AAJ Review: King Crimson, Sailors' Tales 1970-1972

[JKL2000]

That is usually my feeling, too. These guys (and others) put in a remarkable amount of blood and sweat, and hours, hours and more hours beyond what most folks actually realize to make boxes like this as strong and comprehensive as they are. As a reviewer, I always feel they deserve no less in return, and while I don’t expect everyone to be as pathological as I am (!), it does rankle me a bit when someone gets a gratis copy of the box for review and delivers a whopping 500-750 words on the subject (referring to online, of course, since print is intrinsically limited, for the most part). With something this massive, it deserves similar treatment...even if I’d not expect most to deliver almost 10,000 words! ��

Thanks, as ever, for the kind words too!

John, have you ever gotten feedback on your reviews from any of the members of King Crimson or their management? I'm sure you have from Burning Shed or Panegyric or whatever since you communicate with them when planning to review something, but I'm wondering if the Crim camp has acknowledged it.

[Dave (in MA)]

All of the Blu-Rays from this set will not play on my laptop's player, only my player hooked up to the TV will play them. I double-checked to see if my player was defective, but the Monkey Mind Blu-Ray plays just fine. I wonder if they used some sort of advanced features that befuddles some setups?

[jkelman]

John, have you ever gotten feedback on your reviews from any of the members of King Crimson or their management? I'm sure you have from Burning Shed or Panegyric or whatever since you communicate with them when planning to review something, but I'm wondering if the Crim camp has acknowledged it.

Well, I deal directly with Panegyric on these boxes, so on that front: yes. I’ve also heard, depending on lineup, from some band members. I also know, from one of them, that Fripp is, at least, aware of my work ... and appears to like it. I met David Singleton for the first time this past summer, but I get the feeling he keeps busy with his work with Crimson (as its official ninth member), so never set any expectations. I used to deal with previous tour management also, but now go through the label and, occasionally, the current band member with whom I’ve exchanged emails most often.

So yeah, I’ve had a nice amount of feedback from Crimson members past and present...and, sometimes' Steven Wilson as well. I don’t expect it, and I certainly don’t fish for it, but it's always a nice little boost when I get it. Plus, I get silent kudos when Robert and Patricia, as they have sometimes done, shared my reviews on Facebook. And I also appreciate Sid Smith's posting my reviews at DGM - this one, not yet but it's the weekend and I suspect (though I never expect) that it’ll show up sometime in the next few days, if I’m lucky.

But also, the label gives me some priority - knowing how extensively I cover their releases - usually getting me the music with plenty of time to absorb it (this time being a rare but understandably unavoidable exception).

So all in all, I couldn’t be a happier guy when it comes to working with Crimson. Professional, friendly and ever-accommodating, I couldn’t ask for better.

[jkelman]

All of the Blu-Rays from this set will not play on my laptop's player, only my player hooked up to the TV will play them. I double-checked to see if my player was defective, but the Monkey Mind Blu-Ray plays just fine. I wonder if they used some sort of advanced features that befuddles some setups?

I’ve no idea. I do know the guy who authors them (and probably others) stay on top of the technology and so what you suggest may be possible. Drag....sorry to hear it.

[Baribrotzer]

....As for the Brecker comment? Ok, a bit of hyperbolic liberty, and I’m sure Mel, a pretty humble guy, would, indeed, absolutely disagree. But I felt it important to point out that Collins has far more going on than to which he has largely been ascribed...though the current band is, indeed, helping to fix that. Part of the comparison, though, was because, like Brecker, Mel has serious jazz chops...and has also appeared on more rock/pop records than I can count. In other words, many people may not know his name but, like Brecker, they’ve almost certainly heard him.....
Cheers!
John

Tom Scott might be a better parallel.

Like Collins, Scott has a jazz background (alto with Don Ellis's early small group and big band), and like Collins, he found success in pop music as a soloist-for-hire. But in the process of succeeding in the music business, both may have lost a certain amount of their jazz skills. The one time I heard Mel Collins live - which was on the septet tour a few years back - most of the solos he played were squawking blues pentatonics, of the sort that have clearly paid his bills for the last forty years. Only on baritone, on "The Letters", did he seem to go beyond that, which might have been because there isn't much demand for baritone solos in pop music, and thus he didn't have a "hap'nin'" commercial sound, or a commercial set of licks prepared on that particular horn.

[jkelman]

Tom Scott might be a better parallel.

Like Collins, Scott has a jazz background (alto with Don Ellis's early small group and big band), and like Collins, he found success in pop music as a soloist-for-hire. But in the process of succeeding in the music business, both may have lost a certain amount of their jazz skills. The one time I heard Mel Collins live - which was on the septet tour a few years back - most of the solos he played were squawking blues pentatonics, of the sort that have clearly paid his bills for the last forty years. Only on baritone, on "The Letters", did he seem to go beyond that, which might have been because there isn't much demand for baritone solos in pop music, and thus he didn't have a "hap'nin'" commercial sound, or a commercial set of licks prepared on that particular horn.

