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Thread: MLB 2018

  1. #1151
    Quote Originally Posted by progeezer View Post
    OK, you win. I should have studied semantics more.
    There's no win. It's a discussion. You were mistaken, that's all.

    EDIT:
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  2. #1152
    The current MLB rules treat a catch the same whether the ball is fair or foul with regard to reaching over or falling over a fence/stands. I have seen no valid argument for bball to change that consistent rule and add confusion and another "catch rule" controversy in pro sports.

  3. #1153
    Fuck the current rules.
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  4. #1154
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  5. #1155
    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    If you hit a ball over the fence and it lands on the other side of it, it should be a home run.

    If the outfielder catches the ball over the fence and he also goes over the fence, both landing on the other side in home run territory, it's a HR.

    The momentum play would not apply. If the outfielder comes in contact with the ball before it goes over the fence and they both clear the fence, I would call that a double.
    Just to be clear, and since another thread just got shut down over another endless semantical argument. Notice my post. ( Emphasis added.) I am not stating these are the rules. I am stating what I think the rules should be.
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  6. #1156
    Geriatric Anomaly progeezer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    There's no win. It's a discussion. You were mistaken, that's all.

    EDIT:
    NO ONE is mistaken. It's a discussion.
    "My choice early in life was either to be a piano player in a whorehouse or a politician, and to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference"

    President Harry S. Truman

  7. #1157
    Quote Originally Posted by progeezer View Post
    NO ONE is mistaken. It's a discussion.
    Okay, let me try to make it a bit more clear:

    Quote Originally Posted by progeezer View Post
    You see fair territory as different from foul territory. I don't get the logic, but .
    I countered that I was discussing balls in play and HR territory, not fair and foul. You were mistaken.

    So, yes, even you can make a mistake. Get over yourself.

    Oh yeah, the obligatory

    Now, can we move on?
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  8. #1158
    Geriatric Anomaly progeezer's Avatar
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    We can move on quite easily as soon as you acknowledge that I do comment and have commented on my fallibility here when warranted and I'm not sure I've ever seen you do that, Ron. But, relatively speaking, there are enough assholes far worse than you or me on this site, so fuck it.

    No obligatory emoticon.
    "My choice early in life was either to be a piano player in a whorehouse or a politician, and to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference"

    President Harry S. Truman

  9. #1159
    Oh, I've been wrong many times and will continue to be. I didn't realize you followed me so closely, though.
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  10. #1160
    Member proggy_jazzer's Avatar
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    It seems to me that either situation (catching a foul ball in the stands or a home run in the stands) constitute making an effort to catch a ball in play. If an out is recorded when someone tumbles into the stands catching it, an out should be recorded if a player were to do the same catching what would have been a home run. The height of the outfield fences in almost all ML parks make the latter unlikely in the extreme, though.
    David
    Happy with what I have to be happy with.

  11. #1161
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Good grief. Can we not discuss anything without argument? C'mon, guys.


    FWIW, I do agree with Ron, here. I would treat a foul ball and a HR differently. There is no need to keep a foul ball in play - it's foul, regardless. A home run, on the other hand, is only a home run because it doesn't land on the field of play. It safely travels over the fence, out of play. Therefore, if a player catches the ball but doesn't prevent it from leaving the field of play, it should be considered a home run. In my opinion. The goal of the fielder is to keep the ball in play. The fielder doesn't have that goal on a foul ball.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  12. #1162
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    Good grief. Can we not discuss anything without argument? C'mon, guys.


    FWIW, I do agree with Ron, here. I would treat a foul ball and a HR differently. There is no need to keep a foul ball in play - it's foul, regardless. A home run, on the other hand, is only a home run because it doesn't land on the field of play. It safely travels over the fence, out of play. Therefore, if a player catches the ball but doesn't prevent it from leaving the field of play, it should be considered a home run. In my opinion. The goal of the fielder is to keep the ball in play. The fielder doesn't have that goal on a foul ball.
    Yep, that's the way I see it. No mistake about it.
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  13. #1163
    Member proggy_jazzer's Avatar
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    But when does a ball leave the field of play? Is when it touches the ground (or a fan) beyond the fence, or is it an NFL-like "crosses the plane" thing? Asking honestly.
    David
    Happy with what I have to be happy with.

  14. #1164
    I'm here for the moosic NogbadTheBad's Avatar
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    Never understood the catch counting when you fall out of the field of play, may as well stand in the seats and catch it, in cricket if you catch it at the boundary but go over the rope its a 6.
    Ian

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  15. #1165
    Quote Originally Posted by proggy_jazzer View Post
    But when does a ball leave the field of play? Is when it touches the ground (or a fan) beyond the fence, or is it an NFL-like "crosses the plane" thing? Asking honestly.
    When it lands. There is no plane to cross, as many balls are caught over the fence.

