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Thread: Marilyn Manson: Columbine massacre 'destroyed' my career

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLoony View Post
    Don't forget Rush - Rebels Under Satan's Hand. Anyway....

    Back in High School I found, in the band room, a pamphlet from the Back In Control Training Program. I still have it and it's still as funny today as it was back then. How Punk and Heavy Metal were ruining kids and all that nonsense. The chick who headed the place back then was interviewed in The Decline of Western Civilization Pt. 2: The Metal Years doc and you can see in that she's clearly bonkers.
    Oh yeah, I remember her explanation of what the "devil horns" means, the whole "denial of the holy trinity" and "three 6's" business. I remember thinking, "Lady, you're giving these guys way too much credit, if you think any of them was thinking of all of that when developing that hand gesture". And as Dio told us (and pretty much any person of Italian descent can confirm), it's actually an old gesture used to protect against "the evil eye" (so much for Gene Simmons supposedly inventing it).

  2. #52
    ^^ Don't forget the pentagram on 2112. That's pretty much where it all began.
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    That was a common usage, especially in Britain. The Sweet had a song around that theme on the American version of Desolation Boulevard.
    I forgot about that, but you're right. Joan Jett did a cover of it relatively recently (like int he last 10 years or so). She didn't even change the gender pronouns, so I guess that was sort of her coming out (though she had been rumored to be at least bi for many years, and Cherie Currie once claimed that the two of them slept together during the Runaways days).


    Slight correction: The Styx was between the land of the living and the underworld of the dead. The Greeks didn't have a concept of a cosmic torture chamber. I don't think that came along until Christianity.
    Yeah, I spoke imprecisely there, I know. But that's how the evangelicals would phrase it, as far as they're concerned, "underworld" and "Hell" are the same thing.

    Of course, since Rush has been mentioned (though I don't remember ever hearing the backronym for them), there's of course all the talk about the 2112 cover, which isn't even a real pentragram. Of course, though who actually know their dren about things like pentragrams would tell you that even if it was an actual pentagram, one of the points is pointing upward, thus it does not represent "black magic" or evil or whatever (not that the evangelicals make such distinctions). Of course, it's a moot point since the circle and star on the cover of 2112 is supposed to represent a oppressive social/political/religious/whatever regime, hence it would be appropriate that image might be associated in some people's minds with "evil" or whatever.

    Another thign I remember in one of those books was the point that on the cover of the Alan Parsons Project album Eve, the two women have sores on their faces, which I think suggested that they had herpes, thus they're "harlots" or whatever, and therefore the band's music must be evil. I believe one of their albums had a tarot card on the cover (of course, Zeppelin committed a similar "crime" by depicting not one, but two tarot cards on the cover of the fourth album).

    And then there's the fourth Hall & Oates album, which had them made up on the cover to look like women, which the evangelicals apparently also found offensive.
    Last edited by GuitarGeek; 09-27-2017 at 09:04 PM.

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    ^^ Don't forget the pentagram on 2112. That's pretty much where it all began.
    I didn't. I just didn't mention it in that post.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by progmatist View Post
    I also remember Christian zealots coining the acronym "Knights In Satan's Service" from the name KISS.
    "Keep It Simple, Stupid" would be more likely.

  6. #56
    Member Jerjo's Avatar
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    I remember reading about one of these record-burning preachers in the late 70s/early 80s. His followers were throwing records on the pile and someone added a stack of Zeppelin LPs to the pyre. The reporter questioned that, pointing out that there was no profanity in the lyrics and the preacher snapped. "It's in the music. That music all about sex." Well, he did get that right.
    I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down.'- Bob Newhart

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by moecurlythanu View Post
    That was a common usage, especially in Britain. The Sweet had a song around that theme on the American version of Desolation Boulevard.
    Yes. Also in the David Bowie documentary Cracked Actor, covering his 'Philly Dogs' 1974 US tour, one of the fans says he's 'AC/DC' in a nudge-nudge wink-wink way.

  8. #58
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    I am not a hardcore MM fan, but I seem to find enough good tracks within his albums to justify the purchase. Hard metal with industrial and pop sprinkles -- that's how I'd label his output. I have never taken to MM's cover songs. His 2003 album, The Golden Age of Grotesque, is my go-to when I want to hear a complete album. My favorite member is Twiggy Ramirez.






