Artists whose hit singles don't begin to tell the whole story

[jake]

What about Edgar Winter with Frankenstein and Free Ride being pretty much his only widely known singles.

[progeezer]

Progbear mentioned them a while back, but imo Ambrosia is the quintessential band that meets the criteria of the OP's thread title. Their pop ballads, while musically more interesting than most, pale next to music like, e.g. " Somewhere I've Never Traveled" "Cowboy Star", "The Brunt" & even "Nice Nice"

[DocProgger]

According to Wiki, each album where he was backed by Crazy Horse has at least one single culled from it's material. These include, but not limited to:

Down By The River
Cinnamon Girl
Like A Hurricane
Hey, Hey, My, My (Into The Black)
Rockin' In The Free World

and so on.

Your primary point is valid, Neil w Crazy Horse had more chart success than many realize (including songs from the classic After the Goldrush album like Southern Man, which was CH); but Rockin in the Free World and the Freedom album was actually not Crazy Horse. It was Neil and The Restless (which did include Frank Sampedro, but not Molina and Talbot). Restless included Chad Cromwell, Rick Rosas. Neil did that fantastic Eldorado EP with them right before that, and toured with the Restless as he made his return to form in the late 80s/early 90s--those shows are known for an acoustic set followed by deafening onslaughts of heavy feedback drenched electric guitar tunes. The next tour was w Crazy Horse (Smell the Horse tour/Ragged Glory album) and was even heavier (documented on Weld).

[SteveSly]

A few people mentioned Chicago as having hit singles not representative of their music overall. Scratching my head at that one. Don't see how tunes like Make Me Smile, 25 or 6 to 4, Beginnings, Does Anybody Really Know What Time it Is?, Questions 67 and 68, Saturday in the Park, Dialogue, Feelin Stronger Every Day, Just You and Me, I've Been Searchin So Long, Call on Me, Wishing You Were Here, Old Days, are not representative of what Chicago is. All stellar tunes, tunes that define the band. Of course that does not mean that is all there is, or that there is not plenty of great non hit album music to explore deeper. And yes, the 80's Chicago dominated by the Cetera tunes were more MOR soft ballad stuff, so if you just were going off those tunes, and didn't know the 69-77 run of albums, that is a different story. Most any group with decades of output can't solely be defined by their hits, but 70s Chicago is pretty darn good quality, hits and nonhits alike.

I had the same reaction. Not sure that I see it with Chicago. Granted their ballads later in their career were much different from the early stuff, but the hits were still pretty similar to the rest of the stuff on the albums.

[SteveSly]

I think his singles are really good. At least the three I know (Breaking Us In Two, You Can't Get What You Want... and the overplayed Steppin' Out) Though I used to have Night & Day, I haven't heard much else by him, although my understanding was 'Night and Day' was an improvement over prevous albums?

I agree, not really sure Joe Jackson fits this thread. Many of his hit singles were really good, and musically he was all over the place from album to album. "Night And Day" was his most popular album, but there are a lot of them I like better.

[SteveSly]

What about Pablo Cruise? Their singles were all good time party rock, but they were fantastic musicians and some of their albums had some real meat to them. The "Worlds Away" album is great, and they also wrote stuff like "Ocean Breeze" which comes pretty damn close to prog.

Since I am on a tropical theme, I am going to throw in Jimmy Buffett. Buffett is mainly known for his novelty singles ("Margaritaville", "Cheeseburger In Paradise", "Why Don't We Get Drunk And Screw" etc), but if you get into his albums, he really is capable of writing some great stuff, and he always surrounded himself with top notch musicians.

[GuitarGeek]

(including songs from the classic After the Goldrush album like Southern Man, which was CH);

I couldn't remember if he was backed by Crazy Horse on Southern Man or not, and it's been a long time since I've heard that one. I probably don't own as much Neil Young as I probably should.

but Rockin in the Free World and the Freedom album was actually not Crazy Horse.

I stand corrected. I guess I always assumed that was Crazy Horse, because it has that hard driving rock sound, and Crazy Horse seemed to be always his "go to" back up band for that sound. Given that Poncho is on that album, but not the rhythm section, I wonder if Molina and Talbot weren't otherwise engaged and were unavailable for the sessions. I know they continued to release records as Crazy Horse periodically, but with a different guitarist, so maybe they were off doing one of those things when Neil suddenly needed to rock out, as it were.

