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Thread: Metallica- ...And Justice For All (30th Anniversary)

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    Metallica- ...And Justice For All (30th Anniversary)

    Although i like Metallica, i never bought any of their albums.
    but i'd be open to getting this one that celebrates it's 30th Anniversary this week.
    the first 3 album have been remastered and released in 30 year deluxe editions.
    but there's nothing about AJFA getting the remaster deluxe treatment.
    anyone know if there are plans? the first 4 songs on this record are Metallica classics.
    thanks in advance for any into.

    metallica-and-justice-for-all-cover-album-wallpaper.jpg

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    Never mind their website has it coming out November 2nd.

    https://www.metallica.com/store/and-...=store#start=1

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    Hopefully, they've done a remix of the album. I don't think I'm aware of anyone, including the band members themselves, who think they didn't screw up some aspect of the mix on that record.

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    This is the only Metallica album I'd buy again if they fixed it. The previous 3 albums sound fine to me without being remastered. But AJFA, as much as I dig it, needs to be fixed, specifically the low end needs beefing up. I'd prefer Jason to re-record his bass parts but I doubt that'd happen. It's a metal masterpiece, so I tolerate the bad production, but it needs fixing across the board. I wouldn't even mind if they re-recorded the album from scratch.

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    Insect Overlord Progatron's Avatar
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    It is not being 'fixed', sadly, as it is just a remaster. This needs a serious remix if we are ever to hear the bass parts. So my guess is that we should just expect a louder version of these songs played with only guitars and drums.

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    Brilliant music and their worst recording ever. Yeah, a serious remix is needed. Some in their fan base like this recording with those dry guitars, no bass, and tin drums but it's nails on the chalkboard for me. I go to the live recordings when I need a fix of this album.
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    I don't mind dry production. What makes the sound of this album bad is the drums and barely audible bass. They might as well leave it as is. I think if they fatten up the bottom end artificially it'll just be worse. At any rate, I won't be buying it. I'll keep what I have. I can make it sound a little beefier with Audacity software.

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    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    I’ve remixed a handful of AJFA tracks with the stems available. I doubled the bass track and added some more low end. Sounds 1000x better than the original version.

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    My favorite album by them, but as others mention the production leaves a lot to be desired.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    This is the only Metallica album I'd buy again if they fixed it. The previous 3 albums sound fine to me without being remastered. But AJFA, as much as I dig it, needs to be fixed, specifically the low end needs beefing up. I'd prefer Jason to re-record his bass parts but I doubt that'd happen. It's a metal masterpiece, so I tolerate the bad production, but it needs fixing across the board. I wouldn't even mind if they re-recorded the album from scratch.
    Yeah, James and Lars intentionally mixed Jason out of the album. Dicks.

    As for re-recording, that could prove to be ugly.
    Have you heard Flotsam and Jetsam's re-recorded No Place For Disgrace album? Terrible. I think they were too far removed from what drove them to make that album originally. I think the same thing would apply to the guys in Metallica, but to an even greater degree. Sure, they play some of the stuff live still, but I just don't think they can capture that same kind of energy anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by frinspar View Post
    Yeah, James and Lars intentionally mixed Jason out of the album. Dicks. .
    Yeah I always felt that this was their hazing against Jason and at the same time honoring Cliff. Still, they need to fix the goddamned album. Fix it for crying out loud.

    I've never heard Flotsam And Jetsom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    Yeah I always felt that this was their hazing against Jason and at the same time honoring Cliff. Still, they need to fix the goddamned album. Fix it for crying out loud.

    I've never heard Flotsam And Jetsam.
    That was the band Jason Newsted was in when Metallica recruited him. They'd done one full album before with him, and a bunch of EPs and demos. He's credited on a few songs that were on NPFD, but left before recording started.
    They're still putting out albums and killing it.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by frinspar View Post
    Yeah, James and Lars intentionally mixed Jason out of the album. Dicks.

    As for re-recording, that could prove to be ugly.
    Have you heard Flotsam and Jetsam's re-recorded No Place For Disgrace album? Terrible. I think they were too far removed from what drove them to make that album originally. I think the same thing would apply to the guys in Metallica, but to an even greater degree. Sure, they play some of the stuff live still, but I just don't think they can capture that same kind of energy anymore.
    Newstead was on That Metal Show a few years ago and said it was his fault in the way he recorded his bass parts. I forget exactly what he said and had done but it harkened back to his F&J days and the way he recorded his bass with that band.

    Don't know if that episode is out there on some defunct VH1 Classic site. He seemed to be honest that it was his fault and not anything they did but who knows.

    It would be a blast to actually hear this album. I do think it's the best thing they ever did.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLoony View Post
    Newstead was on That Metal Show a few years ago and said it was his fault in the way he recorded his bass parts. I forget exactly what he said and had done but it harkened back to his F&J days and the way he recorded his bass with that band.

    Don't know if that episode is out there on some defunct VH1 Classic site. He seemed to be honest that it was his fault and not anything they did but who knows.

    It would be a blast to actually hear this album. I do think it's the best thing they ever did.
    I think it was on Ultimate Rock that I read about this, pretty recently. Newsted recorded separately from the rest of the band, which certainly didn't help build any chemistry in the studio. And James felt that Jason stepped on his rhythms too much by playing along with him to closely, so they mixed him out, the reason being that it would be too muddy or some silly shit. Lars just didn't want to hear it at all and kept turning him down.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by frinspar View Post
    I think it was on Ultimate Rock that I read about this, pretty recently. Newsted recorded separately from the rest of the band, which certainly didn't help build any chemistry in the studio. And James felt that Jason stepped on his rhythms too much by playing along with him to closely, so they mixed him out, the reason being that it would be too muddy or some silly shit. Lars just didn't want to hear it at all and kept turning him down.
    From what you are saying is we both are right. He messed it up and then they, still in their hazing phase, decided to screw it up even more.