  9. #59
    Man of repute progmatist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    And as Dio told us (and pretty much any person of Italian descent can confirm), it's actually an old gesture used to protect against "the evil eye" (so much for Gene Simmons supposedly inventing it).
    And interestingly, Ronnie sang on 2 songs on Kerry Livgren's Christian solo album Seeds of Change, while still a member of Black Sabbath.
    "Well my son, life is like a beanstalk, isn't it?"--Dalai Lama

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by progmatist View Post
    And interestingly, Ronnie sang on 2 songs on Kerry Livgren's Christian solo album Seeds of Change, while still a member of Black Sabbath.
    Yeah, I remember an article in one of the metal magazines, either Hit Parader or Circus about it. It was one of those half a page "gossip" pieces, that tried to make this big thing out of the fact that a "evil" metal singer had sung on a "Christian" album. This was actually a couple (or maybe more than a couple) years after the fact, because Ronnie says "Back when I was still in Sabbath, and Kerry was still in Kansas". Anyway, Ronnie said he thought they were good songs, he didn't really care what Kerry's lyrics were about, he just enjoyed singing them.

    Oh, and since it was never really addressed, no, by the time of the Priest lawsuit, "backwards masking" wasn't really "a thing". But the kid who survived the initial attempt said it was the band's music that made them want to kill themselves (you sure it was Stained Class you were listening to, and not Turbo?!), so the parents were intent on bringing the band to court. Apparently, they initially intended to do the same thing the people who tried suing Ozzy had done, suing over the song lyrics. But their ambulance chaser told that would never work, and they should try a different angle, which is wehre the alleged backwards messages came into it.

    And as a side note, I recall reading where someone pointed out the anachronism in Good Morning Vietnam, where Robin Williams is joking about playing a Freddie And The Dreamers record backwards, revealing the message, "Freddie is the devil!", since backwards masking was more a late 70's/early 80's thing.
    I remember reading about one of these record-burning preachers in the late 70s/early 80s. His followers were throwing records on the pile and someone added a stack of Zeppelin LPs to the pyre. The reporter questioned that, pointing out that there was no profanity in the lyrics and the preacher snapped. "It's in the music. That music all about sex." Well, he did get that right.
    I saw one program where they showed one such record burning, and the preacher is throwing records on the bonfire, identifying each one. One was Hi-Infidelity by REO Speedwagon, which he seemed to object to just on the basis of the album title..."We don't mind our kids knowing about hi fidelity, but not infidelity" (isn't there a lot of infidelity in the Bible?). Then he tossed a copy of Zenyatta Mondata by The Police on the pile. I didn't understand what his beef with The Police was at the time, it would be years before I found what "that book by Nabakov" was, which I suspect had something to do with this guy's specific complaint.

    Honestly, it all sounds like something out of a Roger Corman movie (I mean literally, didn't you guys see Rock N Roll High School?!).

    And coming back to Iron Maiden, there was a story Martin Birch, who produced most of their classic albums, told about how his car got hit by someone coming out of a blind alley or something like that. Apparently, the other driver was a religious man, got out of the car and started praying for anyone who might have been injured (fortunately, nobody was). Anyway, supposedly, the repair bill came out to exactly $666 (or 666 quid, or whatever) and the guy refused to pay that figure. He offered to pay 667 or whatever, but would not pay 666 of whichever currency was involved.

    And that story reminds me of the building in downtown Cleveland, that used to have the address of 666 Euclid Avenue. I say used to, because at some point, in the late 80's or early 90's, a new tenant moved into the building, and insisted the number be changed. So it became 668 Euclid Avenue. Apparently, the guy was very religious. But if that were the case, why move into that particular storefront?

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    And as a side note, I recall reading where someone pointed out the anachronism in Good Morning Vietnam, where Robin Williams is joking about playing a Freddie And The Dreamers record backwards, revealing the message, "Freddie is the devil!", since backwards masking was more a late 70's/early 80's thing.
    Well, that might have been in comic reference to The Beatles White Album "backwards messages." That would have been 68-69. They were not the only ones doing it before 1970.
    "The White Zone is for loading and unloading only. If you got to load or unload go to the White Zone!"

