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Thread: Great anti-Post-Modernism discussion Camille Paglia & Jordan B Peterson

  1. #126
    Subterranean Tapir Hobo Chang Ba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddhabreath View Post
    I think you've hit the nail on the head. The sudden popularity Peterson, I think speaks to a void of meaning in modern life with it's increasing virtual nature and isolation facilitated by technology and passive pursuits - watching rather than doing, social media rather than in the flesh, a never-ending surfeit of information from myriad sources often with little veracity. I hope that doesn't sound presumptuous or condescending, I'm speaking personally as a concerned father seeing my children sitting in front of their screens and absorbing who knows what instead of socializing face-to-face...
    I certainly hope there is more meaning in post-modern life. :o)

    Seriously though, was there meaning in a pre-modern life? Is this really a modern problem?
    Please don't ask questions, just use google.

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  2. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddhabreath View Post
    I I'm speaking personally as a concerned father seeing my children sitting in front of their screens and absorbing who knows what instead of socializing face-to-face...
    All that is happening is that they are being assimilated into the Borg. I'm not seeing the down side here.

  3. #128
    I postulate that "post-modernism" is a tool used to move resources from workers to "government, elite, and lazy folk." I'm not saying that's a bad thing. Its a Darwin evolutionary thing.


    All Life seeks two things.

    1. Replication

    2. Resources


    Therefore, any animal or human behavior which sustains,remains or flourishes in a population over time is directly correlated with Replication or Resource gathering. Post-modernism has a tight correlation with resource gathering. Post-modernism advocates that there is no such thing as absolute truth. That in turn means there is No moral ethics. Once the post-modernists get the ball rolling, they invoke "situational ethics." Its a group instinct thing. In fact the majority of post-modernists are largely unaware of the "resource theft motive". Instead they believe they are good people. Its all about POWER. The POWER to steal (gather) resources. The post-modernists and supporters of situational ethics force "change onto society" to steal resources from "resource creators". Again, I'm not saying this is a bad thing. Its a tool and an evolutionary adaptation.

    I expect supporters of post-modernism such as leftists, communists, most governments and feminists to disagree with my point of view. This is to be expected. In fact they must disagree with my point of view. Its imperative. Because, in order to steal resources its more efficient for thieves to camouflage the mass theft from their "mind's eye"- behind the verbiage veils of "political correctness", politics, feminism, and countless other ism's. Mustn't let guilt (another evolutionary adaption) get in the way of stealing resources! So its important for the thieves to be unaware of their theft methods. Again, this is NOT a BAD thing. If it works then evolution, through natural selection, will select for the behavior. The first thing the 2001 Space Odyssey Apes did with the first tool "bone" was to steal a watering hole from the other tribe of apes. Identity politics? Are we not apes?
    Last edited by Crawford Glissadevil; 05-29-2018 at 10:47 AM.

  4. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Crawford Glissadevil View Post
    I postulate that "post-modernism" is a tool used to move resources from workers to "government, elite, and lazy folk." I'm not saying that's a bad thing. Its a Darwin evolutionary thing.


    All Life seeks two things.

    1. Replication

    2. Resources


    Therefore, any animal or human behavior which sustains,remains or flourishes in a population over time is directly correlated with Replication or Resource gathering. Post-modernism has a tight correlation with resource gathering. Post-modernism advocates that there is no such thing as absolute truth. That in turn means there is No moral ethics. Once the post-modernists get the ball rolling, they invoke "situational ethics." Its a group instinct thing. In fact the majority of post-modernists are largely unaware of the "resource theft motive". Instead they believe they are good people. Its all about POWER. The POWER to steal (gather) resources. The post-modernists and supporters of situational ethics force "change onto society" to steal resources from "resource creators". Again, I'm not saying this is a bad thing. Its a tool and an evolutionary adaptation.

    I expect supporters of post-modernism such as leftists, communists, most governments and feminists to disagree with my point of view. This is to be expected. In fact they must disagree with my point of view. Its imperative. Because, in order to steal resources its more efficient for thieves to camouflage the mass theft from their "mind's eye"- behind the verbiage veils of "political correctness", politics, feminism, and countless other ism's. Mustn't let guilt (another evolutionary adaption) get in the way of stealing resources! So its important for the thieves to be unaware of their theft methods. Again, this is NOT a BAD thing. If it works then evolution, through natural selection, will select for the behavior. The first thing the 2001 Space Odyssey Apes did with the first tool "bone" was to steal a watering hole from the other tribe of apes. Identity politics? Are we not apes?

