From the 5.00 minute mark onward, this sounds like it could have been one of the great classical pieces of music. Very exceptional.
From the 5.00 minute mark onward, this sounds like it could have been one of the great classical pieces of music. Very exceptional.
I have always thought that Vivaldi's Winter Allegro has been one of the most.. if not the most influential piece of classical music on the rock genre. Written long before Rock music was even a consideration, it has a driving 4 on the floor feel to it right out of the gate, and the absolutely ripping shredding lead violin runs that just make heads turn no matter what kind of music anyone likes. It truly is an inspiring composition that demands the utmost attention to detail from the soloist.
I hear this piece so much in the guitar playing of many of the rock and progressive rock guitarists who have ventured outside of jazz and blues and into such an arena.
If we are on the Four Seasons, German singer and multiinstrumentalist Hans Jürgen Buchner (Haindling) reworked it and combined it with his own compositions. He plays all instruments on this.
and yngwie malmsteen - but that was then... almost 35 years ago.Originally Posted by Skullhead
They aren't "playing" Beethoven's 9th. They are doing their own thing, playing a rock jam with a borrowed tune that happens to come from a classical piece. Which is fine of course, but there isn't much classical influence as such.
JS Bach had it all figured out in the early 1700s.
Very little after that would be considered "new".
Actually, Bach was considered "old fashioned" during his lifetime. Baroque music was kind of coming to an end, and other composers around him were going in "new directions". In fact, I believe Bach's death is often used to mark the end of the baroque era.
That it is - 1750.
If it isn't Krautrock, it's krap.
"And it's only the giving
That makes you what you are" - Ian Anderson
Bach was an incredible prolific genius beyond our comprehension, but if its true that he "did it all" (which I disagree with), then what would be the point of any composer who followed him? An example is Debussy - he literally reinvented what the orchestra could sound like not only in terms of textures, timbres, and colors, but harmonically speaking as well. Did he borrow from Bach? Sure, but he also paved his own way big time.
If it isn't Krautrock, it's krap.
"And it's only the giving
That makes you what you are" - Ian Anderson
Thanks. I knew he'd done quite a few commissioned pieces in the past, so I assumed that was still his main concern.
Patetica from Latte e Miele's Papillon album incorporates an interesting variation on Tchaikovsky's Pathetique Symphony. It transitions from jazzy to prolific.
Last edited by progmatist; 03-19-2018 at 03:42 PM.
"Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"--Dalai Lama
In the year 1733, he perfected and fine tuned the western chromatic scale, when he wrote The Well Tempered Clavier. That was one of the most revolutionary events in musical history.
"Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"--Dalai Lama
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart
I'd be a bit surprised if that is the case considering he is arguably the greatest composer of all time. Reference?
I can't give you a reference. But there's lots of them. Indeed, it's fairly well-known that he was considered old-fashioned in his later years - his sons, many of whom were also composers, called him "Old Perriwig". And his work was, to quite an extent, forgotten until Mendelssohn and others rediscovered it and began championing it a hundred years later.
What he's particularly noted for is summing up the language and practice of Western tonal music, as it existed in his day, in one body of work. He didn't really create anything new, in terms of forms or practices. But he used those existing forms and practices, as developed in the Baroque era, brilliantly; and created a compendium of exactly what the art of music, as he knew it, was capable of. The point, though, that some make of being able to find "everything" in his music comes down to this: In some pieces, somewhere, you can find brief passages that, in isolation, look like atonality, or Wagnerian chromaticism, or Debussyan coloristic non-functional harmony, or other modern musical practices. However, if examined in context, they reveal themselves as virtuoso examples of "correct", conventionally tonal writing - as strings and strings of suspended, unexpected, and false resolutions, of extreme appogiaturae, of remote modulations and re-modulations; but all still leading to the "correct" Baroque goal and end-point, to a mighty V7 => I in the home key.
Last edited by Baribrotzer; 03-19-2018 at 06:14 PM.