    Seems to make total sense.
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    I'd heard of F&J and that Jason was in that band but haven't heard their music. I guess Youtube is my friend. What album(s) does Jason play in?

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    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    I'd heard of F&J and that Jason was in that band but haven't heard their music. I guess Youtube is my friend. What album(s) does Jason play in?
    Google can be a cool friend, also

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLoony View Post
    From what you are saying is we both are right. He messed it up and then they, still in their hazing phase, decided to screw it up even more.

    Seems to make total sense.
    Oh, I wasn't arguing. It was a mixture of things. But, still, regardless of what Jason did, he was intentionally sabotaged by a couple of spoiled babies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vic2012 View Post
    I'd heard of F&J and that Jason was in that band but haven't heard their music. I guess Youtube is my friend. What album(s) does Jason play in?
    Doomsday for the Deceiver.
    But don't discount their catalog. Great, hard-working band.
    They have a new album coming out in a month or two.

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    Wikipedia is a better friend. Ok, Jason left after the first album, Doomsday For The Deceiver. I'll check it out on YT.

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    Heard the whole album. Relentless speed thrash. It's good but kind of generic. Nothing unique.

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    Man of repute progmatist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheLoony View Post
    Newstead was on That Metal Show a few years ago and said it was his fault in the way he recorded his bass parts. I forget exactly what he said and had done but it harkened back to his F&J days and the way he recorded his bass with that band.
    He said it was because he was playing a low tuned guitar rather than actually playing bass. But then, Lars said in a fairly recent interview that if Cliff was still alive, you'd be able to hear the effing bass on the Justice album.
    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"--Dalai Lama

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by frinspar View Post
    I think it was on Ultimate Rock that I read about this, pretty recently. Newsted recorded separately from the rest of the band, which certainly didn't help build any chemistry in the studio. .
    That's the way Metallica recorded all of their stuff up to that point. James and Kirk were interviewed in Guitar Player at the time, and James explained their writing/recording process. He and Lars would put the song arrangements together from tapes made during rehearsals and soundchecks. Then they'd write a click track. Then they'd put down each instrument by itself. And I suppose it's well known now that on at least those first four albums, Kirk only played the guitar solos. James played all the rhythm guitar, harmony guitar and acoustic stuff.

    They recorded all of the first albums that way, apparently, or at least that's the way James made it sound. As far as I understand it, either The Black Album or Load was the first time all four of them played together in the studio.

    I think I've mentioned this before, but when Anthrax put out their Persistence Of Tiem album, soon after And Justice For All, Danny Spitz and Scott Ian were interviewed in Guitar Player. The topic of mixing their album came up, and it wasm entioned they hired, under whatever circumstances, the same mix engineers who worked on ...And Justice For All, a pair named Steve Thompson and Michael Barbeiro. The first thing Thompson and Barbeiro told the Anthrax guys was "Let's make this album sound like what ...And Justice For All could have sounded like". Apparently, they had no input the mix on the Metallica record, with everything being dictated by James and Lars.
    Yeah I always felt that this was their hazing against Jason and at the same time honoring Cliff. Still, they need to fix the goddamned album. Fix it for crying out loud.
    Yeah, they treated Jason pretty badly, at least those first couple years he was in the band. I remember him talking about the stuff they did to him on that first tour he did. I could see the business of them going sight seeing, and deliberately excluding him, given the circumstances of how he came into the band.

    But he talked of them doing stuff like crashing into his hotel room and smashing everything in sight, and doing stuff like running up huge bar tabs and then charging it to his room. That and deliberately frelling up the mix on the record is just being assholes.

    Also, I remember seeing an interview with him years later where he talked of how when he formed a side band, James and Lars took exception to him working on something else while Metallica were on hiatus. I think James even admitted it.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by progmatist View Post
    He said it was because he was playing a low tuned guitar rather than actually playing bass.
    He said in Guitar Player at the time that he played a Steinberger bass, which I guess he wasn't happy with. Not long after they made the album, he got a Wal bass, apparently one of the last ones Ian Waller himself made before he passed away, and he said he wished he had it before they recorded the album.
    But then, Lars said in a fairly recent interview that if Cliff was still alive, you'd be able to hear the effing bass on the Justice album.
    Dunno about Lars, but that's exactly what Kirk said about the album when he was asked to rank the Metallica albums on That Metal Show.

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    Member dropforge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    I think I've mentioned this before, but when Anthrax put out their Persistence Of Tiem album, soon after And Justice For All, Danny Spitz and Scott Ian were interviewed in Guitar Player. The topic of mixing their album came up, and it wasm entioned they hired, under whatever circumstances, the same mix engineers who worked on ...And Justice For All, a pair named Steve Thompson and Michael Barbeiro. The first thing Thompson and Barbeiro told the Anthrax guys was "Let's make this album sound like what ...And Justice For All could have sounded like". Apparently, they had no input the mix on the Metallica record, with everything being dictated by James and Lars.
    The Persistence of Time remains my favorite Anthrax album. It's far and away a better record than AJFA: better songs, better vocals, better guitar playing, better drumming (duh, haha), and yeah, a better MIX.

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    Man of repute progmatist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Dunno about Lars, but that's exactly what Kirk said about the album when he was asked to rank the Metallica albums on That Metal Show.
    That's right...I couldn't remember which of the 2 said it.
    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"--Dalai Lama

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