    This merely seems like some kind of rhetorical device you are employing, and meant to derail discussion. Surely, no one has this opinion.

  5. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobo Chang Ba View Post
    I certainly hope there is more meaning in post-modern life. :o)

    Seriously though, was there meaning in a pre-modern life? Is this really a modern problem?
    Perhaps not, I may just be struggling to find meaning in the never-ending word salad of jargon and references spewed out by Peterson's disordered mind. In my view, meaning has to come within. It is not bestowed upon us from some higher power unless it arises like consciousness itself (emergence theory) from the laws of physics itself.

    Here is a consummate example of a debate in which a straight-forward clear speaker, Matt Dillahunty slams into the word-salad of dead-end thought spirals that seep out of Peterson like plague fleas jumping of a filthy rat. Of course your view may be that Peterson is illuminating the "metaphysical substrate" of our culture and revealing timeliness truths such as one cannot quit smoking without supernatural intervention. Peterson appears to have a little knowledge about a lot of things with no ability whatsoever to synthesize them into a coherent whole or even a coherent argument? How did he get an advance degree? His essays must have been utter train wreks!
    Last edited by Buddhabreath; 05-29-2018 at 12:15 PM.

  6. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Crawford Glissadevil View Post
    I postulate that "post-modernism" is a tool used to move resources from workers to "government, elite, and lazy folk." ... any animal or human behavior which sustains, remains or flourishes in a population over time is directly correlated with Replication or Resource gathering. ... The post-modernists and supporters of situational ethics force "change onto society" to steal resources from "resource creators" ... in order to steal resources its more efficient for thieves to camouflage the mass theft from their "mind's eye"- behind the verbiage veils of "political correctness", politics, feminism, and countless other ism's. Mustn't let guilt (another evolutionary adaption) get in the way of stealing resources!
    Exactly. Most of these victim-mentality/groupthink types are merely leaching off the resources — buildings, vehicles, mediums of communication (television, Internet, smartphones, etc.) — conceived and developed over decades and centuries from the strength and ingenuity of brave and enterprising men, who were driven from the outset by the replicative instincts that characterize all life on Earth.

  7. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by regenerativemusic View Post
    This merely seems like some kind of rhetorical device you are employing, and meant to derail discussion. Surely, no one has this opinion.
    You prove my point Regenerativemusic. I expect the majority of folks posting to this thread to disagree with my viewpoint for the reasons I outlined in my previous post. Its imperative. It must be so. I don't judge your view as good, bad, or less then. I admire adaptive survival mechanisms such as post-modernism, cognitive dissonance, and psychopathy. ( Yes, I argue psychopathy is an evolutionary adaptive survival mechanism that is on the increase amongst Western human populations...passed on genetically) Like post-modernism, psychopathy is neither good, bad or insane. I digress...

    I'm not alone however, many evolutionary psychologists, anthropological behaviorists, and critical thinkers agree with the general principals I outlined.

    I'm hardly derailing the discussion. In fact, I'm cutting past the fat to the bone of post-modernism. What is it used for? Please Regenerativemusic share your thoughts on why post-modernism exists.

  8. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaragon View Post
    Exactly. Most of these victim-mentality/groupthink types are merely leaching off the resources — buildings, vehicles, mediums of communication (television, Internet, smartphones, etc.) — conceived and developed over decades and centuries from the strength and ingenuity of brave and enterprising men, who were driven from the outset by the replicative instincts that characterize all life on Earth.
    Yes Zaragon. We must not forget the inventors and entrepreneurs. Blue collar workers find themselves in the same boat as the inventors. I know gaggles of English Profs, poets, leftists who despise "working class Joes." Without the blue collar class, Poets, feminists, politicians,and leftists would be without a roof, air-conditioning, food, TV, phones, cars and time to impugn the blue collar existence. Don't get me wrong. I don't blame poets, leftists and post-modernists for using their command of language and "color of law" to steal resources from the working class. Leftists are the cuckoos of the human race. Cuckoo birds don't build their own nests either. That's an evolutionary survival strategy where Cuckoo birds trick other birds into building their nests and raising their babies. The word cuckold comes from the French word for Cuckoo bird.
    Last edited by Crawford Glissadevil; 05-29-2018 at 01:40 PM.

  9. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crawford Glissadevil View Post
    Yes Zaragon. We must not forget the inventors and entrepreneurs. Blue collar workers find themselves in the same boat as the inventors. I know gaggles of English Profs, poets, leftists who despise "working class Joes." Without the blue collar class, Poets, feminists, politicians,and leftists would be without a roof, air-conditioning, food, TV, phones, cars and time to impugn the blue collar existence. Don't get me wrong. I don't blame poets, leftists and post-modernists for using their command of language and "color of law" to steal resources from the working class. Leftists are the cuckoos of the human race. Cuckoo birds don't build their own nests either. That's an evolutionary survival strategy where Cuckoo birds trick other birds into building their nests and raising their babies. The word cuckold comes from the French word for Cuckoo bird.
    So it’s the leftists that despise the working class is it? Jezuz F. Christ have you EVER read a history book? Do you have the foggiest idea of who has power and the policies they promulgate? You’re either in the Fox News memory hole or you’re just a troll. If it is the former, man o man will you be mad if you ever figure out you’ve been manipulated and lied to all these years! Let’s hope that one day you will be able to afford to buy a clue. Unbelievable. Well I’m starting to get how Peterson became a public intellectual and a narcissistic criminal con man became president....

  10. #135
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    I know gaggles of English Profs, poets, leftists who despise "working class Joes."
    ...and I have absolutely no doubt that is a shameless filthy lie.

  11. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddhabreath View Post
    So it’s the leftists that despise the working class is it? Jezuz F. Christ have you EVER read a history book? Do you have the foggiest idea of who has power and the policies they promulgate? You’re either in the Fox News memory hole or you’re just a troll. If it is the former, man o man will you be mad if you ever figure out you’ve been manipulated and lied to all these years! Let’s hope that one day you will be able to afford to buy a clue. Unbelievable. Well I’m starting to get how Peterson became a public intellectual and a narcissistic criminal con man became president....
    “History would be a wonderful thing – if it were only true.”

    ― Leo Tolstoy



    I am an evolutionary biologist/animal behaviorist. I merely observe. I don't watch the news. Like the scientist I am I research piles of verified data.

    I understand why you must disagree with me Buddhabreath. I applaud the purple passion you display igniting blue prose as you protect your principals and belief system. I'd be truly disappointed if you let critical thinking get in your way.

    Are you a Buddhist? Do you ascribe to Buddhist philosophy? If so, how do you reconcile Buddhism moderation with "balls to the wall" rants and raving? I don't think that's a bad thing. As a matter of fact, I'm impressed. After all, the ability to support multiple conflicting beliefs can be quite adaptive. That way you won't feel the guilt of a self aware hypocrite. You virtue signal, steal resources, and simultaneously guilt trip and shame the tribe you steal from! Bravo Buddhabreath! Well done!
    Last edited by Crawford Glissadevil; 05-29-2018 at 03:33 PM.

  12. #137
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    I am an evolutionary biologist/animal behaviorist.
    I suggest you then stick to the study of animals without a developed cerebrum and who are primarily governed by the amygdala like lizards and right-wing conservatives.

    I don't watch the news
    No shit?

    I'd be truly disappointed if you let critical thinking get in your way.
    Quite an ironic comment after blatantly displaying your lack of critical thinking. Luckily your lack of self-awareness will shield you from that embarrassment.

    Are you a Buddhist?
    I find value in many different "spiritual" traditions and mythologies. It's part of having a good liberal education and having had the opportunity to travel the world. You should try it. It broadens the mind and lends perspective.

    After all, the ability to support multiple conflicting beliefs can be quite adaptive. That way you won't feel the guilt of a self aware hypocrite. You virtue signal, steal resources, and simultaneously guilt trip and shame the tribe you steal from!
    LOL! That's quite an analysis! Care to back up those assertions? What are my conflicting beliefs? How am I a hypocrite? What is this tribe and how did I steal from them? I shall not hold my breath in hope of elucidation. In fact don't bother - I'm not really interested in such painfully uninformed opinions bereft of wit and erudition.

  13. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Crawford Glissadevil View Post
    I don't watch the news... I research piles of verified data.
    As do all critically thinking people in today's propaganda-addled, liberally indoctrinated world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crawford Glissadevil View Post
    ...the ability to support multiple conflicting beliefs can be quite adaptive. That way you won't feel the guilt of a self aware hypocrite. You virtue signal, steal resources, and simultaneously guilt trip and shame the tribe you steal from!
    The MSM in a nutshell. Corporate mouthpieces like Joy-Ann Reid and Rachel Maddow peddle conspiracy theories and outright falsehoods and net multi-million annual salaries. Meanwhile, citizen journalists/independent commentators like Lauren Southern, Brittany Pettibone, Faith Goldy, Laura Loomer, and Tommy Robinson report on news events as situations unfold, only to be detained and/or arrested for simply defying the globalist, deep-state narrative.