^^^
Interesting. Yes, he did not invent new genres or styles but he was certainly intensely creative and put his distinctive stamp on his work and designed some beautifully architectures that have been supremely influential. As Mozart famously said "Now there is music from which a man can learn something." Beethoven referred to him as the "The immortal god of harmony". So he was clearly was not forgotten by his most famous successors in the Romantic era. That just makes it all the more astounding that Bach had fallen into relative obscurity until Mendelssohn revived it. I would argue that most music. at least popular music today is even more conventional than Bach and returns to the home chord or note (tonic) forget about the key. That's why I can get bored of the blues very easily, if you are not an extremely creative guitarist that pentatonic scale and the 12 bar pattern is a total snooze for me. I've heard those kind of guitar players in bars many a time. He was revered and a super start in his own time. Well I guess the Beatles are old fashioned now. Fashion, schmashion!
Last edited by Buddhabreath; 03-19-2018 at 05:15 PM.
I don't know 'bout that. Just today, in the NY Times, there was an article about two brothers who busk on the subway. They play acoustic guitar and bass, and sing Beatles songs. People love them, and they pretty much make a full-time living from it.Well I guess the Beatles are old fashioned now. Fashion, schmashion!
Almost all direct attempts to fuse classical music with rock are atrocious, IMO. Thank god it mostly isn't done anymore.
Classical music's positive influence on rock is more indirect. As rock music proved its viability and interest in it bloomed in the UK and Europe, a generation of young people with a music education represented a good portion of the 1960s crop of musicians from these areas. These are the people who largely were responsible for creating progressive rock. It's always good to have a greater breadth of musical tools with which to work, so even if their music wasn't necessarily derived from classical music a familiarity with it gave them the tools to bend the boundaries of what rock music could be.
I have no musical training, but I love dissonant and aleotoric music, the crazier the better. I trained myself to love this- whether Ferneyhough or Ligeti, or Cage or Xenakis, or Japanese noise or Borbetomagus. It's all good.
I'm not lazy. I just work so fast I'm always done.
Of course.
echolyn borrowing from Stravinsky:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Sebastian_Bach
18th century
In his own time, Bach's reputation equalled those of Telemann, Graun and Handel.[166] During his life, Bach received public recognition, such as the title of court composer by Augustus III of Poland, and the appreciation he was shown by Frederick the Great and Herman Karl von Keyserling. Such highly placed appreciation contrasted with the humiliations he had to cope with, for instance in his hometown of Leipzig.[167] Also in the contemporary press, Bach had his detractors, such as Johann Adolf Scheibe, suggesting he write less complex music and his supporters such as Johann Mattheson and Lorenz Christoph Mizler.[168][169][170]
After his death, Bach's reputation as a composer at first declined: his work was regarded as old-fashioned compared to the emerging galant style.[171] Initially, he was remembered more as a virtuoso player of the organ and as a teacher. The bulk of the music that had been printed during the composer's lifetime, at least the part that was remembered, was for the organ and the harpsichord. Thus, his reputation as a composer was initially mostly limited to his keyboard music, and that even fairly limited to its value in music education.
That's quite a statement to make when the mid-20th century brought us composers like Copeland, Rodrigo, Gershwin (he did young in 1937, but had a huge influence), Stravinsky, Britten, and so on who clearly wrote music to be enjoyed by the masses. Classical, as most musical forms, became a victim of what's next (much like Baroque, Romantic, and other variations of classical had before them and most genres of any other music) and the sudden appearance of new instrumentation with the ability to record.
In 1705, the 20-year old Bach walked from Arnstadt to Lübeck – some 250 miles - and stayed nearly three months to hear and meet with Dieterich Buxtehude (1637 - 1707).
Same kind of music, but Bach was way more prolific and more 'mathematical'.
Below is arguably the best performance of Difficult to Cure, featuring a string orchestra, live in Tokyo.
"Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"--Dalai Lama
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks