Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 89

Thread: Zappa - Läther

  1. #1
    Member rottersclub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Out there, somewhere
    Posts
    170

    Zappa - Läther

    I'm revisiting this and I just don't get it. The track list makes no sense to me. I've owned the individual LPs for many years and at least there is some coherence to each one of the LPs (not entirely, but moreso than Läther).

    What's the deal on this? What was he actually trying to accomplish with this track list? Help, it's killing me ...

  2. #2
    Good point. It does seem to be all over the place doesn't it? It's definitley a hodge podge of various different band line-ups and styles throughout the years, so it lacks a sense of cehesion. It certainly doesn't feel like a band setting out to produce an album in the traditional sense. Maybe he just had all these bits and pieces laying around and needed to get them released. Some great material to be sure though.
    "Young man says you are what you eat, eat well."
    http://www.blissbomb.net/

  3. #3
    The eons are closing
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    NY/NJ
    Posts
    3,640
    IMO: the vinyls "break" at the right moments (or at least, the intended moments) while the CDs do not (due to more 'space').
    I 'labeled' the tracks on my PC per the order listed in the booklet; than way RDNUZL ends a 'side' as it always should IMO.
    Death inspires me like a dog inspires a rabbit

  4. #4
    Somehow, although the very notion of "Läther" appears to be an after-the-fact fabrication by Zappa (we've had long discussions about this here already), whose initial plan appears to have been separate thematic releases of this material (beginning with "In New York", which he did release with his approved artwork, and continuing with "Orchestral Favourites", "Studio Tan" and "Sleep Dirt", which were released as musically intended by Zappa although without approved artwork as Zappa had fallen out with his label by then), "Läther" is actually very zappaesque in its constantly-jumping-from-one-style-to-another way. It's an interesting alternative to listening to the individual albums it was compiled from.

  5. #5
    Member rottersclub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Out there, somewhere
    Posts
    170
    That's what I was wondering about - whether Zappa really intended the music to be released in this way when he was recording it, or if it was revisionism on his part. I think it's safe to say that Zappa certainly had no problem "changing history" on other records - e.g., rerecording drum tracks, endless remixes of his music, etc.

    Sorry if this has been discussed at length in the past. I guess I missed it the first time around.

  6. #6
    Member TheH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,230
    Very simple matter here. There was what the artist wanted, which definetly wasn't what his label wanted (expensiv box set releases of new stuff).

    So it was released seperatly first, and reunited later. Just a business matter.

  7. #7
    Member rottersclub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Out there, somewhere
    Posts
    170
    Quote Originally Posted by TheH View Post
    Very simple matter here. There was what the artist wanted, which definetly wasn't what his label wanted (expensiv box set releases of new stuff).

    So it was released seperatly first, and reunited later. Just a business matter.
    I understand that, but I'm asking this from a strictly artistic perspective. The order of the songs is illogical!

  8. #8
    Member TheH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,230
    Quote Originally Posted by rottersclub View Post
    I understand that, but I'm asking this from a strictly artistic perspective. The order of the songs is illogical!
    Do you remember Frank as a logical person?

  9. #9
    Well, I guess if you want an artistic explanation, it's the "Conceptual Continuity," innit? Aside from the Live in NY tracks (and a few others here and there), this is a collection of tracks, too, that don't really fit into anything else Zappa was doing at the time. They're all alike in their dissimilarity. Think about Bongo Fury (live, I know), Zoot Alures and finally Sheik Yerbouti--all more or less straight ahead (for FZ, anyway) rock albums. Where does "Greggary Peccary" fit in with all that? Well, it don't. FZ made other such radical moves and shifts in the past, like the shift to the pretty straight ahead rock of the Flo and Eddie Mothers, so that might not be the best answer or explanation. It is how I see it, though.
    I want to dynamite your mind with love tonight.

  10. #10
    Parrots Ripped My Flesh Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    42°09′30″N 71°08′43″W
    Posts
    6,262
    Nobody ever seems to complain that Exposure jumps all over the place stylistically.