The next tour was w Crazy Horse (Smell the Horse tour/Ragged Glory album) and was even heavier (documented on Weld).

That was the tour where he had Sonic Youth opening for him, wasn't it? My brother saw that show in Indianapolis, and he thought Sonic Youth were terrible. He said he thought the guitarist was on drugs because he kept dropping his guitar or something like that.

The thing about Neil Young is, it's not so much that the singles are unrepresentative, it's that he's so confounding, in terms of jumping from genre to genre. I mean, if you put on Trans, some of the songs on that are record sound nothing like what's on any of his other records. If you put on Harvest, you're gonna hear something that's totally unlike the records he did with Crazy Horse, and so on. It's kinda mind boggling that the same guy was the mastermind behind Sugar Mountain, Like A Hurricane, Sample And Hold, This Note's For You, and Wonderin'.

You almost get the feeling he might be just messing with our heads (or at least, his A&R guys heads).

[DocProgger]

I couldn't remember if he was backed by Crazy Horse on Southern Man or not, and it's been a long time since I've heard that one. I probably don't own as much Neil Young as I probably should.

@@Yeah, After the Goldrush is a combo of a solo album but with the members of CH playing on some of the tunes, and some of the tunes are more like solo Neil and there are other backing musicians. Essential album.

-------

[re Rockin in Free World]
>>>I stand corrected. I guess I always assumed that was Crazy Horse, because it has that hard driving rock sound, and Crazy Horse seemed to be always his "go to" back up band for that sound. Given that Poncho is on that album, but not the rhythm section, I wonder if Molina and Talbot weren't otherwise engaged and were unavailable for the sessions. I know they continued to release records as Crazy Horse periodically, but with a different guitarist, so maybe they were off doing one of those things when Neil suddenly needed to rock out, as it were.

@@Easy to confuse, I thought it was CH when Rockin came out and when the album came out. Pancho actually made a comment about the Mideast around that time and Neil used that as the basis for R'in Free World, so I think Pancho got a writing credit on it. Neil had a long history of going hot and cold with CH, sometimes he just didn't feel it, sometimes it was issues with a few of them. Neil liked to change things up to "fight the rust". Like Fripp w Crimson, when the time felt right he would reconvene them. Rosas and Cromwell were a heckuva rhythm section too though. He reconvened that band for the Chrome Dreams tour about a decade ago---fantastic tour.
------------
>>>That was the tour where he had Sonic Youth opening for him, wasn't it? My brother saw that show in Indianapolis, and he thought Sonic Youth were terrible. He said he thought the guitarist was on drugs because he kept dropping his guitar or something like that.

@@ Yep, the opening bands on the Smell the Horse tour were Social Distortion and Sonic Youth, who Neil specifically picked for that tour. I went to that show, which was right after the first Gulf War started. It was one of the first concerts I went to where I felt like "an old guy", as there were many teenage and 20 something fans of those bands wearing black concert tshirts who weren't there for Neil. I was familiar w Sonic Youth but not a diehard fan at the time. Didn't know anything re Social Distortion. I remember some younger guys near us were kind of under the impression NY was washed up and past his prime, and that these younger bands would kick tail over Neil. (Remember this was on the heels of his very up and down 80s output.) I told these guys, wait till Neil and CH come out, they will bludgeon your senses. And sure enough, when they launched into Hey Hey My My etc, these younger dudes had jaws dropped open--they could not believe the volume and intensity. Neil is quoted as saying btw that during those opening months of that tour, Neil and CH would just go back to their hotel rooms and watch the Gulf War coverage on CNN, and Neil would channel his rage, anger and frustration into his guitar playing.
------------
>>>The thing about Neil Young is, it's not so much that the singles are unrepresentative, it's that he's so confounding, in terms of jumping from genre to genre. I mean, if you put on Trans, some of the songs on that are record sound nothing like what's on any of his other records. If you put on Harvest, you're gonna hear something that's totally unlike the records he did with Crazy Horse, and so on. It's kinda mind boggling that the same guy was the mastermind behind Sugar Mountain, Like A Hurricane, Sample And Hold, This Note's For You, and Wonderin'.

