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Thread: The Vinyl Thread

  1. #26
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post

    Most originals are probably worn to death, though.
    Nope. You'd be surprised how many originals have no spindle marks. I've bought many hundreds of original vintage LPs that sound great.

  2. #27
    Member nosebone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trane View Post
    Nope, but I see many vinyl addicts rejoicing more over the sale decline of the CD than over the progression of vinyl sales

    I don't know anything about that .This threads for vinyl collectors.
    no tunes, no dynamics, no nosebone

  3. #28
    Member Lopez's Avatar
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    I got a nice Denon turntable for Christmas from she-who-must-be-obeyed and it's made all the difference in the world. I look forward to playing my vinyl once again, most of it from before 1983 (pretty much Sandinista was the last current LP I bought). I only have a couple high-end reissues, such as the 40th anniversary reissue of the first Ramones album, and maybe these old ears have been destroyed by too many concerts up close, but I can't discern a sizable difference.
    Lou

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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by nosebone View Post
    Those 60s/70s and 80s tape masters are deteriorating .
    From what I’ve read, the recent Beatles records were an all analog process
    The Mono Box-which I think is now OOP-was cut full AAA. The stereo box was cut from hi-rez digital.

  5. #30
    Member Garyhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nosebone View Post
    Reads to me like you and Mr grumpy pants are the only ones with the attitude .
    I thought it was "Mr. Crankypants?"
    The Ice Cream Lady Wet her drawers........To see you in the Passion Playyyy eeee - I. Anderson

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  6. #31
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Question:

    What are "spindle marks"? Shiny places on the record's label, indicating previous owners' difficulty in placing the LP over the turntable's spindle? Why would these mean anything to you?

    I think Trane was probably referring to wear in the grooves, where the music actually lives. That's mostly what concerns about "record wear" refer to.
    Is that a serious question? No wonder the grading thing stumped you so badly.

    "Spindle marks" is a common term that anyone who has been around record collecting for more than 5 minutes knows. They are spider lines on the labels, caused by placing the record on the spindle. A record that has never been played will have no spindle marks. A record with no spindle marks will likely have had few plays, if any, and thus will not suffer from groove wear. (There's another technical record collecting term for ya.) So my comment regarding spindle marks was related to wear and audible deterioration.

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    Is that a serious question? No wonder the grading thing stumped you so badly.

    "Spindle marks" is a common term that anyone who has been around record collecting for more than 5 minutes knows. They are spider lines on the labels, caused by placing the record on the spindle. A record that has never been played will have no spindle marks. A record with no spindle marks will likely have had few plays, if any, and thus will not suffer from groove wear. (There's another technical record collecting term for ya.) So my comment regarding spindle marks was related to wear and audible deterioration.
    The miller's daughter in Rumpelstiltskin had "spindle marks". She got around.
    "And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision."

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  8. #33
    Member Top Cat's Avatar
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    A bit curious as to what amplifier ya'll are using.
    Once I bought my used Pioneer turntable I decided to go vintage and found a Realistic STA2000 AM/FM stereo receiver rated at 75W per channel.
    I love the tuner light at night, and it even has VU meters... ahhhhh the smell of vintage electronics.
    realistic-sta-2000-front-lit.jpg
    Soundcloud page: Open Window, musical meanderings https://soundcloud.com/precipice

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Huh. Yeah it was a serious question.

    I never used automatic turntables, back in the day, and I knew where my spindle was (!) so none of my records -- even the ones I played TO DEATH -- had spindle marks. But hey, I guess I learned something new today. Record collectors must be pretty easy to fool about the condition of platters. Good to know.
    Spindle marks are a real thing, They are a legitimate indication of usage and handling to serious collectors. Those taking the greatest care try to ensure they are not blindly placing the disc on the spindle. They might even guide it from the underside. Nobody, not even you, can hit the spindle perfectly every time. So, if someone is asking a high price for something they claim was "played only once" (or whatever), one might be able to point to spindle marks as an indication of greater use. So, maybe record collectors aren't "pretty easy to fool," like you suggest.
    The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone.

  10. #35
    Member Garyhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    I love the tuner light at night, and it even has VU meters... ahhhhh the smell of vintage electronics.
    realistic-sta-2000-front-lit.jpg
    The smell of cooking 70ís dust is so much more realistic than the smell of modern dust cooking.