  11. #11
    Parrots Ripped My Flesh Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    42°09′30″N 71°08′43″W
    Posts
    6,262
    Quote Originally Posted by calyx View Post
    Somehow, although the very notion of "Läther" appears to be an after-the-fact fabrication by Zappa (we've had long discussions about this here already), whose initial plan appears to have been separate thematic releases of this material (beginning with "In New York", which he did release with his approved artwork, and continuing with "Orchestral Favourites", "Studio Tan" and "Sleep Dirt", which were released as musically intended by Zappa although without approved artwork as Zappa had fallen out with his label by then), "Läther" is actually very zappaesque in its constantly-jumping-from-one-style-to-another way. It's an interesting alternative to listening to the individual albums it was compiled from.
    The Biffy Hypothesis.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by TheH View Post
    Do you remember Frank as a logical person?
    Also that.
    I want to dynamite your mind with love tonight.

  13. #13
    May I just jump in here and say that I really, really, really love “Greggery Peccary,” which everyone else seems to hate?

    -------------
    MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

    "That's my purse! I don't know you!" --Bobby Hill

    N.P.:“La musique d’Erich Zann”-Univers Zéro/Ceux du dehors

  14. #14
    Hmmm. It'll be interesting to see if people 'round here really hate GP. I seem to remember, the last time we discussed it, that most folk are for it I certainly am, but I only listen to it once or twice a year.
    I want to dynamite your mind with love tonight.

  15. #15
    Parrots Ripped My Flesh Dave (in MA)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    42°09′30″N 71°08′43″W
    Posts
    6,262
    I no longer need to listen to the cartoon voice version of GP now that I have Wazoo.

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Austin Texas
    Posts
    725
    I love this album, and the fact that it's all over the place is a plus for me. Since I can't possibly listen to the whole thing at one sitting, I just pick a few different tracks each time. It works well as a "compilation" album, as opposed to a "best of" album. I'll admit that I never owned any of the albums that make up this release, so I wasn't used to a certain track order.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by polmico View Post
    Hmmm. It'll be interesting to see if people 'round here really hate GP. I seem to remember, the last time we discussed it, that most folk are for it I certainly am, but I only listen to it once or twice a year.
    Yeah, my recollection of a thread last year was that GP was about the most popular FZ song here at PE. I love it myself. As for Lather (how the heck do you make the umlauts??) jumping around, hasn't that been a FZ signature throughout his career? Most of his albums sound like they were cut with a razor lade, thrown in the air and reassembled at random...

  18. #18
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    southern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    7,122
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave (in MA) View Post
    Nobody ever seems to complain that Exposure jumps all over the place stylistically.
    Well, that's at the very least oneLP as opposed to four. While Läther is most certainly all over the place, so are many Zappa releases. They just weren't as expansive.


    Quote Originally Posted by Progbear View Post
    May I just jump in here and say that I really, really, really love “Greggery Peccary,” which everyone else seems to hate?
    Don't know who hates it, certainly not me. For 'silly/epic' Zappa I would take "Greggery Peccary" over stuff like "Billy The Mountain" any day of the week.
    Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.

    *** Join me in the Garden of Delights for 3 hours of tune-spinning... every Saturday at 5pm EST on Deep Nuggets radio! www.deepnuggets.com ***

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by TheH View Post
    Very simple matter here. There was what the artist wanted, which definetly wasn't what his label wanted (expensiv box set releases of new stuff).

    So it was released seperatly first, and reunited later. Just a business matter.
    Evidently it's not THAT simple, since you got it the wrong way round. The separate releases were Zappa's original intention. Then, shortly after delivering the masters and artwork for "Live In New York", he fell out with Warner Bros, decided to shop a repackaged version of the project (the all-encompassing "Läther") to other labels. But Warner went ahead and released "Live In New York" anyway, and Zappa had to give up the "Läther" project as about 1/3rd of it was now on the market. There is irrefutable chronological evidence for all of the above - Michael P. Dawson in particular investigated this, which refutes the official FZ bullshit version of the story.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by soundsweird View Post
    I love this album, and the fact that it's all over the place is a plus for me. Since I can't possibly listen to the whole thing at one sitting, I just pick a few different tracks each time. It works well as a "compilation" album, as opposed to a "best of" album. I'll admit that I never owned any of the albums that make up this release, so I wasn't used to a certain track order.
    I owned Studio Tan on vinyl, but none of the others. I do need to hear the full version of Sleep Dirt one of these days, now that it’s available in its original version, but the tracks included on Läther definitely show that it’s a good but not great album (certainly not Hot Rats III as it was originally billed), though “Re-gyptian Strut” is one of my favourite Zappa pieces.

