In the GD Movie DVD I remember it seemed that they edited some parts so you couldn't see Lagin's face (same with some then-wives/girlfriends) so unfortunately there probably are legal issues between him and the Dead.
In the GD Movie DVD I remember it seemed that they edited some parts so you couldn't see Lagin's face (same with some then-wives/girlfriends) so unfortunately there probably are legal issues between him and the Dead.
Oh and one more thing about why a given show or run of shows or whatever haven't been issued, there's a few different things I've heard about such things:
1. Sometimes, the tapes aren't there. There's stories of tapes being lost, or "borrowed and never returned, etc", but some shows are literally missing from the vault. I remember one of the Dick's Picks releases, the one from 85 or whenever it was (one of the "Jerry in red" shows) had a scrap of filler, with a bit of that night's space jam and whatever song that segued into, with a disclaimer noting that was all that was in the vault from that show.
2. Sometimes, technology doesn't always work the way it's supposed to. I can't remember which of the latter day Dead sound it was, whether it was Healy or Cutler or one of those guys, anyway, one of them was talking in one of the Taper's Compendium books about how they were doing this early digital recording system, back in the 80's. I've forgotten the details, but he said, every few days, an overnight courier would show up to takes the tapes they had from the last few shows, so they could be shipped back to the band's offices and put in the vault. He said they never actually listened to them, and for all he knows, every one of those shows could be blank, because those early digital recording devices they were using were known for producing errors, which may result in anything from drop outs, or something being so corrupted that it was useless.
3. Even in the analog recording era, there were all kinds of things that could happen. I remember Two From The Vault was rescued from a tape that was originally deemed "useless" because of how it was recorded (Warners sent "chaperones" who were clueless about recording live rock music, to record the concert, because they didn't trust the band with the brand new, state of the art, 16 track tape machine). It wasn't until the 90's that the technology existed to make the tapes releaseable. And during the 70's, usually, whoever was running the tape machine had other responsibilities. During the 72-74 era, it was often times Kidd Candelario, and if he was busy dealing with something else, the tape might run out, and a section of music would be missed.
Originally Posted by pb2015
The original movie, I think, was left untouched, it's exactly as it was originally released (or at least, the version that was shown on Night Flight and also released on VHS back in the 80's). On the bonus disc, you can clearly see Lagin during the Dark Star footage (unfortunately, you can't actually HEAR him, DAMMIT!!!!), and in the original film, you can see him during Morning Dew. No closeups, really, but you can see him there. And there's photos in both the DVD and CD releases, with Lagin very visible.
But yeah, I imagine anything would require him to sign off on it, notably because he's on it, but also because Seastones was "his baby", as it were. I've also heard on some of the tapes, Ned is completely absent. Apparently, during the actual live performances, he was being routed through the vocal speakers in the PA system, and when the rest of the band came on, he was switched to just whatever amplifcation/monitoring system. I've heard it said, the only people who could hear Ned was the band itself and whoever happened to be right in front or to the side of the stage. The majority of the audience couldn't even hear him, say during the 10/18/74 Dark Star. And I recall reading that when Phil and Owsley started prepping Steal Your Face, they found that Ned was completely absent on the multi-track tapes!
I realize "it is what it is", but that doesn't stop it from being massively frustrating for those of us who enjoy and even prefer the "all the way out there" stuff over the redundant bar band stuff.
Ya know what, I forgot about that, but you're right. I watched a bit of 10/31, and I know there's some other stuff on there.
One of the problems with the Dead during that era (and indeed, for the entire post-Keith years) was the awful piano sounds they had. Brent played a Fender Rhodes when he first joined the band, but somehow they got this real tinny sound out of it, not at all sounding like what a Fender Rhodes can and should sound like. Then, later, he started using digital emulations of acoustic pianos, which were only marginally better, and that carried on into the Vince years, too.