You may be right about Scott, but I’ll argue about Collins' current playing. While he has a few things (usually quotes) that he throws on irrespective of horn or flute, I’d wager that what he plays is not because he falls into predictable patterns on every horn but bari; while I know each horn requires different approaches, if he still has the language to do what he does on bari, I suspect he can apply it to any of his horns. Or flutes.

More likely, he plays what he thinks the songs demand, and "The Letters" would be far less without that extreme, free-wheeling middle section.

[jkelman]

John, have you ever gotten feedback on your reviews from any of the members of King Crimson or their management? I'm sure you have from Burning Shed or Panegyric or whatever since you communicate with them when planning to review something, but I'm wondering if the Crim camp has acknowledged it.

Just a quick update on this; just discovered that my review was shared on Robert's FB page. Am not 100% sure if he posts personally, but nevertheless I’ll bet he doesn’t have anything put up there that he doesn’t approve....so, I take that as a compliment by proxy!

[Dave (in MA)]

Just hope that you don't end up with a nickname like Clueless & Slightly Slack.

[unclemeat]

my review was shared on Robert's FB page. Am not 100% sure if he posts personally, but nevertheless I’ll bet he doesn’t have anything put up there that he doesn’t approve....so, I take that as a compliment by proxy!

Make one slight mistake, and you'll know for sure if it's him.

[jkelman]

Make one slight mistake, and you'll know for sure if it's him.

Truthfully? Indirectly, I’ve been very well treated, so I’ve no complains.

[jkelman]

Make one slight mistake, and you'll know for sure if it's him.

Well, I’m also chuffed to see that Sid Smith has graciously put the review up at DGMLive.

But I’m particularly pleased that he referred to the review as "exhaustive," rather than "exhausting."

Thank you, Sid, for being gentle...I still owe you many

[unclemeat]

Not within my experience. On the other hand, sometimes he might have been a bit too quiet.
To return to the current topic : the dry hint of a curt nod, while being a means of deferring judgment, is sometimes too imprecise. It might rather be a means of avoiding saying anything nice. Excessive concision sometimes misses the mark entirely. The essence of all grandiloquent discourse is disproportion. It is not always a matter of being emphatic. One can also be heavily expressive, and therefore disclose more than one wishes, by saying far too little, using stereotypes, or conceding less than is deserved.
This is a common fault of certain "spiritual persons", for example the puritan cold fish persuaded of doing you good by never "feeding your vanity". For them, overt pleasantness - like laughter, as described by the devil in C.S. Lewis' Screwtape Letters - "is of itself disgusting and a direct insult to the realism, dignity, and austerity of Hell".

Discrimination is a fine art, and aptly expressed "good criticism" is extremely rare : it is able to put the reader in medias res, as it were. It is not a substitute for the actual experience of course, nor a faithful description of "what it's like", nor an honest and precise inventory of "just the facts, ma'am". Like a good haiku, discrimination can provide, briefly and sideways, a feel for the reality of its object. If any.
There is such a "spot on" fresh observation in this review : "while the subsequent Larks' Tongues In Aspic band would ultimately garner the reputation as Crimson's most improv-heavy (and, for many, best) lineup, this [Islands lineup] was, indeed, [King Crimson] at its most unfettered and experimental..." They were not afraid of letting their trousers down. Sadly they never played 'Moonchild'.
The 1969 Crimson's improvisations (what little is known of them) seemed intent on destroying something, a tabula rasa with a touch of perversity, "an attack on culture" à la Derek Bailey and cohorts. In 1971-72, they were rather a humorous attempt to construct something unstable. Hence the jazz feel. A seeming desire to build something solid, to "tell the truth", even to "compose" on the fly, has since then prevailed.

[JKL2000]

Make one slight mistake, and you'll know for sure if it's him.

Not within my experience. On the other hand, sometimes he might have been a bit too quiet.

What was the situation to which you're referring? You're referring to some interaction with Robert Fripp?

[jkelman]

Not within my experience. On the other hand, sometimes he might have been a bit too quiet.
To return to the current topic : the dry hint of a curt nod, while being a means of deferring judgment, is sometimes too imprecise. It might rather be a means of avoiding saying anything nice. Excessive concision sometimes misses the mark entirely. The essence of all grandiloquent discourse is disproportion. It is not always a matter of being emphatic. One can also be heavily expressive, and therefore disclose more than one wishes, by saying far too little, using stereotypes, or conceding less than is deserved.
This is a common fault of certain "spiritual persons", for example the puritan cold fish persuaded of doing you good by never "feeding your vanity". For them, overt pleasantness - like laughter, as described by the devil in C.S. Lewis' Screwtape Letters - "is of itself disgusting and a direct insult to the realism, dignity, and austerity of Hell".