    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    Never understood the catch counting when you fall out of the field of play, may as well stand in the seats and catch it, in cricket if you catch it at the boundary but go over the rope its a 6.
    Exactly my point. It's a dumb rule, IMO.
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  16. #1166
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    Never understood the catch counting when you fall out of the field of play, may as well stand in the seats and catch it, in cricket if you catch it at the boundary but go over the rope its a 6.
    Right. In hockey, if the goalie "makes the save" but the puck in his glove crosses the goal line, it's a goal.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  17. #1167
    Quote Originally Posted by NogbadTheBad View Post
    Never understood the catch counting when you fall out of the field of play, may as well stand in the seats and catch it.
    But there is a distinction between catching a ball in play while leaping or falling and having your momentum carry you into the stands or over a fence, and simply leaving the field of play and running up into the stands to catch a ball. You can't do the latter. I get the impression from some comments here that people think the 3B can go sit in the 1st row and catch a foul ball for an out. I hope they realize that you can't do that. Nor can you stand behind the OF wall and catch a HR ball for an out. This is how the NFL catch rule got all screwed up. People trying to account for and legislate the one in a million unlikely scenario, and changing perfectly understandable rules to account for those few rare situations. The rule is fine and doesn't need changing. It's consistent and has worked for decades.

  18. #1168
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocProgger View Post
    The rule is fine and doesn't need changing. It's consistent and has worked for decades.

    In your opinion.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  19. #1169
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    Right. In hockey, if the goalie "makes the save" but the puck in his glove crosses the goal line, it's a goal.
    Hockey uses an imaginary plane as the demarcation for a score, as does football. Baseball does not. Otherwise every single "reach over the fence" foul ball caught would not really be outs, and every spectacular leaping reach over the OF wall game saving catch depriving someone of a HR would also have to be called HRs and not catches, because reaching over "breaks the plane." Surely you understand that distinction.

    If bball had a "break the plane" rule, imagine the endless ridiculous replay reviews that would spawn as umps standing in the IF would now have to judge if a catch was made before it "broke the plane of the wall" for a HR or not (and to determine if a foul ball broke the plane of the fence/wall). It would be absurd.
    Last edited by DocProgger; 07-06-2018 at 11:34 AM.

  20. #1170
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Sure. I completely understand the distinction. But do you understand the similarities?

    The goalie's job is to keep the puck out of the net. Part of the fielder's goal is to keep the ball in play.

    I get the argument on both sides. But I just think that, if the ball lands on the other side of the fence, it should be a home run - regardless of whether it's in a fielder's glove or not. Once the ball leaves the field of play (or lands outside of the field of play, if you prefer), it should be a home run.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  21. #1171
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    Sure. I completely understand the distinction. But do you understand the similarities?

    The goalie's job is to keep the puck out of the net. Part of the fielder's goal is to keep the ball in play.

    I get the argument on both sides. But I just think that, if the ball lands on the other side of the fence, it should be a home run - regardless of whether it's in a fielder's glove or not. Once the ball leaves the field of play (or lands outside of the field of play, if you prefer), it should be a home run.
    I don't see any need for all sports to have the same rules. They are different sports.
    So you really are arguing for a "break the plane" rule, and not just talking about the one in a million situation where a player catches a HR ball and lands over the fence holding the ball? (which is what I thought your original Q was about). Just think about the can of worms that would open up and the increase in even more replay reviews. No thanks.

  22. #1172
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocProgger View Post
    I don't see any need for all sports to have the same rules. They are different sports.
    So you really are arguing for a "break the plane" rule, and not just talking about the one in a million situation where a player catches a HR ball and lands over the fence holding the ball? (which is what I thought your original Q was about). Just think about the can of worms that would open up and the increase in even more replay reviews. No thanks.
    No, I'm arguing for a "if the ball lands over the fence, it's a HR" rule. "The plane" has nothing to do with it. There would be no replay issues whatsoever.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

  23. #1173
    Geriatric Anomaly progeezer's Avatar
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    Regardless of which side of the fence you're on (I thought of that all by myself), this discussion has definitely run its course.
    "My choice early in life was either to be a piano player in a whorehouse or a politician, and to tell the truth, there's hardly any difference"

    President Harry S. Truman

  24. #1174
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Bails View Post
    No, I'm arguing for a "if the ball lands over the fence, it's a HR" rule. "The plane" has nothing to do with it. There would be no replay issues whatsoever.
    Ok, then I guess I'm missing the point of the hockey goalie analogy. So even if the player successfully catches the ball while leaping in the field of play, and secures the ball in his glove and never drops it, if he somehow lands over the fence due to his momentum from running/leaping still holding the ball in glove, you want that to be called a HR. And that would include a few minor league catches I think I've seen where a player caught the ball robbing someone of a HR, crashing into the fence which then broke/fell apart, yet still held onto the ball. Because the fence failed, you would have to call that a HR because the ball "landed" on the other side (still in the glove). To me it's simply a catch is a catch, but we'll have to agree to disagree.
    Last edited by DocProgger; 07-06-2018 at 12:49 PM.

  25. #1175
    Studmuffin Scott Bails's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocProgger View Post
    we'll have to agree to disagree.
    Most definitely.
    Music isn't about chops, or even about talent - it's about sound and the way that sound communicates to people. Mike Keneally

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