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by ronmac View Post
    Well, that might have been in comic reference to The Beatles White Album "backwards messages." That would have been 68-69. They were not the only ones doing it before 1970.
    WEll, yeah, possibly. I mean people were talking about the backwards message on Revolution #9 circa 1969. But was anyone talking about their being "evil" messages hidden on records circa 67-68 (which is when the movie was set)? But it's just a movie, and as we eventually found out, very little of what's depicted in Good Morning Vietnam actually happened, so, as Rick Springfield once said, "The point is probably moot".

  13. #63
    ALL ACCESS Gruno's Avatar
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    Manson was rushed to a New York hospital. Condition unknown.

    Marilyn Manson's concert in NYC just came to a scary abrupt halt when 2 giant gun props came crashing down on him ... sending the rocker to the hospital.

    Manson was reportedly about an hour into his show at the Manhattan Center Hammerstein Ballroom -- performing his hit "Sweet Dreams (Are Made of This)" -- when the stage prop fell on top of him

  14. #64
    Member dropforge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuitarGeek View Post
    Yeah, I remember an article in one of the metal magazines, either Hit Parader or Circus about it. It was one of those half a page "gossip" pieces, that tried to make this big thing out of the fact that a "evil" metal singer had sung on a "Christian" album. This was actually a couple (or maybe more than a couple) years after the fact, because Ronnie says "Back when I was still in Sabbath, and Kerry was still in Kansas". Anyway, Ronnie said he thought they were good songs, he didn't really care what Kerry's lyrics were about, he just enjoyed singing them.
    If you own a copy of Kerry's OOP 2CD Decade (which contains Seeds of Change and other material), Kerry explains in a fair amount of detail in the liner notes his time with Ronnie at the studio, recording "Mask of the Great Deceiver" and "To Live for the King." He wanted a powerful vocalist for those songs, and remembered Ronnie from Elf. Kerry got down his Elf LP (yes, he owned it), confirmed Ronnie was the man for the job and contacted his management. In a nutshell, Ronnie was a class act and through their talks during the sessions, Kerry wrote (verbatim) "Ronnie was no satanist." And yes, Ronnie enjoyed singing them, and Kerry really liked his singing those songs, being particularly impressed by Ronnie's improve at end of "...King."

  15. #65
    Lucky Man
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gruno View Post
    Manson was rushed to a New York hospital. Condition unknown.
    That looked ... unpleasant at least. Hope he isn't too badly hurt.

    A few years ago Bill O'Reilly interviewed him, probably trying to score a few cheap baskets but Manson quietly and firmly stood up to him, winning the discussion with quiet sincerity. And newfound respect from me.
    Perhaps finding the happy medium is harder than we know.

  16. #66
    Highly Evolved Orangutan JKL2000's Avatar
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    Yike, hope he's ok.

  17. #67
    Pendulumswingingdoomsday Rune Blackwings's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKL2000 View Post
    Do you buy this at all? I really don't know, but if his career hasn't been all he hoped, I'm thinking it's more that he was just a flash in the pan. Of course (or course!) I've never heard any of his music so I can't say for sure, but I was always so put off by his image I certainly didn't seek out his music. This is all in the context of promoting his new album, of course.

    https://www.theguardian.com/music/20...rd-of-darkness
    He was a "shock" entertainer. They all have short spans of public interest because-surprise to them-shock is a very temporary state. People eventually get over it. If you are shocking without having much to push it along after (talent, originality, a personality), you have no one to blame but yourself.
    "Alienated-so alien I go!"

  18. #68
    Pendulumswingingdoomsday Rune Blackwings's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankh View Post
    That looked ... unpleasant at least. Hope he isn't too badly hurt.

    A few years ago Bill O'Reilly interviewed him, probably trying to score a few cheap baskets but Manson quietly and firmly stood up to him, winning the discussion with quiet sincerity. And newfound respect from me.

    It's not hard to make O'Reilly look like an idiot. He has one shtick and it is to interrupt anyone on the show, regardless of if they agree with him or not, to make himself look like the hard hitting, informed journalist. It got old on me very quickly-like, in one or two episodes.
    "Alienated-so alien I go!"

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