Then there's Brent and the synths. Watching the Dead AHead footage, you can see he had both a Minimoog and a Prophet 5 onstage. But he felt that synths weren't very good for the Dead because, according to him, you couldn't just go to "preset 5" or whatever, becaue their music was too spontaneous. He said he'd have an idea for a sound that would fit in with what the band was doing, but by the time he'd have the patch set up, the band had moved onto something else, and he'd be "left behind with my little sound there". On the other hand, during that era, he played some great pseudo pedal steel licks on Alabama Getaway.
But the thing is, "going to preset 5" is exactly what he did during the mid and late 80's. He had a MIDI keyboard onstage, that he used for everything except his B-3 (the one instrument where he actually had great sounds...I dunno, you might actually need either Peter Graves or Martin Landau's help to mess up the sound of a Hammond organ). And whenever he used anything from the synth, that was all pre-programmed before hand. Same thing with Vince (as well as for the others when they used their guitar synth and electronic percussion rigs). So I don't know what changed that suddenly made synths "work" in the Dead's music after about 84 or so.
But personally, I wish there had been more synth during the 72-74 era. I think spacey sort of Del Dettmar or Tim Blake type synths might have been interesting during some of those Dark Star or The Other improvs. But Keith wasn't into synths (I think he used them very occasionally, but he was mostly just interested in playing piano only), and Ned apparently didn't want to join the band full time (I think he would have been a better choice than Keith). On the other hand, you might argue that's part of what set them apart, i.e. every other psych/space rock band was using synths heavily (or doing stuff that sounded like synths, as per Pink Floyd or Can), but the Dead only used them just a little bit (and mostly, not at all).
Around 1982 Brent had a Yamaha Electric Grand that sounded ok, the most Keith-like sound he had. I believe he said the roadies got tired of carrying it.
Keith used a Yamaha CP-70 for a time, circa 77-78, and I think there was a definite drop in quality in the piano sound from when he was using a grand piano onstage. But I'm not really that crazy about the band during that era, anyway. There's some nice music here and there, some good jams, but the open ended improv kinda went away, and that was around the time Jerry's guitar tone started to suffer. I know a lot of people think highly of 1977, but to me, they were almost turning into a frat party house band at that point (note that many of the more popular shows from that year took place on university campuses), in comparison to the 72-74 era.
And the 3 cd set will have the 47 minute Playing In The Band on it.
I've had this on DAT for years and am really looking forward to this!
Box looks great, but add shipping to Canada and it's beyond me right now, so I preordered FLAC [24/192], which I'll probably prefer anyway, even though they do make great physical boxes.
Really looking forward to hearing the shows, as 1973/74 is probably my least-owned from that decade. Have Winterland '73 box, Grateful Dead Movie box (recorded in '74) and a handful of other shows only. So this will fill in the gap nicely!
John Kelman
Senior Contributor, All About Jazz since 2004
Freelance writer/photographer
Got my shipping notice last night.
'73 and '74 were the prime years for Owsley's Wall of Sound. The Dead were touring with that monster sound system when I saw them in May of 1974. It sounded awesome in the stadium, but I wonder if the new technology made it more difficult to record a concert.
We're trying to build a monument to show that we were here
It won't be visible through the air
And there won't be any shade to cool the monument to prove that we were here. - Gene Parsons, 1973
Well, it wasn't so much "new technology" as deploying existing technology differently.
But in answer to you question, no, they recorded the band the same way as always: any given mic onstage was split so that were two signals. One went to the PA, the other to the recording equipment. On a nightly basis, the band was recorded on two track, I think usually using a Nagra. It's not quite correct to call them soundboard tapes, because you're not hearing mix going out to the PA, but rather a separate, independent mix that was done specifically for recording, though of course, live mixing is always tricky, so it may end up being not perfect.
If they were planning a live album, then they'd add multi-track tape, but essentially it'd be the same deal: the multi-track machine is getting an independent audio feed from the PA. I remember Betty Cantor saying that even when they were doign multi-track, they'd still run the Nagra, as well, so that if someone wanted to hear something later, it'd be a simple matter of setting the Nagra up in someone's hotel room or whatever, and running tape.
The one thing that might be defined as "difficult" was those damn dual mics they used for the vocals. Each vocalist had two mics mounted together on a stand, wired out of phase. The idea was that you'd sing into one mic, and but anything picked up by both mics would be canceled out, thus eliminating leakage and feedback. The problem being, for the setup to actually work, you had to place the mics close enough together that both mics actually picked up the singing, the upshot being this thin, tinny vocal sound you hear on virtually every tape from the 73-74 era. On a multi-track tape, you could put some EQ on the vocal channels, or even (heaven forbid) overdub the vocal, but on a two track, you're kinda screwed.
I bought the 24/192 FLAC version (cheaper and, while no booklet, I've enough writing on the Dead I think). Finished downloading about 90 mins ago, so have converted to AIFF, have imported into iTunes and am now converting to ALAC (yeah, I know I could have gone directly from FLAC to ALAC - which I must use as I use iTunes - but there's a long story behind why I do it as I do that would likely bore just about everyone!).
Hoping to have it on my DAP (tonight it's my wife's night to choose what we listen to, as we alternate nights for the home stereo system, so I can't hear it there 'til tomorrow), so I can go to sleep listening to it! But wow - the AIFF files totaled over 75 GB - and the first show, from Vancouver, 1973, is over four HOURS long!
So, I've got a LOT of new music to absorb, which will be challenged by the Jan Akkerman 26CD box, a review copy of which is on its way to me from the Netherlands, and since I need to listen around 8-10 times, that's going to really occupy my ears a lot over the next few weeks, along with Crimson's Meltdown, which I'll also be reviewing once I've got my copy (and am i ever looking forward to this one!).
And that's not all....I'm reviewing Yelena Eckemoff's latest, a Stones live CD/Blu Ray, one or two ECM titles and a liner note gig (rare these days as, because of the Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, I've had to turn down a lot of offers because the work is simply too much for me these days, but in this case it's one to which I just couldn't say no!).
Yikes. I think it's time I start looking seriously into cloning me. Not, I think, that the world deserves a second me, but I promise I'll keep him secured and away from the public (
)....
John Kelman
Senior Contributor, All About Jazz since 2004
Freelance writer/photographer
I *really* wanted to get this box set as it's one of my favorite periods of The Dead. But man, I've already got so many Grateful Dead box sets, so many Dick's Picks and Dave's Picks that I just don't have the time or the room for all this music. I suppose I could go the download route but I really like having physical copies of my music, Dead or otherwise. I'll be interested to read the reviews of this set though.
That 6/22/73 Bird Song. Wow.
Daily jazz vinyl reviews on Instagram @jazzandcoffee
Hmm, the release seems to have reached some record for volume vs content for boxed sets. In fact, there’s a box inside the box which is empty aside from a certificate of authenticity. It’s filled with authentic nothing. It all looks nice, but economy of size has not been their goal for many of these sets.
Did you get your copy already or is that a response to the unboxing video (which I haven't watched because I didn't want to spoil it). I was unclear about just how big this puppy would be, and given that the Europe '72 and 30 Trips boxes already take up an inordinate amount of real estate in my domicile, I was hoping it wouldn't be too huge.
Will find out soon, anyway; I'm expecting delivery today.
Hurtleturtled Out of Heaven - an electronic music composition, on CD and vinyl
https://michaelpdawson.bandcamp.com
http://www.waysidemusic.com/Music-Pr...MCD-spc-7.aspx
My copy came a day or two ago, I just opened it last night. It’s pretty big.
Mine was waiting for me at the office when I got in. Not so bad once it's taken out of the box and assembled, but the box itself is pretty boxy. I do love the custom shipping boxes they create for each deluxe set.
Hurtleturtled Out of Heaven - an electronic music composition, on CD and vinyl
https://michaelpdawson.bandcamp.com
http://www.waysidemusic.com/Music-Pr...MCD-spc-7.aspx
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