Discrimination is a fine art, and aptly expressed "good criticism" is extremely rare : it is able to put the reader in medias res, as it were. It is not a substitute for the actual experience of course, nor a faithful description of "what it's like", nor an honest and precise inventory of "just the facts, ma'am". Like a good haiku, discrimination can provide, briefly and sideways, a feel for the reality of its object. If any.
There is such a "spot on" fresh observation in this review : "while the subsequent Larks' Tongues In Aspic band would ultimately garner the reputation as Crimson's most improv-heavy (and, for many, best) lineup, this [Islands lineup] was, indeed, [King Crimson] at its most unfettered and experimental..." They were not afraid of letting their trousers down. Sadly they never played 'Moonchild'.
The 1969 Crimson's improvisations (what little is known of them) seemed intent on destroying something, a tabula rasa with a touch of perversity, "an attack on culture" à la Derek Bailey and cohorts. In 1971-72, they were rather a humorous attempt to construct something unstable. Hence the jazz feel. A seeming desire to build something solid, to "tell the truth", even to "compose" on the fly, has since then prevailed.

Not sure where all this is coming from (?); is this you, or something coming from somewhere else?

Either way, appreciate citing

There is such a "spot on" fresh observation in this review : "while the subsequent Larks' Tongues In Aspic band would ultimately garner the reputation as Crimson's most improv-heavy (and, for many, best) lineup, this [Islands lineup] was, indeed, [King Crimson] at its most unfettered and experimental..."

I really do, after listening to this box almost exclusively, since October 30 (some, in the weeks leading up to that date), feel that what I wrote is the absolute truth....

So thanks...I think...

[unclemeat]

Not sure where all this is coming from (?); is this you, or something coming from somewhere else?

My guilty delight in wiseacring. Hey, it's sunday !

You're referring to some interaction with Robert Fripp?

No.

[jkelman]

My guilty delight in wiseacring. Hey, it's sunday !

Ah..Sorry....still recovering from writing (second day in bed), so not quite as sharp (if I am at all!) as usual..

Enjoy your Sunday!
John

[Halmyre]

Make one slight mistake, and you'll know for sure if it's him.

Yes, you'll wake up hanging by your ankles from a meat hook while Uncle Bob whets the scaling knife.

[unclemeat]

^Luxury !

[trondis23]

Nice review, John. Unfortunately for me the price of the box is way too high for me. Earthbound expanded could be an alternative. But I have listened to this before, back when it was released the first time. That must have been around 45 years back. But I think I remember quite well why I didn't buy it. I was a great KC fan then, and would normally buy anything they released. But I was very disappointed. I found the improvised pieces very boring, with a lot of jamming over one chord grooves. Some of the singing was appalling, KC shouldn't sound like a Hey Babalooba band. There was a long drum solo processed through a synth, probably in Groon. That sounded awful. Sailors Tale was cut in the middle of the solo. Schizoid man had some terrible singing as well, and I think that the voice also was distorted by the VCS3 synth. It didn't help that everything sounded heavily distorted. If I remember correctly the liner notes said that it was recorded on cassette from the back of a truck. I guess that modern technology can't save that. But the actual music was the main reason I didn't like it. And I think that Earthbound is the reason why the Island group got the reputation of being a bad group. Hopefully the box will correct that impression. Islands and the albums that preceded it is my favourite KC period, and I especially like Fripp's guitar playing at that time.

Is there anything in the expanded version that should make me reconsider my opinion of Earthbound?

[jkelman]

Nice review, John. Unfortunately for me the price of the box is way too high for me. Earthbound expanded could be an alternative. But I have listened to this before, back when it was released the first time. That must have been around 45 years back. But I think I remember quite well why I didn't buy it. I was a great KC fan then, and would normally buy anything they released. But I was very disappointed. I found the improvised pieces very boring, with a lot of jamming over one chord grooves. Some of the singing was appalling, KC shouldn't sound like a Hey Babalooba band. There was a long drum solo processed through a synth, probably in Groon. That sounded awful. Sailors Tale was cut in the middle of the solo. Schizoid man had some terrible singing as well, and I think that the voice also was distorted by the VCS3 synth. It didn't help that everything sounded heavily distorted. If I remember correctly the liner notes said that it was recorded on cassette from the back of a truck. I guess that modern technology can't save that. But the actual music was the main reason I didn't like it. And I think that Earthbound is the reason why the Island group got the reputation of being a bad group. Hopefully the box will correct that impression. Islands and the albums that preceded it is my favourite KC period, and I especially like Fripp's guitar playing at that time.

Is there anything in the expanded version that should make me reconsider my opinion of Earthbound?

Yes. Without a doubt. First, the original Earthbound was heavily weight d to the jams (though 21CSM is a scorcher!). The Expanded edition, especially on the DVD, of full versions of tracks originally edited for EB plus additional tracks, and the Summit show (now complete and unedited) provide a more complete and balanced look at what this band was (capable of) doing...far more than funky vamp jams. Here’s what’s on the DVD::

[auote]DVD23: Earthbound Extended, New Sequence, stereo 24/48: 21st Century Schizoid Man (Wilmington, February 11); Peoria (Peoria, March 10); The Sailor’s Tale (Jacksonville, Feb 26); Earthbound (Orlando, Feb 27); Groon (Wilmington, Feb 11); Pictures of a City (Milwaukee, March 8); Formentera Lady (Milwaukee, March 8); Cirkus (Orlando, Feb 27); Ladies of the Road (Orlando, Feb 27); The Letters (Denver, March 11); The Sailor’s Tale (Jacksonville, Feb 26 [extended version]); Groon (Peoria, March 10) [extended version]). Live at Summit Studios, Denver, March 12, new stereo and quadraphonic 24/48: Pictures of a City; Cadence and Cascade; Groon; 21st Century Schizoid Man; Summit Going On; My Hobby; The Sailor’s Tale; The Creator Has a Master Plan (including Summit and Something Else). Schizoid Men, stereo, 24/48: Schizoid Men 1; Schizoid Men 2; Schizoid Men 3; Schizoid Men 4; Schizoid Men 5; Schizoid Men 6; Schizoid Men 7; Schizoid Men 8; Schizoid Men 9; Schizoid Men 10; Schizoid Men 11. Needledrop HELKP 6 (Earthbound), stereo, 24/48: 21st Century Schizoid Man; Peoria; The Sailor’s Tale; Earthbound; Groon.(/quote]

I’ve bolded what’s been added to EB (on CD, for space reasons, only three of those tracks could be added).

So, not as msssively revelatory as the full box, but for those who cannot afford it, the CD/DVD EB provides enough to support the point that I make about this lineup:

...as a full-out, unshackled group of, at times, utterly reckless abandon. Even though the next lineup would have one or two totally spontaneous tracks during many of its shows, there were many pieces that, while open for interpretation, stuck largely to script from show-to-show. By contrast, barring just a couple of songs ("Cadence and Cascade," "Lady of the Dancing Water," "In the Court of the Crimson King"), the Islands band's arrangements were largely guides, with rules most definitely meant to be broken...whether with serious intent or by just being playfully mischievous.

I didn’t own EB back in the day, and got rid of my 30th anniversary remaster also. I found it unlistenable. But with the additio of, in particular, Pictures of a City; Formentera Lady; Cirkus; Ladies of the Road; The Letters (Denver, March 11); and an unedited The Sailor’s Tale - plus the by necessity mellotron-less Summit studios, the whole thing is more balanced and, in a snaller way, still demonstrates what I have asserted about this overlooked lineup...and makes for a much more enjoyable and balanced listen.

So yeah, I’d pick up the separate EB if I were yo. While not quite as much "a positively gobsmacking kicker" as the full box, I’m confident that it will cause you to "reconsider [your] view of ... King Crimson's second touring band."

Hope this helps.
Cheers!
John
PS:and thanks for reading, and for the complimentary word....much appreciated!

[Dan Marsh]

All of the Blu-Rays from this set will not play on my laptop's player, only my player hooked up to the TV will play them. I double-checked to see if my player was defective, but the Monkey Mind Blu-Ray plays just fine. I wonder if they used some sort of advanced features that befuddles some setups?

I have the same problem with the Childhood's end Blu-Ray.

[battema]

Not at all a shock or surprise, but a great/thorough review John

Heh...I must be in a slight minority in that I *like* how 21st Century Schizoid Man sounds on Earthbound. His vocals are mangled beyond belief and it is kind of perfect for the song.

[at least 100 dead]

Heh...I must be in a slight minority in that I *like* how 21st Century Schizoid Man sounds on Earthbound. His vocals are mangled beyond belief and it is kind of perfect for the song.

It's the definitive version of that tune (imo).

[JKL2000]

I have the same problem with the Childhood's end Blu-Ray.

Do you mean the Marillion "Misplaced Childhood" Blu-Ray?

It definitely seems to be a problem with a lot of Blu-Rays, I'm not sure what the Oppo magic is, but they should probably license it out to all other Blu-Ray player manufacturers.

[jkelman]

Not at all a shock or surprise, but a great/thorough review John

Heh...I must be in a slight minority in that I *like* how 21st Century Schizoid Man sounds on Earthbound. His vocals are mangled beyond belief and it is kind of perfect for the song.

Thanks, as always. As for 21CSM? It's a scorcher, no doubt !!