  14. #139
    Member wideopenears's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaragon View Post
    As do all critically thinking people in today's propaganda-addled, liberally indoctrinated world.



    The MSM in a nutshell. Corporate mouthpieces like Joy-Ann Reid and Rachel Maddow peddle conspiracy theories and outright falsehoods and net multi-million annual salaries. Meanwhile, citizen journalists/independent commentators like Lauren Southern, Brittany Pettibone, Faith Goldy, Laura Loomer, and Tommy Robinson report on news events as situations unfold, only to be detained and/or arrested for simply defying the globalist, deep-state narrative.
    I'm not a fan of cable news in general, whether it's MSNBC or Fox, or even CNN. But Brittany Pettibone is an Alt Right Darling dating a "European Identity Dude." Lauren Southern, Faith Goldy, all those people are thinly veiled White Supremacists or vehement Nationalists. You might as well prop up Alex Jones as a "citizen journalist/independent commentator. "

    These people are far from objective. Your "globalist deep-state narrative" is a pile of poop, too, frankly....you sound like Roseanne tweeting about Soros and Chelsea for Pete's Sake.

    This thread should die.
    "And this is the chorus.....or perhaps it's a bridge...."

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  16. #141
    Member wideopenears's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaragon View Post
    In MSM/SJW speak, any commentator who is not a Soros/Bezos puppet is a "[blank] supremacist." Candace Owens and Diamond & Silk are perfect examples.
    Nah. Not buying it. I’ll take Al Jazeera English, BBC, Reuters and the AP newswires over the cable news clowns, left or right, or your gaggle of tweeters and “citizen journalists.”


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    "And this is the chorus.....or perhaps it's a bridge...."

  17. #142
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    This thread should die.
    It should indeed. I had no idea there were brainwashed, low information, conspiracy-minded right-wing whack-jobs in the forum with their head permanently lodged deep in their colons! Somehow I thought being an enthusiast of non-commercial progressive music requiring a modicum of knowledge and engagement on the part of the listener would have the effect of skimming off the scum. I was wrong.

    I'm done...and if I'm done with forum in the eyes of the moderators because I offended some right-wing scum bag so be it! Maybe at the same time you can take the word "progressive" off the forum name as well.

  18. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Crawford Glissadevil View Post
    Therefore, any animal or human behavior which sustains,remains or flourishes in a population over time is directly correlated with Replication or Resource gathering. Post-modernism has a tight correlation with resource gathering. Post-modernism advocates that there is no such thing as absolute truth. That in turn means there is No moral ethics. Once the post-modernists get the ball rolling, they invoke "situational ethics." Its a group instinct thing. In fact the majority of post-modernists are largely unaware of the "resource theft motive". Instead they believe they are good people. Its all about POWER. The POWER to steal (gather) resources. The post-modernists and supporters of situational ethics force "change onto society" to steal resources from "resource creators". Again, I'm not saying this is a bad thing. Its a tool and an evolutionary adaptation.

    I expect supporters of post-modernism such as leftists, communists, most governments and feminists to disagree with my point of view. This is to be expected. In fact they must disagree with my point of view. Its imperative. Because, in order to steal resources its more efficient for thieves to camouflage the mass theft from their "mind's eye"- behind the verbiage veils of "political correctness", politics, feminism, and countless other ism's. Mustn't let guilt (another evolutionary adaption) get in the way of stealing resources! So its important for the thieves to be unaware of their theft methods. Again, this is NOT a BAD thing. If it works then evolution, through natural selection, will select for the behavior. The first thing the 2001 Space Odyssey Apes did with the first tool "bone" was to steal a watering hole from the other tribe of apes. Identity politics? Are we not apes?
    One could say the exact same thing regarding Nationalists, Fascists and Nazis, who strive for power and to deny power for those they deem inferior or defective; in fact, when one speaks of "situational ethics" and an utterly twisted sense of "moral ethics", they wrote the book. Or several books. Mein Kampf being an excellent example. By your little hypothetical diatribe I can see you have already selected specific "others" to scapegoat. By selecting, as you described, the "lazy people", leftists, feminists, etc., I am sure you have a specific "solution" to deal with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crawford Glissadevil View Post
    The word cuckold comes from the French word for Cuckoo bird.
    Why don't you just say "cuck" and be done with it? We all know the ilk who uses such a pejorative.
    "And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision."

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  19. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Buddhabreath View Post
    It should indeed. I had no idea there were brainwashed, low information, conspiracy-minded right-wing whack-jobs in the forum with their head permanently lodged deep in their colons! Somehow I thought being an enthusiast of non-commercial progressive music requiring a modicum of knowledge and engagement on the part of the listener would have the effect of skimming off the scum. I was wrong.

    I'm done...and if I'm done with forum in the eyes of the moderators because I offended some right-wing scum bag so be it! Maybe at the same time you can take the word "progressive" off the forum name as well.
    I've had left friends all my life but I can see that the left are the first ones with the hate speech. The left have become much more hateful than the right. The right are just standing up for what was plain historically. The left is clearly more Orwellian. I'm a moderate, refuse to be pigeonholed as left or right.

  20. #145
    Member wideopenears's Avatar
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    Plain historically? What does that mean?
    "And this is the chorus.....or perhaps it's a bridge...."

  21. #146
    Estimated Prophet notallwhowander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crawford Glissadevil View Post
    Therefore, any animal or human behavior which sustains,remains or flourishes in a population over time is directly correlated with Replication or Resource gathering. Post-modernism has a tight correlation with resource gathering. Post-modernism advocates that there is no such thing as absolute truth. That in turn means there is No moral ethics. Once the post-modernists get the ball rolling, they invoke "situational ethics." Its a group instinct thing. In fact the majority of post-modernists are largely unaware of the "resource theft motive". Instead they believe they are good people. Its all about POWER. The POWER to steal (gather) resources. The post-modernists and supporters of situational ethics force "change onto society" to steal resources from "resource creators". Again, I'm not saying this is a bad thing. Its a tool and an evolutionary adaptation.

    I expect supporters of post-modernism such as leftists, communists, most governments and feminists to disagree with my point of view. This is to be expected. In fact they must disagree with my point of view. Its imperative. Because, in order to steal resources its more efficient for thieves to camouflage the mass theft from their "mind's eye"- behind the verbiage veils of "political correctness", politics, feminism, and countless other ism's. Mustn't let guilt (another evolutionary adaption) get in the way of stealing resources! So its important for the thieves to be unaware of their theft methods. Again, this is NOT a BAD thing. If it works then evolution, through natural selection, will select for the behavior. The first thing the 2001 Space Odyssey Apes did with the first tool "bone" was to steal a watering hole from the other tribe of apes. Identity politics? Are we not apes?
    Can you see that the above is untethered to anything but its own logic?

    Can you see that you have already dismissed anyone who disagrees with you, and thereby closed off your own mind?

    Can you see by showing your hand in this way, you give little motive for anyone to continue talk to you, unless they are eager to reflect your ideas back to you?

    This is what it looks like from the outside. If you want any kind of meaningful connection with others, you'll have stop the ideological sorting, and actually practice some empathy and understanding with those who think differently.

    Don't surround yourself with yourself. Move on back two squares.
    Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world.

  22. #147
    Estimated Prophet notallwhowander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by regenerativemusic View Post
    I've had left friends all my life but I can see that the left are the first ones with the hate speech. The left have become much more hateful than the right. The right are just standing up for what was plain historically. The left is clearly more Orwellian. I'm a moderate, refuse to be pigeonholed as left or right.
    I think it depends on which left and which right. These are big groups, and there are many divisions among them, and individuals are a finer grain still. The right on Fox News differs from the right on Stormfront which differs from the right-leaning folks at your local Evangelical church. Just like the left differs from community to community.

    Does it serve anyone, in this forum, on this thread, to talk in such broad terms, as opposed to dealing directly and individually with the people actually posting here?
    Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world.

  23. #148
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    ^^^
    Fugetaboutit! This guy's unhinged and probably looks under his bed before sleeping to make sure no communists or leftists or feminists are lurking there plotting to steal resources. It's sad when the mind deteriorates and rational thought is replaced by conspiracy theories and delusions. I recommend that Zaragon and Crawford in particular get professional psychiatric evaluations. There are effective treatments these days in some cases...

  24. #149
    Estimated Prophet notallwhowander's Avatar
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    Well, it could go both ways. Conspiracy thinking could be a symptom of a deteriorating consciousness, or a symptom of an emerging consciousness. At least I think it could be plausibly so.
    Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world.

  25. #150
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    Everyone, you all clearly know the rules here. Engaging in a discussion of this divisive political nature here is against forum rules. Actively participating in it for a week shows a blatant lack of respect for and disregard for these guidelines, the spirit of what PE is (and isn’t) about, and for fellow forum contributors. There are other Internet forums designed for you to spout off on these subjects. PE is not one. The next time a subject like this pops up, we will just start banning those who are involved.
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