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Thread: Yes- "Dear Father"

  1. #1
    Member whoislikegod's Avatar
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    Yes- "Dear Father"

    I've not listened to "Yesterdays" in years but I just picked up a clean, vinyl copy and gave it a spin last night. I've always wondered what the story is with "Dear Father" and its sound quality/source tape. When I first heard it on CD back in the 90s, I noticed that it sounds like it was lifted from a defective source (or so it seems) as it sounded draggy or even like warped vinyl in comparison to the other "Time and a Word" era tracks. Turns out this was true on the original vinyl as well. Does anyone know the story on this one?

  2. #2
    Is it possible they just transcribed the audio from the single release? Yesterdays was a pretty cash-in-y release, so I wouldn’t put it past them, even if it was Atlantic.
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  3. #3
    (not his real name) no.nine's Avatar
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    On the original Atlantic CD, I thought it sounded like it was taken from an ever so slightly off center record. But it was slight enough that I wasn't certain I was hearing it. Sometimes I sensed it, sometimes I didn't. I don't notice it on the '94 Gastwirt remaster, so maybe it's from a better source there. Or maybe my ears are just unreliable!!
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  4. #4
    All the songs except "America" sound horrendous, like they put them through a cheap phase shifter. Some sound even worse than others, but all are effected. Strangely, on the original releases ("Yes", "Time and a Word") the songs sound fine. I've inquired about this before but can never get a straight answer.
    It baffles me how a renowned label like Atlantic could release this mess. Just take a listen to "Survival" and you'll hear what I mean, especially towards the end of the song.
    I'm also surprised more people haven't brought this up. I have the vinyl and several CD reissues and all have the same issue. Why didn't they just substitute the horrible mixes with the originals on the CD releases?
    Very puzzling...

  5. #5
    The 2003 expanded CD offers 2 alternate versions of "Dear Father".

    Henry
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  6. #6
    Member Gizmotron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bondegezou View Post
    The 2003 expanded CD offers 2 alternate versions of "Dear Father".

    Henry
    An excellent disc, that.

  7. #7
    The reason I own Yesterdays is because I own the old Japanese issues of the Banks/Kaye albums and the Gastwirt remaster of Fragile, and I didn’t want to “upgrade,” yet I still wanted “Dear Father” and “America.” Considering downgrading to the Gastwirt master of Close to the Edge, since the Rhino sounds more like a remix to me, and the bonus tracks are worthless.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by the winter tree View Post
    It baffles me how a renowned label like Atlantic could release this mess..
    "A renowned label". Like that's supposed to somehow mean they're not above putting out a cheap throwaway compilation for the purposes of exploiting record buyers. I can totally buy them not putting any serious effort into locating the master tape of an obscure B-side, and instead just doing a needle drop (how common were copies of that particular single?). That's the way they did things like that back then.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    "A renowned label". Like that's supposed to somehow mean they're not above putting out a cheap throwaway compilation for the purposes of exploiting record buyers. I can totally buy them not putting any serious effort into locating the master tape of an obscure B-side, and instead just doing a needle drop (how common were copies of that particular single?). That's the way they did things like that back then.
    It wasnt, as I stated above, just the "Dear Father" track that sounded like shit. All the others except "America" sound dreadful. And they were all from the first two albums which sound fine.
    I'm glad you found my comment about Atlantic so comical.

  10. #10
    I just compared the Yesterdays cd (Gastwirt) and the Rhino remaster of the 2nd album which has the same mix of Dear Father and I found that the Yesterdays version runs too slow by quite a bit. Same with my old Yesterdays LP.

    It needs to be speed corrected up about 3.5% to get it to match close to concert pitch. A big difference in sound, obviously. So the Rhino cd of Time and A Word is the one to get for Dear Father.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by the winter tree View Post
    It wasnt, as I stated above, just the "Dear Father" track that sounded like shit. All the others except "America" sound dreadful. And they were all from the first two albums which sound fine.
    I'm glad you found my comment about Atlantic so comical.
    I'm just saying Atlantic weren't above putting out low rent compilations with sub par sound.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by ledsox View Post
    I just compared the Yesterdays cd (Gastwirt) and the Rhino remaster of the 2nd album which has the same mix of Dear Father and I found that the Yesterdays version runs too slow by quite a bit. Same with my old Yesterdays LP.

    It needs to be speed corrected up about 3.5% to get it to match close to concert pitch. A big difference in sound, obviously. So the Rhino cd of Time and A Word is the one to get for Dear Father.
    The question I suppose one would ask is, how does it sound the single? Maybe the Yesterdays release simply copied the speed that was on the original single. Maybe someone (the producer on the original record?) thought it would sound better running a little slower.

    Strange that the song would have been slowed down on Yesterdays. Typically, if anything, you hear stories of songs being sped up, as in the case with a couple of the tracks on Miles Davis' Kind Of Blue, and some of the Chess records stuff. I think Tom Dowd suggested he sped up some of the tracks on Layla And Other Assorted Love Songs.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    The question I suppose one would ask is, how does it sound the single? Maybe the Yesterdays release simply copied the speed that was on the original single. Maybe someone (the producer on the original record?) thought it would sound better running a little slower.