    Quote Originally Posted by trurl View Post
    As for Lather (how the heck do you make the umlauts??)
    ALT+0228 = ä

    “Character Map” will usually show you the keystrokes if you hover your mouse over a particular character.

    Quote Originally Posted by Progatron View Post
    Don't know who hates it, certainly not me. For 'silly/epic' Zappa I would take "Greggery Peccary" over stuff like "Billy The Mountain" any day of the week.
    I agree, more instrumental development in GP (which is sort of a sequel to BTM). For what it’s worth, BTM was hands down the highlight of the Flo & Eddie era.
    -------------
    MIKE (a.k.a. "Progbear")

    "It is not an obscenity to be free. It is a divine right." --Annette Peacock

    N.P.:“Scar”-Simple Minds/Reel to Real Cacophony

  21. #21
    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    southern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    7,122
    Quote Originally Posted by Progbear View Post
    I owned Studio Tan on vinyl, but none of the others. I do need to hear the full version of Sleep Dirt one of these days, now that it’s available in its original version, but the tracks included on Läther definitely show that it’s a good but not great album (certainly not Hot Rats III as it was originally billed), though “Re-gyptian Strut” is one of my favourite Zappa pieces.


    I agree, more instrumental development in GP (which is sort of a sequel to BTM). For what it’s worth, BTM was hands down the highlight of the Flo & Eddie era.
    Zappa In New York is one of my absolute favourite FZ releases, up there with the likes of Roxy And Elsewhere. As for the Flo & Eddie period, my friends and I were always big fans when we were late teens/early twentysomethings (we wore out my copy of Fillmore East), but I eventually got tired of that era. Especially "Billy The Mountain".

    I need to put some of this shit on.
    Interviewer of reprobate ne'er-do-well musicians of the long-haired rock n' roll persuasion at: www.velvetthunder.co.uk and former scribe at Classic Rock Society. Only vaguely aware of anything other than music.

    *** Join me in the Garden of Delights for 3 hours of tune-spinning... every Saturday at 5pm EST on Deep Nuggets radio! www.deepnuggets.com ***

  22. #22
    Think of Lather is being another instance of the pastiche style that Zappa showed on We're Only In It For the Money and Uncle Meat. I don't get any of those and tend to just pick and choose the songs I want to hear.

    Regarding Greggary Peccary vs Billy the Mountain, musically there's no comparison, GP is awesome. Where I dislike GP is that it is nearly all narrated without vocals. I like a lot of the singing in Billy the Mountain especially passages like Studabaker Hawk (sp?). I wish Zappa would have just given us an instrumental version of GP and written the story as a separate, standalone entity.

  23. #23
    Recently Resurrected zombywoof's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Sunset Blvd.
    Posts
    385
    Quote Originally Posted by flowerking View Post
    I wish Zappa would have just given us an instrumental version of GP and written the story as a separate, standalone entity.
    Check out the "Wazoo" live album, recorded in 1972, which has an extended Peccary without vocals. It's quite good. I never cared much for Billy the Mountain. Peccary rips your head off!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Progbear View Post
    May I just jump in here and say that I really, really, really love “Greggery Peccary,” which everyone else seems to hate?
    Oh, I most definitely LOVE Greggery Peccary. Vdooon! Vdooon!!

  24. #24
    Member No Pride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Chicago, IL, USA
    Posts
    137
    Quote Originally Posted by zombywoof View Post
    Check out the "Wazoo" live album, recorded in 1972, which has an extended Peccary without vocals. It's quite good. I never cared much for Billy the Mountain. Peccary rips your head off!!



    Oh, I most definitely LOVE Greggery Peccary. Vdooon! Vdooon!!
    Me too!

    Did Quentin, the greatest living philostopher known to man ever help Gregarry figure out who is making those new brown clouds?

    I dig Lather in general, not all of it mind you, but there's a lot of music on it, some of it pretty great!

  25. #25
    Of course I paid 30 bucks for an import copy of Lather to hear the Sleep Dirt instrumentals only to have it superseded by the re-issue. So it's basically useless with the exception of FZ's Whole Lotta Love solo, and his bogus temporary disc jockey stint.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •