Gilgamesh/Jeff Clyne

[prestonplatform]

I originally posted this a while back in the Canterbury new year thread, but it seemed to have been lost within that thread as no body commented on it. I thought that I would share it again in case anybody missed it.

This is a rare archive live recording from the early 80's featuring two members of Gilgamesh.... bassist Jeff Clyne and guitarist Ric Morcombe.

I am not sure who plays keyboards. I suspect it may have been Geoff Castle as some of the keyboard parts bear a resemblance to the music of Paz.

Although recorded long after their involvement with Gilgamesh, there is more than a nod to Gilgamesh in many of the arrangements. The performance was broadcast on BBC Radio 3. I remember capturing it on an old cassette player.

I do not think this recording is generally available , and it certainly has not been officially released.

I hope that the less than hi-fi audio which follows is of some interest.

[Scrotum Scissor]

While I suppose you could trace some distant Gilgamesh in this, it actually reminds somewhat more of Clyne's following endeavour with Turning Point. They were both excellent bands, and this is good as well - so thx for posting. Fusion of this ilk, both cerebral and dense yet restrained and melodic - was a very uniqe feature with this circuit. Of course, the best music is often essentially self-contained.

[Proghound]

Definitely shades of Gilgamesh, very nice- thanks for sharing.

[rcarlberg]

it actually reminds somewhat more of Clyne's following endeavour with Turning Point.

That was my first thought as well. Turning Point never got the respect it deserved!

[interbellum]

That was my first thought as well. Turning Point never got the respect it deserved!

But did Turning Point ever had a guitarist?
I have the double-album Creatures Of The Night/Silent Promise (Vocalion, 2009) and there's not guitarist mentioned.

[Scrotum Scissor]

But did Turning Point ever had a guitarist?

Not on their studio recordings. AFAIR, there were live guest contributions by, among others, Holdsworth. Still, although Gilgamesh' music indeed always featured quite a lot of guitar, both bands worked very closely along the principle of separate voicings; meaning that in the writings of Turning Point, one can easily imagine a guitar substituting for one of the synths etc.

[prestonplatform]

Glad that you found the recording of interest

I am particularly fond of Turning Point, so its been good to read other peoples views . For what its worth here is my take on their albums.


Creatures of the Night' (1977) and ‘Silent Promise’ (1978)

Both albums are a showcase for the gorgeous bubbling and flowing bass lines of Clyne. His bass creates a wonderful setting for the inspired vocalese performance of Lemer to excel. His playing creates an infectious groove, but it often takes the lead in a piece to set the mood and direction. Clyne’s work is melancholic, funky, and richly expressive. His performance is blessed with a magnificent technique and tone that clearly shows the benefits all of his years of working with the best that the British Jazz Movement of the 60s could offer.

Pepi Lemer’s soaring voice is just the right foil for Clyne’s crunchy bass parts. In later life Lemer became the vocal coach for the Spice Girls. Her use of a voice as an instrument in its right is a key ingredient of the band’s sound and in this respect she fulfils a similar but much more raucous role to Norma Winstone in her work in Azimuth.

The other band members have important roles play and all members are equally important to the collective feel of the music. Brian Miller’s keyboard work is particularly outstanding, but the wonderful contribution of Dave Tidball on saxophone gives much of the music its bite. His solo on the superb Rain Dance found on ‘Creatures of the Night’ is sublime.

The highpoint in ‘Creatures of the Night’ is ‘My Lady C ‘ and the standout track on ‘Silent Promise’ is undoubtedly ‘Beginning Again', but these are merely the pinnacles of two loftily composed and performed albums.

Just wondering if anybody likes the work of Zeptelar. The wordless vocals remind me of Pepi Lemer

[rcarlberg]

Pepi Lemer is of course the ex-wife of keyboardist Pete Lemer, of Gilgamesh and a few others you may have heard of:

Pete Lemer Quintet, Spontaneous Music Ensemble, Annette Peacock, Harry Beckett, Gilgamesh, Baker Gurvitz Army, Seventh Wave, Harry Beckett's Joy Unlimited, Pierre Moerlen's Gong, Mike Oldfield Group, In Cahoots, Miller/Baker/Lemer. He currently works with In Cahoots, Peter Lemer Trio/Quartet, Barbara Thompson's Paraphernalia, and the Peter Lemer-Billy Thompson Quartet and Duo.

[interbellum]

Not on their studio recordings. AFAIR, there were live guest contributions by, among others, Holdsworth. Still, although Gilgamesh' music indeed always featured quite a lot of guitar, both bands worked very closely along the principle of separate voicings; meaning that in the writings of Turning Point, one can easily imagine a guitar substituting for one of the synths etc.

Yeah, I have a recording from a show with Holdsworth, Gary Husband and Neil Ardley from 1981.

[FrippWire]

Gotta say God Bless PE. As long as I've been an over the top music freak/fan/collector I still learn new things. Because of this thread I investigated Turning Point and as a result ordered the 2-fer CD.

[rcarlberg]

Please check back when you receive it, and report on the sound quality. Camples online sound worse than my LP dub

[FrippWire]

Please check back when you receive it, and report on the sound quality. Camples online sound worse than my LP dub

Oh, no!

[arturs]

I am an admirer of Clyne's work on the Nucleus and Gilgamesh debuts. But I didn't know that he had passed away (2009)! Damn. Definitely an underrated genius.

I enjoyed the clip above. I will check YT for any Turning Point they might have.

[happytheman]

Oh, no!

Just did a search on Amazon.. only one review for the 2fer you refer to.. no complaints of sound.

[prestonplatform]

The sound quality is fine on my 2 album combined CD release although my vinyl copies have a much warmer sound

[rcarlberg]

I spent several weeks cleaning up my vinyl dubs, a few years before the CDs were finally issued. I was never very happy with the sound. Perhaps it's the masters that sound dull and aliased, because on iTunes they sound just as bad.

[arturs]

Turning point is a really interesting band, as I have just discovered. The original RTF with Flora is obviously an influence but they have something original going on as well. Looks like the 2fer only came out this year. I'll have to grab a copy before it goes OOP. Sound gremlins be damned...

[prestonplatform]

There appear to be two versions of the 2fer...not sure if they are the same in terms of sound quality. I have the vocalion one which was remastered by Michael J Dutton

Vocalion ‎– CDSML 8448
Secret Records Limited ‎– SECDD154

Interesting point about RTF with Flora.............other bands with wordless vocals that spring to mind Zeptelar and Saena , but both were created long after the Demise of Turning Point.
For the whole vocalese thing and British Jazz you need to look no further than the 70s with the release of Norma Winstone's Edge of Time and the Michael Garrick releases Home stretch Blues and Troppo in which Winstone excels and of course Winstone's later work with Azimuth is also wonderful. Pepi Lemer is still doing this style ( on one track at least)...on her Back to Front album came out last year featuring ex Turning Point members Brian Miller(on one track) and Paul Robinson. Peter Lemer provides most of the keyboards

[calyx]

For the whole vocalese thing and British Jazz you need to look no further than the 70s with the release of Norma Winstone's Edge of Time and the Michael Garrick releases Home stretch Blues and Troppo in which Winstone excels and of course Winstone's later work with Azimuth is also wonderful.

This being said, Jeff Clyne said that a major influence in forming Turning Point was Magma, whom Isotope supported on one of their early visits to the UK. Both he and Brian Miller, his co-leader in TP, were members of Isotope at the time.

[prestonplatform]

Thanks for that Calyx was not aware of that. Do you have any idea of the line up and recording date of the Clyne / Morcombe band BBC session ? Would like to know who the rest of the band might have been

[FrippWire]

Please check back when you receive it, and report on the sound quality. Camples online sound worse than my LP dub

The copy I purchased is on Secret Records and it sounds fine. No issues with it. I played it multiple times in the car on a Jeep's factory installed system; I have not yet played it on the nice system in the house for comparison.

[rcarlberg]

The first track doesn't sound No Noised? And every quiet passage afterward? It sounded to me, from the lo-fi online samples, that this was probably an LP dub, with lots of ham-fisted noise reduction. Check on headphones for groove rumble, which cannot be removed.

[Scrotum Scissor]

Jeff Clyne said that a major influence in forming Turning Point was Magma

Which is detectable. Some of Turning Point's stuff always reminded me of mid-period Zao.