You almost get the feeling he might be just messing with our heads (or at least, his A&R guys heads)

@@ For me, that's exactly what makes Neil so priceless and unique. Never sitting still, always challenging himself, willing to take risks. It means some of his output is hit and miss, and like any great HOF ball player, he has slumps sometimes, but if you take it all in and go along for the whole journey, it's fascinating. Similar to Dylan in that respect. Heck, I saw Neil at the Beale St Music Festival a few years ago and his backing band were these 20 something guys (Promise of the Real) which included Willie Nelson's son. He just has that need to inject new blood into his playing sometimes. Oh, and he opened that show with a 35 minute version of Down by the River. Pure guitar jamming for over a half hour.

You also have to understand his mind sets at any given time. For instance Trans and the use of electronics and vocoders etc arose out of exploring technology to try to communicate with his severely autistic son. It's also what enables him to read and see the news
about the Kent St killings and immediately write a classic song which captures the outrage of the youth culture in one afternoon.

[Rarebird]

I think his singles are really good. At least the three I know (Breaking Us In Two, You Can't Get What You Want... and the overplayed Steppin' Out) Though I used to have Night & Day, I haven't heard much else by him, although my understanding was 'Night and Day' was an improvement over prevous albums?

Yes, his singles are very good, but his albums are just as good and often different than his singles, like his album Night music and several others, where he breaks the mold.

But well, Joe Jackson is one of my favorite musicians, who I really respect musically.

[Rarebird]

I agree, not really sure Joe Jackson fits this thread. Many of his hit singles were really good, and musically he was all over the place from album to album. "Night And Day" was his most popular album, but there are a lot of them I like better.

Still his singles don't tell the whole story, so I think he fits perfectly in this thead.

[Paul]

Jeff Beck for Hi Ho Silver Lining

[JJ88]

^Indeed, I've never liked it, and nor does he- it feels like it was a reject for one of Mickie Most's other acts like Herman's Hermits. At least the B side 'Beck's Bolero' was more in keeping with his subsequent direction- mindblowing to think that was recorded in 1966!

[JKL2000]

Pink Floyd

[ronmac]

The McCoys.

[Sturgeon's Lawyer]

I used to make mix tapes/cds very much like those Sainsbury rekkids. Though I question the West Coastliness of some of those bands (really ... Fleetwood Mac?).

[Halmyre]

Mention of Fleetwood Mac reminds me that 'Albatross' was not at all representative of the majority of their oeuvre.

[Sturgeon's Lawyer]

A few people mentioned Chicago as having hit singles not representative of their music overall. Scratching my head at that one. Don't see how tunes like Make Me Smile, 25 or 6 to 4, Beginnings, Does Anybody Really Know What Time it Is?, Questions 67 and 68, Saturday in the Park, Dialogue, Feelin Stronger Every Day, Just You and Me, I've Been Searchin So Long, Call on Me, Wishing You Were Here, Old Days, are not representative of what Chicago is. All stellar tunes, tunes that define the band. Of course that does not mean that is all there is, or that there is not plenty of great non hit album music to explore deeper. And yes, the 80's Chicago dominated by the Cetera tunes were more MOR soft ballad stuff, so if you just were going off those tunes, and didn't know the 69-77 run of albums, that is a different story. Most any group with decades of output can't solely be defined by their hits, but 70s Chicago is pretty darn good quality, hits and nonhits alike.

The thing is, all those songs (with, I suppose, the semi-exception of "Dialogue") are "normal" songwriting. They leave out the experimental side of early Chicago - songs like "Mother," "It Better End Soon," the Kath suites on II and III, the whole first side of VII, "A Hit by Varese," the "Elegy" suite, "A Song for Richard and His Friends," "Mongonucleosis"... I could go on, but what's the point?

Imagine someone who knew only the hits being exposed without warning to "Liberation" or "Free Form Guitar"...

[Vic2012]

^ Mr. Lawyer explained it perfectly.

[Ground and Sky's Ghost]

Cheap Trick, in the sense that as someone who grew up in the 80s, it was years before I realized that the band that recorded "If You Want My Love" and "The Flame" were the same guys who did "I Want You To Want Me", "Surrender" and "Dream Police".

[DocProgger]

The thing is, all those songs (with, I suppose, the semi-exception of "Dialogue") are "normal" songwriting. They leave out the experimental side of early Chicago - songs like "Mother," "It Better End Soon," the Kath suites on II and III, the whole first side of VII, "A Hit by Varese," the "Elegy" suite, "A Song for Richard and His Friends," "Mongonucleosis"... I could go on, but what's the point?