  11. #36
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    Is that a serious question? No wonder the grading thing stumped you so badly.

    "Spindle marks" is a common term that anyone who has been around record collecting for more than 5 minutes knows. They are spider lines on the labels, caused by placing the record on the spindle. A record that has never been played will have no spindle marks. A record with no spindle marks will likely have had few plays, if any, and thus will not suffer from groove wear. (There's another technical record collecting term for ya.) So my comment regarding spindle marks was related to wear and audible deterioration.
    TBH, I didn't know that myself... Never thought about looking at it, because....

    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Huh. Yeah it was a serious question.

    I never used automatic turntables, back in the day, and I knew where my spindle was (!) so none of my records -- even the ones I played TO DEATH -- had spindle marks. But hey, I guess I learned something new today. Record collectors must be pretty easy to fool about the condition of platters. Good to know.
    ... exactly,... When I put a record on the TT (yeah, I still do that once in a while >> I've even bought two used Lps last year)), I generally grab the disc by the outer edges(middle finger and palm) and help getting it right by guiding my hands with my pinkies onto the tray & rubber mat, so it (spindle) goes in the hole in one shot without much contact of the labels at all.

    I thought everybody +/- serious into vinyls did that the same way... but yeah, I've seen idiot almost tossing it on the tray and then sliding the disc around until it finds the spindle and hole. I ca,n imagine you'd want to avoid buying anything

    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    Spindle marks are a real thing, They are a legitimate indication of usage and handling to serious collectors. Those taking the greatest care try to ensure they are not blindly placing the disc on the spindle. They might even guide it from the underside. Nobody, not even you, can hit the spindle perfectly every time. So, if someone is asking a high price for something they claim was "played only once" (or whatever), one might be able to point to spindle marks as an indication of greater use. So, maybe record collectors aren't "pretty easy to fool," like you suggest.
    Even with "my pinkie-guiding trick", I couldn't hit it 100% of the time


    But yeah, when I was talking of wear, it was the groove itself

    I had a Yamaha CR-1010 receiver (looking a bit like that Realistic photo) and YPB-4 TT in Toronto.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from heroin-addicts to crazy ones

  12. #37
    Member Top Cat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garyhead View Post
    The smell of cooking 70’s dust is so much more realistic than the smell of modern dust cooking.
    good one!
    Soundcloud page: Open Window, musical meanderings https://soundcloud.com/precipice

  13. #38
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Huh. Yeah it was a serious question.

    I never used automatic turntables, back in the day, and I knew where my spindle was (!) so none of my records -- even the ones I played TO DEATH -- had spindle marks. But hey, I guess I learned something new today. Record collectors must be pretty easy to fool about the condition of platters. Good to know.
    It's becoming apparent that your entire record purchasing has been confined to brick and mortar stores, as you are entirely unaware of the nomenclature.

    Also, you may not have rubbed the label all over the spindle, but look closely around the hole. The signs of use will be there.

    I can guarantee you that when I open a package with a used record and inspect it, when I see no signs of use around the center hole, I don't immediately think "man, I bet this has had the shit played out of it. Probably gonna be noisy as hell."

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Apparently they don't check the condition of the grooves.
    Of course, nobody said that, but nice try anyway. I've played records that looked pristine only to find that they were played on bad styluses. One cannot always immediately tell that by just looking. This idea of spindle marks is ONE indication of use, not the only.
    The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone.

  15. #40
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    Over that last 8 years or so I've been buying a lot of used records, I always take them out of the cover and visually inspect. Almost all of the Prog I'm finding is in excellent shape, I'm generalizing but appears proggers took care of their records for the most part, I know I did back in the day, I treasured most of my records.

    Jazz and hard rock for whatever reason is where I see the most beat up scratched dirty stuff, I mustva passed on 10 copies of Black Sabbaths debut before I found one in decent shape.
    A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.

  16. #41
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    I'll bet you don't.

    Let me give you an analogy. It would be like buying a used car, and instead of looking at the odometer you check for dents around the driver's door -- to see how many times the driver closed the door on the seat belt. Yeah, it's an indicator of SOMETHING... but not one that means anything.
    There's people who don't know, but they know that they don't know. Then there's some people who don't know, but they don't know that they don't know.

    You fall into the latter category.

  17. #42
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    Of course, nobody said that, but nice try anyway. I've played records that looked pristine only to find that they were played on bad styluses. One cannot always immediately tell that by just looking. This idea of spindle marks is ONE indication of use, not the only.
    Bingo. Also worth noting that it's a widely accepted indicator. Robbie-come-lately may know better than those who set the standards and practices over time, but thankfully I do not.

  18. #43
    Member moecurlythanu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post

    PS - You can stop being a condescending little twat anytime.
    But you're making it so easy. And I probably don't need to point out that that's pretty rich coming from you. Anyway, that's all from me.

  19. #44
    That's Mr. to you, Sir!! Trane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    I do kinda miss that.

    These days it’s incredibly damn easy to find any rare recording you want, with just the click of a mouse — but you miss the wonderful serendipity of discovering things you didn’t know you wanted.
    I don't miss it at all... beit for CD or vinyls, FTM.... Unless I'm in a highly specialized B&M store (for ex, a Ghent SH B&M shop where I found Kandahar's third album >> trick was that the band's homebase was Ghent >> he didn't have it on my first visit, but since I'd asked for it, he made sure it was in the bins for the next years or so) .

    And you're right, if I can find it on the web (bandcamp, vendor or even last resort, Amazon), I'm all for not wasting my time at general record fairs or general used record shops.

    I'm so tired of it that I dion't even flip in the garage sales bins (where you get probably the best find for dirt cheap)... unless the dude/owner looks like someone who has music tastes I could get along with.
    my music collection increased tenfolds when I switched from heroin-addicts to crazy ones

  20. #45
    Member nosebone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    To return this discussion back to an adult tone, “browsing vinyl racks” used to be my great joy too. You never knew, particularly with used record stores, when you’d be “flippin’ bins” and run across a rare or wonderful find. It was frustrating looking for a particular record, you could go to a dozen stores with no guarantee of finding it, but more often than not you’d come home with a dozen albums you hadn’t been looking for that were just as wonderful.

    I do kinda miss that.

    These days it’s incredibly damn easy to find any rare recording you want, with just the click of a mouse — but you miss the wonderful serendipity of discovering things you didn’t know you wanted.
    That's a big part of the ritual.., never know what your going to find while flipping.

    Last weekend I scored a sealed copy of The Good Rats Tasty album from 1974 and a sealed copy of the Boston fusion ensemble Orchestra Luna, also from 1974.

    Both well recorded and in perfect shape!
    Last edited by nosebone; 05-17-2018 at 12:13 PM.
    no tunes, no dynamics, no nosebone

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    ó but you miss the wonderful serendipity of discovering things you didnít know you wanted.
    ^^ this is so true, I never knew BloodRock 2 was proggy, or that Donald Byrd had a fusion period, etc, taking a $3 chance on something has opened my horizons many times. The affordability of used vinyl has also allowed me to become a semi-completist with Larry Coryell, Tangerine Dream, Family, Brand X, Anthony Phillips, Steeleye Span, yada yada blah blah etc.

    Speaking to browsing yard sales, one can usually tell within 25 album flips if it's gonna be a target rich use of time.
    A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.

  22. #47
    Member Lopez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raconteur troubadour View Post
    Speaking to browsing yard sales, one can usually tell within 25 album flips if it's gonna be a target rich use of time.
    Sometimes at yard sales you can tell with the first flip. That first LP is stuck to the next 25 with dried moisture and mold. As soon as I see that, I retreat from that yard sale.
    Lou

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  23. #48
    Orange Tick Squasher Buddhabreath's Avatar
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    I've largely given up the vinyl browsing after spending many hours flipping through stacks to find very little of interest or usually overpriced if it is interesting. Except for maybe the jazz section, I find that 99% of the records are the same batch of "usual suspects" I've see time and time again. Maybe I don't have the time or the patience any more. I've had better luck online and I guess I've been relatively lucky with the grading and representation being accurate for the most part.
    There are more stars in the visible universe than there are grains of sand on planet earth.

  24. #49
    Member nosebone's Avatar
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    Going to Johnnys Records in Darien Ct this afternoon.

    I haven't been there since the 80s...http://johnnysrecords.com/#
    no tunes, no dynamics, no nosebone

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by rcarlberg View Post
    Or if the first record is Frampton Comes Alive.
    Or The Eagles greatest Hits.
    The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone.

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