickly degenerates into some of their worst music ever on the second disc. “Different People” might just be their worst song to date. And the title track—all 25 tedious minutes of it—is a great cure for insomnia. I decided right then and there (actually, after seeing them live a few times and hearing samples of their other material—did you know that they have at least one 56-minute suite that’s even more patience-trying than “Stardust We Are”?) that I didn’t need any more TFK albums. But if you want a bunch of extremely bland, formulaic, yet competently-played proggy-prog with no surprises and no variation from album to album, be my guest.
    Gotta say, with all due respect, I disagree.

    To say that all of their music is bland or has no surprises after having only heard a fraction of their output (and not even from their best period), is not exactly what I would call a fair critique. Evidently you haven't heard Unfold The Future, where they turned the jazz element up higher than they ever have before or since. And Jonas Reingold made a pretty big difference in their sound when he came aboard in 1999.

    There is also a level of sophistication in Roine Stolt's composition and arranging abilities that is not common in most "proggy-prog", as you call it. He's good at using recurring themes in his music, reworking them throughout an extended piece and through key modulation, and it gives a much more cohesive feel compared to what some modern prog bands do (i.e. just pasting together a bunch of short sections to make one long song).

    I don't expect any of this will change your mind of course. But I feel your statements are potentially misleading to the OP, and that were he to take your words to heart he might be missing out on a lot of music that he'd enjoy.

  23. #23
    Member Plasmatopia's Avatar
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    I forgot to mention: if you like Weather Report check out 3rd World Electric.
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  24. #24
    éí 'aaníígÓÓ 'áhoot'é Don Arnold's Avatar
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    Got to echo other opinions on Space Revolver, and, as mentioned, specifically the book ending "I Am The Sun" suite. Part two is right up there with my favourite Prog songs of all time. Other albums I'd personally recommend are (and in no particular order):

    1) Paradox Hotel ~ some varied pieces spread over the two discs with much more succinct song craft than on other recordings. Some of the songs on offer here are quite different than what you'll find on any other TFK record.
    2) Stardust We Are ~ love the epic! Twenty-five minutes of Prog Bliss to my ears. Some other delectable songs too, including Church of Your Heart and The Man Who Walked with Kings. True, there is definitely a splash of noodling spread over the two discs.
    3) Desolation Rose ~ another disc of some fine writing, imo. The main disc flows, at times, as one long song cycle.
    4) Unfold the Future ~ two great epics with a whole lot of other good stuff to boot.

    I have most of TFK's catalog and enjoy, to varying extent, all of them.

    As for Kaipa, I don't have the 70's albums. Of the reboot, I'd recommend Keyholder for Roine infused material. I actually really enjoy the Roine-less discs that follow Mind Revolutions, which I don't like as much.

  25. #25
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    As others have said, you are in for a treat! Such wonderful music all around. Makes one happy to be alive. I love the Flower Kings, especially Flower Power, The Sum of No Evil and Banks of Eden. It's all good though. You can't go wrong. Oddly enough, my least favorite is probably Back in the World of Adventures. I was driving back to Madison this past Sunday through the Wisconsin country side listening to that album and I just don't find it quite as inspired. And yet I still recommend it.

    When it comes to Roine, I like bands like Kaipa and Agents of Mercy even more than FK! I should be more specific in regards to Kaipa. I like the first two albums very much with Roine, but I love all the ones that came after Angling Feelings. I play them on the darkest days of winter to help bring a little light into the world.

    Agents of Mercy is just great start to finish. I wish this band was still an ongoing concern more than I wish FK were. All three albums are brilliant imo.

    Transatlantic is the only Roine project that I can't get my ears, head and heart around. It's not Roine's fault. It's Neal. I'm not a Neal fan. Every time I hear Neal I toss a little of what I ate earlier in day up. Maybe one day, but his brand of overtly religious messaging just grates my soul. Maybe one day I'll be able to listen to Trans.

    Anyway, enjoy the musical journey ahead! Life is short, take it all in. Peace.

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