    Strange that the song would have been slowed down on Yesterdays. Typically, if anything, you hear stories of songs being sped up, as in the case with a couple of the tracks on Miles Davis' Kind Of Blue, and some of the Chess records stuff. I think Tom Dowd suggested he sped up some of the tracks on Layla And Other Assorted Love Songs.
    Good point. YT to the rescue. This plays as the Rhino cd does...natural pitch.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Progbear View Post
    since the Rhino sounds more like a remix to me, and the bonus tracks are worthless.
    With some variation, I think the Rhinos sound good, and there are some great bonus tracks on some of them.

    Henry
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  15. #15
    Still, I wonder why most of the songs have that weird phase shifter sound. Songs like LZ's "Hey,Hey,What Can I Do" and Sabbath's "Swinging the Chain" we're slowed way down but don't have that phasing issue.

  16. #16
    Member whoislikegod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the winter tree View Post
    Still, I wonder why most of the songs have that weird phase shifter sound. Songs like LZ's "Hey,Hey,What Can I Do" and Sabbath's "Swinging the Chain" we're slowed way down but don't have that phasing issue.
    The youtube video (thanks ledsox) does sound like it is at correct speed (unlike my Yesterdays CD and vinyl) BUT I still hear what you are describing ("weird phase shifter") on the single.

  17. #17
    Listen to "Survival" on Yesterdays, by the time it gets around to the "and we're all going somewhere" part it's phasing in and out quite drastically.

  18. #18
    It's obvious that when Yesterdays was first released, Atlantic Records used 'nth' generation masters from the first two Yes albums (or used the 'best available' 45 of "Dear Father" they could find). This explains that 'phasing effect' that you hear on tracks like "Survival". There would've been a lot of complaints about the album's sound quality if the internet was around for either the original 1975 release or the mid '90s "remaster" of Yesterdays.

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    I can't understand why the only other non-album track* 'Something's Coming' wasn't included on this. Instead, other than the (flop, so it was quite rare) original single it remained unavailable on anything until the early 90s. I think I'd have included it instead of 'Then', as the album is already heavy on Time And A Word tracks.

    *I'm aware the B-side version of 'Everydays' is different to the TAAW version, too, but still.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by whoislikegod View Post
    The youtube video (thanks ledsox) does sound like it is at correct speed (unlike my Yesterdays CD and vinyl) BUT I still hear what you are describing ("weird phase shifter") on the single.
    Keep in mind that many who post copyrighted material on YT alter the speed to skirt around the laws.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    I can't understand why the only other non-album track* 'Something's Coming' wasn't included on this. Instead, other than the (flop, so it was quite rare) original single it remained unavailable on anything until the early 90s. I think I'd have included it instead of 'Then', as the album is already heavy on Time And A Word tracks.
    +1
    I'd actually have included it over Dear Father.

  22. #22
    Atlantic needed Yes product for 1975 while the band was on a break, so I'm sure they put it together as quickly as they could. It is the mix of "America" that I prefer, however.

  23. #23
    Jazzbo manqué Mister Triscuits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by profusion View Post
    Atlantic needed Yes product for 1975 while the band was on a break, so I'm sure they put it together as quickly as they could.
    If Yesterdays had been intended to fill the long gap between Relayer and Going for the One, surely it would have been conceived and released much later. As it is, the LP bears a 1974 copyright date and appeared only three months after Relayer, while the latter was still in the charts.
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  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Progbear View Post
    Considering downgrading to the Gastwirt master of Close to the Edge, since the Rhino sounds more like a remix to me, and the bonus tracks are worthless.
    Just get the original 1980's Atlantic cd of "Close to the Edge." Or the Japan 32XD. It sounds amazing.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by JJ88 View Post
    There were a few of these (sometimes thrown together!) collections for prog groups in the early 70s- Relics,
    Yeah, Relics was a weird collection. It manages to include Arnold Layne, but not it's B-side, Candy And A Currant Bun. It also manages to not have Apples And Oranges, It Would Be So Nice, nor Point Me At The Sky, but it does include the respective B-sides from each of those singles. How the frell do you explain that?!

    The most galling of all is that the studio version of Careful With That Axe Eugene ain't all that great. Maybe it's a somewhat better than the original single version of Dark Star, both pieces turned into absolute monsters onstage, something not even hinted at by their respective studio incarnations.

    And of course, Relics has Biding My Time, which wasn't available anywhere else. And it had the faded out version of Interstellar Overdrive, which apparently came from the master of the original US edition of Piper At The Gates Of Dawn, in case you really wanted to hear what sounds like (big whoop, if you ask me).

    The when they put out another Pink Floyd compilation, Works, they still didn't get right, this time leaving out all the B-sides, and including more album tracks. But again, you've got Embryo, a song that couldn't get anywhere else (well, unless you wanted to pay what I assume was astronomical prices for the Picnic various artists thing).

    It's a moot point nowadays, as I guess all of it's on that big Early Years boxset, isn't it?

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