Imagine someone who knew only the hits being exposed without warning to "Liberation" or "Free Form Guitar"...

Yeah, I get what you're saying, and going strictly by the title of the thread, you're right, of course just those hit tunes don't tell the whole story. But like I said in my original post, any band with decades of output can't solely be defined by their hit tunes. Obviously Chicago had a huge amount of material worth exploring that weren't hit singles (which I acknowledged in my first post) especially given their series of double lps in the 70s. What I was trying to distinguish is that many here have thrown out bands that had a few hit singles which were completely unrepresentative of that band's music output as a whole, and I don't think Chicago falls into that category. Those tunes I cited are very representative of what Chicago's sound palette was all about, most with those signature brass charts. Make Me Smile and Colour My World were part of a larger suite as you mentioned and became hits. Beginnings and Dialogue were longer album tracks that were somewhat untraditional and still were hits. Their suites tended to be traditional songs linked together with instrumental passages in many cases.

But yeah, especially early on they explored a lot of stuff beyond the standard 4 min pop tune that would be eye opening to someone who *only* had a copy of a greatest hits compilation and never heard a note otherwise. I guess as someone who started getting into Chicago circa 1972-73, and followed them yearly, album by album, I never thought of them as a hit singles band since I was listening to the albums as a whole pretty early on, so I was listening to the hits always in the context of the albums anyway. Same with Neil Young.

[bigbassdrum]

To some extent ...
Phil Collins
Peter Gabriel

[Progbear]

Mentioning Jennifer Warnes here just because of the parallel thread.

Might as well throw Kiki Dee in here too. She’s another one like another one of those “there’s a thread on them on this page” artists, Sparks, who created some of her best work late in life:

[GuitarGeek]

Mention of Fleetwood Mac reminds me that 'Albatross' was not at all representative of the majority of their oeuvre.

And the Buckingham/Nicks era doesn't represent the original band's music. Today I heard Rhiannon at work (panelist note: Firefox isn't trying to tell me that I misspelled Rhiannon), and I thought "Why can't they ever played The Green Manilishi?!".

Cheap Trick, in the sense that as someone who grew up in the 80s, it was years before I realized that the band that recorded "If You Want My Love" and "The Flame" were the same guys who did "I Want You To Want Me", "Surrender" and "Dream Police".

Well, in the early 80's, MTV was regularly showing clips from a Cheap Trick concert they aired, so I knew from the get go that I Want You To Want Me, Surrender, Dream Police, and If You Want My Love were all the same band.

Kiki Dee

For ages, I only knew her as one Elton's co-conspirator in his attempt to pass himself off as straight. Then when we first started getting VH-1 Classic on our cable service, a couple times, I saw a clip, I think from Musik Laden, of her doing a song called I Got The Music In Me (which I've more recently seen sung by McKenzie Phillips in a One Day At A Time rerun). I don't think I've heard anything by her besides those two songs.

[SteveSly]

Cheap Trick, in the sense that as someone who grew up in the 80s, it was years before I realized that the band that recorded "If You Want My Love" and "The Flame" were the same guys who did "I Want You To Want Me", "Surrender" and "Dream Police".

Interesting. I always thought Cheap Trick pretty much wore their hearts on their sleeves with their singles and the album tracks were not all that much different.

[DocProgger]

For ages, I only knew her as one Elton's co-conspirator in his attempt to pass himself off as straight. Then when we first started getting VH-1 Classic on our cable service, a couple times, I saw a clip, I think from Musik Laden, of her doing a song called I Got The Music In Me (which I've more recently seen sung by McKenzie Phillips in a One Day At A Time rerun). I don't think I've heard anything by her besides those two songs.

So you're saying Kiki Dee was a beard? Thousands and thousands of musical artists do duets together. Why would you conclude that Elton wanted people to think he was straight simply because he sung a tune with her? According to wiki she had sung background vocals for Elton on several records including Goodbye Yellow Brick Road. He had done duets with Lennon in the 70s--should we conclude Lennon was gay? I just remember thinking when I first saw the duet, "who the heck is this Kiki Dee?" and then remembered that I've Got the Music In Me hit which predated the Elton duet by a few years. And on the "man I'm getting old" front, I see that Kiki Dee is now 71 years old....